Possibility of a Zebralight High CRI SC63 or SC64

Hi Folks, this is the first thread I am starting on CPF. In several ZL threads throughout this year the topic of a High CRI SC63 has been brought up. Many were expecting such lights to be introduced following the regular SC63 line. But it did not happen. In January ZL announced in private email correspondence these lights were to be introduced as soon as production capacity was there. Recently, however, they told me there were no plans for making a SC63c/d III. Why would ZL skip this option? Is that because of the new Eco line and otherwise limited resources?

Tachead said:

That's one of the great things about Zebralight, lots of emitter options including many in NW and NW hi CRI:thumbsup: On that note... come on ZL, bring us some hand picked 90+ CRI NW XHP35 powered lights:rock:

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Yes, I think we need to convince ZL on making a High CRI SC63(F)c/d. What are your thoughts on this? What would that light have to offer for you to grab it? Which emitter, driver and should there be the new programmable UI? What price would you be ready to pay for a cherry-picked High CRI compact 18650 ZL? Thanks for thoughts and contributions on this topic.

I think a High CRI SC63 would be a real winner light. Ultra compact, EDCable 18650 (I think not much heavier than the SC5). Same optics as the H600Fc/d (great floody, but compact beam), brighter than the SC5Fc/d, much longer runtimes, better mode spacing. SC63Fc/d with 2 or even 1-step McAdam Ellipse (no tint-shift) and two CCT 4000K and 5000K. We have to bug ZL to make this light. I want it, you want it, many people want it. It would be a general interest flashlight, not just some special niche product. Make it programmable and ZL has their 2017 shooting star.

The more I am thinking about it, the more it is getting difficult to understand why they do not do it. In the first place I don't understand why they put the XM-L easywhite emitter into a niche product like the SC5 and not into the SC52. Is it because it would be too difficult to have a boost driver operate from 3,7 and 1,2V? I can't imagine that this would be impossible. Maybe not as efficient, but you are loosing efficiency for High CRI anyway.

Second, they already have all the components they need. Driver of the H600Fc/d, lens of the SC52F/w, reflector and body of the SC63. Cromaticity testing in the 2-step-McAdam Ellipse could be done in parallel with the H600Fc/d line. And done.

I don't know what is keeping them from making this light.

Re: Possibility of a Zebralight High CRI SC63

I'm looking forward to the possibility of SC64Fd/c with XP-L2 high CRI. Or a headlamp equivalent.

Re: Possibility of a Zebralight High CRI SC63

Actually, the clear lensed SC64d/c will do. For a good cherry picked tint which is within 2-step Macadam ellipse, I'm willing to pay $110 ish. 1-step? I can probably go as high as $125, but I'd expect impressive turbo output and stellar runtimes across the board. If this becomes a reality it would be the ultimate EDC light for tint snobs (we thought Plus would be the EDC king but ugh tint problem killed it) but I'll have to feed myself with mud for a while.

Re: Possibility of a Zebralight High CRI SC63

That's right, I didn't think of ZL introducing a whole new SC64 line, including a High CRI variant with XP-L emitter. I also realized that the best tint and CRI of all non-CRI lights that I had is the Astrolux S2 which sports the XP-L HI (dedomed) and is an awesome thrower. I will not get rid of this one.

As to the probably - hopefully - upcoming SC64 High CRI, it will keep more or less the SC 63 body and size. There is not much to improve I would say. Pogo Pins and Battery restriction for High Drain unprotected cells as well - I am OK with that. But I would prefer a frosted lens. It contributes a lot to a smooth beam and for some emitters it is necessary to prevent artifacts (I am not sure about the XP-L though.) How high is it rated CRI-wise?

I had an SC52w and now have an SC52Fw - the improvement of the beam profile and tint quality just by the frosted lens is remarkable. I think even of keeping this light even though it is not High CRI. So for an upcoming SC64 the frosted lens should at least be an option as well as the choice between two color tempartures.

Re: Possibility of a Zebralight High CRI SC63

TCY said:

Actually, the clear lensed SC64d/c will do. For a good cherry picked tint which is within 2-step Macadam ellipse, I'm willing to pay $110 ish. 1-step? I can probably go as high as $125, but I'd expect impressive turbo output and stellar runtimes across the board. If this becomes a reality it would be the ultimate EDC light for tint snobs (we thought Plus would be the EDC king but ugh tint problem killed it) but I'll have to feed myself with mud for a while.

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I am with you on the clear lens, but I think $10 per step is fair enough. $20+ dollars for a LED? They might be able to beat that price, but I am willing to pay $120 for a 1-step Macadam ellipse if it is 5000K.

Re: Possibility of a Zebralight High CRI SC63

low said:

I am with you on the clear lens, but I think $10 per step is fair enough. $20+ dollars for a LED? They might be able to beat that price, but I am willing to pay $120 for a 1-step Macadam ellipse if it is 5000K.

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To effectively cure tint snobbery I think the 1-step is the only way to go. If it is 5000K and has the new programmable UI where I can completely select the 6 levels I want to have on quick access, I am in for 120USD shipped. (No Express mail, I go with free shipping because I have learned to wait for ZL lights to show up on my dorstep some time. They always surprise me and none got ever lost.) By the way, if they find an emitter which makes no artifacts through a clear lens (XP-L High CRI?) I could live with that as well. If neccessary I always could use magic tape on the lens as I am currently with the SC62c.

Re: Possibility of a Zebralight High CRI SC63

I would be in for a high CRI SC63c with a clear lens, orange peel reflector, and a temp around 4000K(no cooler then 4500K). I dont really have a preference on emitters as long as it has a clear lens, decent beam profile(not as floody as a frosted lens), and at least 83-85 CRI like the H600Fc MKIII.

Re: Possibility of a Zebralight High CRI SC63

I'm waiting to see if they offer it with the new 6V Nichia emitters in 5700K R9050 format. I'd also be interested in a 5000K MT-G2 variant. (the last one will probably never happen)

dubliftment said:

The more I am thinking about it, the more it is getting difficult to understand why they do not do it. In the first place I don't understand why they put the XM-L easywhite emitter into a niche product like the SC5 and not into the SC52. Is it because it would be too difficult to have a boost driver operate from 3,7 and 1,2V? I can't imagine that this would be impossible. Maybe not as efficient, but you are loosing efficiency for High CRI anyway.

Second, they already have all the components they need. Driver of the H600Fc/d, lens of the SC52F/w, reflector and body of the SC63. Cromaticity testing in the 2-step-McAdam Ellipse could be done in parallel with the H600Fc/d line. And done.

I don't know what is keeping them from making this light.

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Honestly, I don't know why Zebralight chose the SC5 as the only handheld flashlight for the Easywhites, as this is just DUMB, DUMB, DUMB. Not dumb that they bothered to make it an option for the SC5. But dumb that they refuse to put it in anything else. Let's face it. A light powered by a single NiMH battery is just not a very good choice for a high power 6V emitter. You just can't drive it very hard. And runtime is going to be LOUSY from a single AA at anything resembling decent brightness. I can't say the SC52 would be much better, but at least it offers the possibility of running a higher voltage 14500 for better boost converter efficiency. However, the Easywhite was MADE for an 18650 (or better) light. It really NEEDS both the voltage and capacity of a larger capacity Li-Ion cell tombe worthwhile. The H600 series is proof of that, but there are times when a headlamp is not the best solution. What we REALLY need is an SC63 using the Easywhites. Or if they can do as good (or better) with an XHP, go that route.

Like this other poster said, Zebralight pretty much already has everything in place to build an SC63 with the Easywhite. But they don't. Why not? Stubbornness, maybe? They were aure awfully gung-ho about bringing out all sorts of variants of the SC5, which is ultimately a less than practical light (performance is kind of a joke at maximum brightness, even with the ordinary XM-L2). You would think they would consider an 18650 light with the Easywhite would be more salable.

StorminMatt said:

Honestly, I don't know why Zebralight chose the SC5 as the only handheld flashlight for the Easywhites, as this is just DUMB, DUMB, DUMB. Not dumb that they bothered to make it an option for the SC5. But dumb that they refuse to put it in anything else. Let's face it. A light powered by a single NiMH battery is just not a very good choice for a high power 6V emitter. You just can't drive it very hard. And runtime is going to be LOUSY from a single AA at anything resembling decent brightness. I can't say the SC52 would be much better, but at least it offers the possibility of running a higher voltage 14500 for better boost converter efficiency. However, the Easywhite was MADE for an 18650 (or better) light. It really NEEDS both the voltage and capacity of a larger capacity Li-Ion cell tombe worthwhile. The H600 series is proof of that, but there are times when a headlamp is not the best solution. What we REALLY need is an SC63 using the Easywhites. Or if they can do as good (or better) with an XHP, go that route.

Like this other poster said, Zebralight pretty much already has everything in place to build an SC63 with the Easywhite. But they don't. Why not? Stubbornness, maybe? They were aure awfully gung-ho about bringing out all sorts of variants of the SC5, which is ultimately a less than practical light (performance is kind of a joke at maximum brightness, even with the ordinary XM-L2). You would think they would consider an 18650 light with the Easywhite would be more salable.

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Maybe because most people don't want a flashlight with a frosted lens. That's my guess. I personally have no use for a frosted lens high output flashlight. Maybe for a low powered bedside light. I wonder how bad the beam artifacts would be with a clear lens light using the Easywhite with a strongly orange peeled reflector?

Tachead said:

Maybe because most people don't want a flashlight with a frosted lens. That's my guess. I personally have no use for a frosted lens high output flashlight. Maybe for a low powered bedside light. I wonder how bad the beam artifacts would be with a clear lens light using the Easywhite with a strongly orange peeled reflector?

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But why? The loss in throw between a H600w and Fw or between a SC52 and a SC52F is negliegable. So it would be in a SC63. And what you gain in a flashlight with frosted lens is a seamless transition from spot to spill. Those lights with frosted lenses I mentioned still have some throw to them.

Other thing, by the way, is the Fd Plus. This one is really completely lacking throw and I am wondering why. It must be the size of the emitter combined with a more heavily than normal frosted lens. Hard to believe the Fd Plus has less throw than a H600Fc. That's why I am so keen on an SC63 or SC64c/d with clear lens as well. I am taping most Flashlight lenses anyway except throwers. For examlpe also the Jaxman E2 is gaining in tint and beam quality this way. SC62c would be too throwy without taped lens.

@stormingmatt: I certainly thought about getting a SC5c or d, but I just couldn't for the reasons you stated. this light is just too special. You might enjoy the tint and beam quality, but it has practically no base for general use (lacking brightness and runtime) and it is more chunky than other AA lights.

I have bugged ZL one more time about the prospects of aHigh CRI SC64 or SC53 and will report their reply.

Bad news for a High CRI SC63/64 - They will not make it. Because: "In order to have the PID thermal regulation feature work properly, the LED and the temperature sensor have to be on the same circuit board and be very close in fact. Different LEDs (XM-L2, EasyWhite XM-L, XP-L, or XHP35) require different driver boards and different bodies (because of the unibody design, the potting cavities for driver components are driver specific). With the current EasyWhite LEDs, frosted lens have to be used, which has its limits. We may reevaluate the situation if Cree comes out with an XHP35 in 5000K/4000K, 90+CRI, and in a 3-step MacAdam ellipse (note that the SC600Fd III Plus comes with an XHP50 in 5000K, 90+CRI, and in 3-step MacAdam ellipse)."

dubliftment said:

Bad news for a High CRI SC63/64 - They will not make it. Because: "In order to have the PID thermal regulation feature work properly, the LED and the temperature sensor have to be on the same circuit board and be very close in fact. Different LEDs (XM-L2, EasyWhite XM-L, XP-L, or XHP35) require different driver boards and different bodies (because of the unibody design, the potting cavities for driver components are driver specific). With the current EasyWhite LEDs, frosted lens have to be used, which has its limits. We may reevaluate the situation if Cree comes out with an XHP35 in 5000K/4000K, 90+CRI, and in a 3-step MacAdam ellipse (note that the SC600Fd III Plus comes with an XHP50 in 5000K, 90+CRI, and in 3-step MacAdam ellipse)."

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Bad news. But a lot of what us ZL fanbois like about their lights is the amazing miniaturization, and the heat management. That means unibody design, and the intricate packing of a lot of components into a small space.

Incidentally, when people refer to an "SC64", what do they mean by the 64 as opposed to 63?

For me, SC64 is just a guess how the successor of the SC62 will be called. The SC51 was followed by an SC52, the SC62 by an SC63 and so on. and I figured if they don't make an SC63c/d they might include a High CRI version in the following line-up.

I still don't get it why it works in the H600Fc/d III, but not in the SC63 body. They aren't so different, are they?

Tachead said:

Maybe because most people don't want a flashlight with a frosted lens. That's my guess. I personally have no use for a frosted lens high output flashlight. Maybe for a low powered bedside light. I wonder how bad the beam artifacts would be with a clear lens light using the Easywhite with a strongly orange peeled reflector?

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I don't see why this is an issue. Although there tends to be much hoopla about how far a light can throw, throw is less important to most than you might think. Most people use flashlights for such things as emergency lighting, camping, hiking, fishing, automotive work, etc. For all of these more mainstream uses, flood trumps throw. And a frosted lens would actually be an asset. Admittedly, a frosted lens might not be the best for SAR or law enforcement use. But most people aren't doing these sorts of things. And there are, of course, more suitable lights available.

dubliftment said:

I still don't get it why it works in the H600Fc/d III, but not in the SC63 body. They aren't so different, are they?

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Exactly. As I said before, it sounds like they are just unwilling to build such a light, even if it would be a FAR more satisfactory product than the SC5Fc/d (which I CAN'T imagine being a good seller).

StorminMatt said:

I don't see why this is an issue. Although there tends to be much hoopla about how far a light can throw, throw is less important to most than you might think. Most people use flashlights for such things as emergency lighting, camping, hiking, fishing, automotive work, etc. For all of these more mainstream uses, flood trumps throw. And a frosted lens would actually be an asset. Admittedly, a frosted lens might not be the best for SAR or law enforcement use. But most people aren't doing these sorts of things. And there are, of course, more suitable lights available.



Exactly. As I said before, it sounds like they are just unwilling to build such a light, even if it would be a FAR more satisfactory product than the SC5Fc/d (which I CAN'T imagine being a good seller).

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I own both the H600Fd & c MKIII and although I really like them both, I would not want their beam profiles in flashlight form for anything but maybe a bedside flashlight(pretty much the SC5Fd/c). They are just a bit too floody for flashlight use imo. They are the perfect amount of floody for a headlamp though. I still prefer some kind of defined hotspot in a flashlight. A clear lens flashlight with a nicely orange peeled reflector for a smooth beam transition is the best all around beam for a do it all flashlight imo and many others I would think(thats why you don't see many frosted lens flashlights on the market). That way, you still get a bit of throw even at lower output levels. With the frosted lens models you have to use a super high output level to get even a small amount of throw and then you are ripping through battery power faster then you would have to. Frosted lens flashlights are just best for close to very medium range tasks otherwise they are just inefficient. My preferred setup when out in the woods is my H600Fc/d MKIII combined with a small medium throwy flashlight. And, even for an EDC light I still prefer having a bit of throw for certain tasks.

Moderators, I did not see the "What is Zebralight working on?" thread. Since this here is more or less the same topic, I would not mind merging the threads. So many ZL threads here...