diesel engine trouble

Hello, good advice on diesel engine is needed.

Yesterday it wouldn't start, the starter motor couldn't even turn it a bit. Even though it sounded as it kicked hard enough the engine seemed locked.

Its a perkin 50 hp 4 cyl, old one.

I have a loop under the keel for cooling water, before the last time i had the engine running I stepped on the hose to it so it fell off. I filled up the water again, and ran the engine, it took a long time and full revv to reach 80c. so now i wonder if why it is stuck.

maybe blew a headgasket and its hydrolocked?
try removing glowplugs,injectors ect to relieve the compression and try to turn it.
you do not want to force it till you relieve the compression!
you can also hope the starter is bad and all thats happening is the drive is engaging but not turning.

Injectors you mean the fuel nossle right?
I don't think I have any glowplugs.
It is a perkins 4.108.

I tried to turn, culd not, but I could turn it the other way. some blurping sounds came. Turned some turns backward, hit th starter, wew-wew-tsjuk. locked again. turned more times backward, hit starter, wew-wew-wew-wew-tsjuk. Okay so I just hit the starter a couple times, tsjuk. tsjuk. then, wew-wew-tjuk. so, it was not stuck in one place. i continued with the starter, eventually it went along, only a bit slow... wow it started. limping, then sounding rather normally for a while. then it started making these noises, seemingly coming from the air filter: fst, fst, fst rythmically, i don't remember each revolution or every second or what.
Since I was afraid of ruining it more i stopped it.

Well, should I just run it and see if it gets normal again?

Sounds like (and I mean sounds like because Snap-On Tools doesn't sell crystal balls), you have taken a head gasket that was weeping from the cooling jacket and turned it into a head gasket that is now blown between the cylinders. Now you should see if you can find a reputable local diesel mechanic. Now my next statements are meant to educate and not to scold. You see Ail, water for all intents and purposes is non-compressible and when you cranked on the engine, it had to go somewhere (I of course am assuming that you had water/coolant in at least one cylinder). Please don't operate the engine any further as you already have one problem and now maybe a couple more. Additional problems may be (though unlikely because its a diesel); a bent connecting rod, a cracked piston crown or broken rings. I hope I'm wrong for your sake (see the Snap-On statement) and wish you the best.

Dan
ASE Master Mechanic 1982-2000

guess he didnt read my post in time.
hope you have a trusted mechanic cause you need one now.

dang /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

thanks for the lesson /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Sorry I couldn't warn you sooner. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Dan

Well, count me lucky /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Stubborn ******* as I am, I cranked the engine up today, a little "fst, fst" while starting, but then it came around purring like a cat. I guess no gasket after all? No water has leaked from the coolant tank. My wild guess: could it have been a valve that had got stuck, corroded or something? then later maybe it got stuck in the open position, thus letting air and making the "fst" sound?

happy, happy! Thanks for the help anyway, hope I am not celebrating too soon.

Well, nice to know I'm not the only one who's had this happen. Though, granted in my case it was a bigger engine (Old Leyland engine in an ancient double decker bus we inherited with the old house), I used to run it weekly, always started fine, apart from one day when it did exactly that *Click clunk* Nothing. It was raining at the time so I decided to ignore it for the time being. Went back a week later, hit the starter button and it cranked over, seemed to be running a little rough for a few seconds, but then cleared up - was fine from then on until I sold the thing a couple of years ago.

it was either water or fuel locking it.
i wouldnt drive it antwhere you cant afford to have it towed back from till it is checked out.

Well, this was two years ago+ - and I know for a fact (because I know the guy who bought it), it's been running fine since then. Probably one of the injectors acting up and letting fuel seep into one of the cylinders or something (And I was not trying to get six lots of glow plugs or injectors out which are right down the back of the engine and near impossible to reach at the best of times! in the pouring rain - especially not given that the engine was in what was serving as the world's most fuel inefficient office and shed at the time). Guess this was one of those rare occasions where I got lucky. Hey, I guess 35 year old mechanics like to toy with you now and again!

(And no, I did not forget to put the gear selector to the "S" position for starting...though I did that more times than I can remember in the past...)

Its still worth having the engine checked out, Ail. Like I said, its really hard to diagnose the problem half a world away. The bottom line is......something prevented the engine from turning and that is never good. Call a technician and explain the problem to him. Hopefully he'll have a portable air compressor with him and can run a percent leak test on the engine. In this test, either the injection nozzles or the glow plugs are removed and compressed air is injected into a cylinder at Top Dead Center when both valves are closed. If coolant is forced from the coolant tank or bubbles are noted, the head gasket is leaking and should be repaired before operating the engine further. If not, the technician may proceed to check the injection nozzles for leakage with a device that pressurizes the nozzles (with the nozzles removed from the engine). Beyond that will be his call (of course I'm assuming the technician will be male, I haven't met too many women in the grease pit. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif ). Best of luck to you.

Dan

i wonder if the head warped slightly when he lost cooling and recovered as it cooled?its never good to have a fluid lock of any kind.i can show you some ford 4.6 rods bent like pretzels from hydrolock.
a friend had his cv steaming from the exhaust and kept driving it to work even after i suggested parking it or dig deep to buy a whole motor instead of a gasket job.
yep he forced it with a breaker bar with a pipe extension and it broke it alright!

Well, if this Perkins is anything like the Perkins based engine that Mazda had in their B2200 (1982-1984) pickup truck it is a pretty bullet proof engine. That engine was 2200cc, 4 cylinder and it had 22 head bolts, all torqued to 88 ft./lbs. . In the sixteen years I worked on Mazdas exclusively, I never had to get inside one of them. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif An occasional water pump, broken altenator bracket, burned out glow plugs or worn out injection pumps, but never any top end, timing gear or lower end problems. Most of these engines locally, out lasted the chassis and found new lives in marine applications. I believe that this is the same engine that Ford used in the Ranger pickups (1985-1987?). FYI, it is not uncommon for a head gasket to leak when the engine is cold and the seal as the engine heats up and the parts expand. Later.

Dan

Snake: Good point - whatever it was or is, an inoperable engine could be a lot worse than the price to be towed to harbour as you know.
I agree I should have it checked out, but a lot of expence would not be worth it because I have long been looking for a stronger and or slower engine, a bigger screw and a tube rudder system (around the screw instead of behind it). I think I have gotten a job at a foundry in the meantime, though: should be interesting.

I have been running it for some hours around in nice weather and near people now, it has behaved very well, except it reached 90deg C which it has not done before (or the gauge is flaky). I would like to stop by a mechanic soon though, anyway. It is said to be one of their best models, only it is not very tolerant for high loads. Once I got the ground sanded and greased it starts like a charm every time /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

The thing that puzzles me a bit about the hydro-lock theory is that when I had turned it backwards many times it would turn what seemed like equally many times forward again before it suddenly stopped. It then met the same "wall" again when I tried to start it for a couple of times, then suddenly it would continue for a couple of turns before it suddenly stopped again. Thus it continued a couple of times until no more stops and it finally started, with the "ft" sound.
I am not educated to make any calls about it, just trying to present what happened.
It was cold, the coolant was pretty diluted (bad idea, i know), suppose something had froze?

I appreciate all your ideas.