Some colour temperature help please.

styks

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Dec 11, 2012
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Hello everyone,
I joined this forum a good while ago, just checked, 4 years ago, damn how time flies!

I've just got more interested again, it's always been there but other things took over, too many hobbies/interests.

I've just sold my SR95 with the intention of buying a smaller light. The searching/ researching has started me off again, wow how things have moved on. 7000lm / 9000lm pop cans, mega throwers now shooting past 1000m, it appears an exciting time for flashlight enthusiasts.

Anyhow, I ended up buying what I thought was a sensible flashlight for most of my needs, the Thrunite TN35. It's a good light IMO, then I thought why not play a bit! .... Started looking at throwers, then i discovered Vinh. After a couple of emails asking his advice I put my sensible head on again, after almost pre-ordering a TN42vn, and bought a U21vn XPG2 PDTc. so I can get an idea what all this light throwing business is about. Must admit I'm somewhat excited waiting for its arrival.

Back to my title, colour temperature, and yes I've spelt it correctly! :p .......

As I said to Vinh, I like to light up deer and wildlife at night and take a pic with my spotting scope / camera arrangement.
Deer look quite interesting in a spot light if I get it right, so I wanted a light to help represent the correct colours, to increase contrast and definition. Cool white, which I think i tried once, makes it a little more difficult and has to be corrected as best one can in post process. I thought I should have neutral white and he agreed.
I do fancy one of his TN40SVN but can't stretch to it yet so thought I'd go and buy stock and if required he could work his fluence upon it later on.

I've been doing much reading and searching trying to get my head around the Cree led data sheet but I can't connect it with the TN40 NW, I haven't found enough info on the Thrunite site which tells me which XP-L HI Nuetral white it is exactly, I'm guessing 5000k but unsure? .... There's so much to learn, I'm cramming but my old brain doesn't soak up as well as it used to.

I'd appreciate some guidance from you kind folks.

I've not found a comparison, TN40 CW to TN40 NW beam shots. I've found others using what I think is the same emitter, some making me think yes I'll get NW, Then I see another and I wonder, I know the camera can't give accurate representation of what the eye sees and how each camera deals with white balance differs, also if set manually is it set correctly to the scene.
One chap showed a comparison in a snow covered scene and the NW emitter looked damned awful compared to CW. I know why of course, and guessed before he even turned on the NW emitter what might happen.

So after all my waffle, and reintroducing myself, ..... I'm thinking a TN40S NW, plenty throw to spotlight them on the mountain side and enough spill so I can get around without falling off a cliff!
Plus the picture should be closer to natural, more contrast and better defined.
I also have an interest in the deer movement around here.

Now I'm no expert here but I'm going to get involved again later this year in SAR, plenty idiots up the mountains here and some unfortunate souls also. Most are jumping up and down waving thier arms as soon as they see a light, unfortunately some are unconscious or immobile and I'm thinking NW may actually be better in that situation, giving more contrast and more accurate colour definition?
Oh and it can be misty,/ low cloud, I think NW cuts through it better?

5000k, is a tad too warm really, depending. 5300k - 5700k would be even better, how do I know what it is if they don't list the numbers and all emitter info. ..... Am I stuffed, pays yer money and takes yer pick?

Ok guys, sorry for the lengthy one, if you didn't give up halfway through please give me your thoughts and advice.

Cheers! ...Styks.
 

staticx57

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You can buy a neutral white Olight X7 for $199 on kaidomain right now. That is a great light. I would caution going too cool without going high CRI. Colors tend to get rendered WRONG versus without saturation with low CRI neutral white.
 

KITROBASKIN

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It is annoying when manufacturers/vendors and users/reviewers call a colour temperature 'neutral'. That could be anywhere from 4000K to 5700K or worse. Vinh can tell you what he uses and others, including some manufacturers and vendors... Stick with them. Saving some money to get a lousy bin neutral is just not worth it.
 

OttaMattaPia

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Dec 3, 2016
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Still the OP was not actually answered.

IS there a way to tell what color / temperature LED you're buying? ie from the specific pill or LED type etc...

The answer is probably "no", but I think that's what he was specifically asking?
 

LeanBurn

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I have not seen any manufacturer provide the pedigree of the LED they use even when asked. There are a very small amount of people concerned with this and so it isn't provided to front line staff or marketing. Unless it is a higher CRI light they have no idea what the CRI the lights are. The engineers are probably the only ones in the know.
 

ven

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The xpl HI 5000k is real nice, i have this flavour in quite a few forms. It is the cool side of neutral and would say not warm. Now the 4000k xpl HI is towards the warm side of neutral, this is also a nice temp (subjective). 5000k should give you pretty accurate rendition, no colours jumping out, just similar to what you would see in day light(yes a variable depending on day time, but to keep simple).

The tn35 which you have is a 5000k MT-G2, so although to my eyes it looks a different temp/tint to the 5000k HI led, they should give similar colour representation.

Away from the HI's, the nichia 219c is available in a few flavours, 4000/5000/5700k off top of my head, all with 80+ cri(5700k 90+). You can buy drop ins(p60's) from kaidomain for around $8 or so(as well as the xpl HI's in 4500k etc etc). Cheap way of trying out some different flavours..............

Being very subjective, it is hard to say a specific one as we all have a preferences and little subtle taste's . But i would say 5000k is a safe choice, for ones who prefer slightly warm and cool...........in the middle.
 

twistedraven

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Oct 22, 2014
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It's going to be a little hard trying to get a very powerful thrower that good color rendering abilities. On a lot of Vinh's throwers, he purposefully dedomes the LED to maximize the amount of throw the lights put out. By dedoming the LEDs, the tint of the LEDs (no matter their color temperature), will tend towards the green side. Vinh does cherrypick each dedomed LED for the least amount of green, but compared to a good color rendering emitter, they will still look green.

That U21vn XPG PDT will not render colors of deer that well, but it will throw quite a ways with an intense hotspot for its size.


Getting exact LED information out of vendors will be hard as well, only very few vendors care enough to tell you the CRI (color rendering index) ratings and color temperature ratings of their lights-- companies such as Zebralight or Eagletac for instance, do offer more options with higher CRI emitters with good, balanced color temperatures.

I think the best option would be to get a light sporting an XHP-35 HI emitter with a color temperature of 4500k. I bought 3 Zebralight SC600 MKIII HI lights and kept the best of the three with the least green to it, and let me tell you it's a beautiful quality of light that it puts out that nearly rivals a Nichia.


If you were wanting to illuminate deer and outdoor vegetation as if they were under midday sunlight, you would have to get something in the 5700k color temperature range, but you would want to stick with anything with high CRI (90+), and get one with the least amount of green to their tint. Nichias are good at staying on the black body radiation curve with the least amount of tint variation, while high CRI Cree emitters tend to be all over the place, so you would have to cherrypick one with the least green.


Lastly, in my book, anything from 4000k-6000k could be considered neutral most of the time when viewed by itself. However, everything is relative, so one light will always be cooler/warmer than another when it's compared to that, and vice-versa.
 

jon_slider

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welcome back
so far you have investigated the concept of color temperature
the Neutral White LEDs Thrunite and Zebralight use, tend to be around 4500k of yellow tinted light, that is still LOW CRI, about 75 CRI

I suggest you now add Color Rendering Index (CRI) to your criteria
heres a range, 65 CRI is very low, common in Cool white, Neutral white in the Thrunite and Zebras is about 4500K and 75 CRI. Nichia LEDs are famous for their color rendering and are available in 4000-4500k Neutral white with 90+ CRI..

There are some Nichias with 90+CRI that are over 5000k CCT (corrected color temperature).. see below

There are also a couple Zebralights that have 90+CRI @ 5000k
look here

If you were wanting to illuminate deer and outdoor vegetation as if they were under midday sunlight, you would have to get something in the 5700k color temperature range, but you would want to stick with anything with high CRI (90+), and get one with the least amount of green to their tint. Nichias are good at staying on the black body radiation curve with the least amount of tint variation, while high CRI Cree emitters tend to be all over the place, so you would have to cherrypick one with the least green.

really good post!


here is an example of a Nichia over 5000k color temperature, and still over 90 CRI
pic is a link to an excellent review
maukka said:

here is the tint plot, notice the tint is in the magenta region, below the BBL. This is a much better direction to vary, than above the BBL where green and yellow live. IMO Nichia tends to vary below the BBL, the competition tends to vary above the BBL.. (all generalizations stink :))
maukka said:
OM6coV4.png

bear in mind the Jaxman uses PWM on low modes, but if you only illuminate deer with high mode, there should be no PWM interference with your photos


as a point of interest, HDS sells a light for observing (not photgraphing) deer. HDS Game Illuminator
 
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bykfixer

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Have you tried tweaking the white balance of your camera to allow the sensor to interpolate the kelvin of the light source vs what the sensor deems correct kelvin value?

I don't mean an auto setting like cloudy day or flourescent auto setting. But one where a color temperature meter like those from sekonic and then tailor the internal settings you have to hunt way down deep in the menu.

Wildlife photos can be very rewarding yet very frustrating.
It aint like animals keep a predictable schedule. They eat, they sleep, they pro-create all while attempting to survive. Action happens quickly so proper settings are required before you push the shutter.

Some sensors are really sensitive to the brights due to trying to get shadows correct. Sometimes even with color balance set perfect the photo looks dry or dull due to the light source 'washing out' the mid range colors. EV or Gamma settings may help there.

If you are using a 'digi-cam' setup where a point n shoot is threaded onto mega lenses like a spotter, try those internal auto settings like "sports" or "birthday". You'll be surprised at some of the outcomes.
 
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