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Thread: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

  1. #1
    Flashaholic Mercyfulfate1777's Avatar
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    Default Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Hello everyone,
    im installing new leds in some of my old incans (eveready/Rayovac etc) some of them have plastic lenses.would leds be too hot for them? or do i need to come up with glass lenses?
    thanks in advance.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    If you mean the kind you buy in stores, they'll be fine.
    If you mean something like building your own 300 to say 3000 lumen setups... yeah they'll be too much for the stock plastics.
    John 3:16

  3. #3
    Flashaholic Mercyfulfate1777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    bykfixer, you Sir are a wealth of info! thank you.
    Yes the regular rayovac 30-40 lumen leds.

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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Incans send out more heat out the front than a led. Led's also heat up, but they send the heat back, and not out front with the light like incans do. Have not yet seen a led light where the beam is so hot it can set things on fire

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    Flashaholic Mercyfulfate1777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Thank you jorn!

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    ven's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by jorn View Post
    Incans send out more heat out the front than a led. Led's also heat up, but they send the heat back, and not out front with the light like incans do. Have not yet seen a led light where the beam is so hot it can set things on fire


    Thats about to change now


  7. #7
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Cool.
    Still not as effective firestarter as a incan. you can see that the video is in fast forvard, and its cut/edited for some reason at ~30 sek. Maby it took too long?
    Not like this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v29-KEhiAg

  8. #8

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Mercyfullfate1777,
    The previous generation of Malkoff P60 led drop-in modules - the M60 series - used a 'plastic' optic. The highest output in that series, the M60, produced roughly 230 lumens OTF. There is no better P60 led module than a Malkoff. He used a brass housing to draw heat away from the led emitter, but he was comfortable using a 'plastic' optic lens with this particular configuration. I remember hearing that the reason that he no longer uses the same optic is not because of heat issues, but because the optic he was using would have produced beam 'artifacts' (optical flaws) with the emitter he currently uses in the M61 series. I believe that another very high-quality custom P60 led drop-in maker - CPF member 'nailbender' - offers 'plastic' lenses on some of his P60 drop-in emitter options.
    Last edited by novice; 01-08-2017 at 07:58 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Same with all those insanly bright tripple/quad builds with 4x tir optics. Like the 1600 lumen manker e14 etc. The plsatic optics wont melt. Most of the heat that travels with the light passes straight trough.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Sorry...bad info.
    Last edited by lightfooted; 01-09-2017 at 10:55 AM.

  11. #11
    ven's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    I have some quads which must be 3000lm OTF and the plastic optics are fine. Not sure without nipping up stairs if the tk75 has a plastic lens(think it does off the top of my head) and thats kicking out close to 16,000lm and never melted..................and the heat OTF is crazy HOT . You can heat up and burn your hand from 2ft away................That will burn things for sure(although never tried). One of vinhs quads, with xhp35 HI's inside(7000 ish lumens iirc) burns paper/cardboard almost instantly.............that has optics in.

    So plastic lens will not damage plastic lens's afaik.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Those ones op speaks of have soft plastic lenses, not the polycarbonates of today.
    John 3:16

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    ven's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Thanks for the info mr fixer

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    Default

    --> as Jorn has already typed.
    no problem for the front "glass" because led have way less heat in the beam than bulbs

    but the thing is, that You still have to get the heat away from the led, and most of the heat produced goes to the "star" (the led mounting plate).
    If that is not in direct contact with the (metal) housing of the light, You will kill Your mod quite quickly.

    If You lights are plastic housing - and those models sound like:
    * get other ones (from metal),
    * have the led run at low current and mount a metal "thermal plate" as big as possible inside (that will still build up heat, but ...)

    If the mod are "good" output (full power for else XP-G2, or XM-L2) it makes no sense to start with plastic housings because of thermal problems the light(s) will run into
    (Xm-L2 in very short time, XP-G a little longer)
    Last edited by yellow; 01-09-2017 at 12:23 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    i build 10000lm light with plastic tir and lenses over them, no issues whatsoever, in fact i never had any issue with plastic lenses with leds, no mater how bright.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Eh, if in doubt flashlightlens.com will hook you up with inexspensive glass.
    Check'em out.

    I use his 'acrylite' lightly frosted acrylic lenses to really clean up the beam of incans and Maglites.
    Really cleans up the beam with 90%+ light transmission through them.
    John 3:16

  17. #17

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    The plastics used for optics can easily take any temperature that is healthy for an LED. I wouldn't worry about too much heat for a plastic lens from an LED emitter.

  18. #18
    Flashaholic* Timothybil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Shouldn't be a problem. The thing to remember is that an incandescent bulb puts a fair amount of the energy it consumes into infrared radiation as well as the visible light it emits. That infrared is what starts fires and melts lenses. A normal LED produces very little infrared compared to an incandescent bulb. If you notice in the video he puts the paper right up into the face of the flashlight, and he still has to blow on it to get the paper past the smoldering stage. Now, if you had one of the multi-LED high high power setups in a holster that closed over the end of the light, and it got turned on while holstered, you might, I say might, get it hot enough to bubble a plastic lens.
    Remember, Two is One, and One is None!.

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    Flashaholic Mercyfulfate1777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Thanks all for your input, i have been trying to use the rayovac 3-4 cell led in two different lights and it wont come on? i even took theled back to the store and got a replacement thinking that one was bad. not sure whats happeneing.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercyfulfate1777 View Post
    Thanks all for your input, i have been trying to use the rayovac 3-4 cell led in two different lights and it wont come on? i even took theled back to the store and got a replacement thinking that one was bad. not sure whats happeneing.
    I would check the polarity of the lights as some lights have a negative (-) "tip" polarity and most drop in PR base LEDs are positive (+) tip polarity and LEDs are diodes so polarity is a must on most of them although a (rare) few dropins can go be used either polarity.
    As for plastic lenses you aren't going to melt any if you are modding an incan plastic light without doing some really outrageous modding incorporating huge custom made heat sinks or driving the LED very hard without much heatsinking for only a minute or two.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercyfulfate1777 View Post
    Thanks all for your input, i have been trying to use the rayovac 3-4 cell led in two different lights and it wont come on? i even took theled back to the store and got a replacement thinking that one was bad. not sure whats happeneing.
    LEDs...Light Emitting Diodes, are polarized components. They only work when conducting in one direction, they have to be connected specifically the negative side of the LED to the negative terminal of the power source. It could also be that your cells are not providing the proper voltage for it to work. Either they are not as good as you think or they are too low voltage. It could also be that the electrical path is not good enough to power it due to corrosion or oxidation.

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    Flashaholic ProCharger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by jorn View Post
    Incans send out more heat out the front than a led. Led's also heat up, but they send the heat back, and not out front with the light like incans do. Have not yet seen a led light where the beam is so hot it can set things on fire
    I can light newspaper on fire in about 15 seconds using one of my lights. I made a quick video for any doubters.

    https://youtu.be/Gxo3iKGkDo0

  23. #23
    Flashaholic Mercyfulfate1777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    thanks for all the input!Yea im trying to drop these leds in old Captains and Sportsmans. not working so im using Xenon drop ins and they do work.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercyfulfate1777 View Post
    thanks for all the input!Yea im trying to drop these leds in old Captains and Sportsmans. not working so im using Xenon drop ins and they do work.
    To be honest the low current of these dropins give you such an insane amount of runtime that IMO you are better to buy a nice 2AA incan light and a 2 cell LED dropin and use it instead and save on batteries as a normal incan bulb can run for almost a day in one an LED probably 4-5 days continuously or more.
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    Flashaholic Mercyfulfate1777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Thanks again Lynx! i was tring to update if you will some of my old incan lights but for the life of me can not get the led drop ins to work, oh well ill just use the Xenon bulbs.Makes them a little brighter.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercyfulfate1777 View Post
    Thanks again Lynx! i was tring to update if you will some of my old incan lights but for the life of me can not get the led drop ins to work, oh well ill just use the Xenon bulbs.Makes them a little brighter.
    Most likely the center contact of the lantern is on the negative terminal so you would have to resort to trickery to get it to work by soldering a wire to the center contact and running it to the positive terminal and taping over the contact where the center spring presses against the contact then running the side connection on the bulb to the negative (non- center) terminal instead of the positive (center) one.
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  27. #27
    Flashaholic Mercyfulfate1777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Thanks again Lynx! I also noticed your in Tulsa, im in Norman.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    What particular light is it that won't work?
    John 3:16

  29. #29

    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mercyfulfate1777 View Post
    Thanks again Lynx! I also noticed your in Tulsa, im in Norman.
    I hope you aren't sliding around there. We got some ice but not much on the roads perhaps a few bridges as it didn't get quite cold enough here. I have an old rayovac incan lantern with a 4D-6v lantern battery adapter that is still sporting an incan bulb. I got rid of another 2 6v lanterns when I found a cheap 3AA LED light had more than enough runtime with a little more output.
    I also have 2 2D incan lights converted to LED one is a swivel head rayovac the other a rayovac roughneck and haven't used either to speak of since I converted them instead I use AA and 18650 LED lights.

    For the price of these dropins you should just put that money towards a new LED lantern like in this thread here.
    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...ern-(EVFL45SH)
    Fenix Split rings 1400+ sent, SWIVELS now available also!
    Psalm 112:4 Light shines in the darkness for the godly. They are generous, compassionate, and righteous.

  30. #30
    Flashaholic Mercyfulfate1777's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are Leds too hot for plastic lenses?

    bykfixer,
    im bought a few of the RayOVac 3-4 cell led bulbs and was trying to install them in some old incan, like a couple of my 3 cell Sportsmans and a couple of my Captains and even a 3 cell Eveready HD Safetly flashlight and the leds dont work in any of them?


    Lynx,
    No sliding here just a little wet. I think the Oklahoma weather people missed the mark a little. Thats ok though, i hate ice storms and hail, it messes things up pretty bad. I have several led lights, (Olight,Nitecore,Fenix,Eagletac etc) so im allrite with those but being an older guy,lol i was wanting to upgrade some of my old incans from back in the day and some ive bought along the way.

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