Steel pie pan

Quick question: Do disposable steel pie pans exist? I remember steel tinfoil in the 70s, then everything shifted to aluminium shortly there after, if I recall correctly. . I wonder, if true, and why.

The flash light related reason (tangent) is below, however, hardly worth reading :

I have home made about a 10 to a dozen wearable 2sx18650 based on the infinitely dimmable buckpuck 700, since I believe firmly on no more than 359ma per 3400ma (3200ma above 3v) protected Panasonic. The dimming allows me full 12+hour workdays and set workers lights at up to 3 days between charging, occasionally necessary.

Carrying-daily in a bookbag- 3 lights minimum and some spares. I have not yet got enough fireproof bags to house each individual light/extra holder separately.

I ruled out steel foil as it is too expensive. And I don't see disposable steel pie pans. . I would think steel is cheaper, higher heat. . Maybe flash rusts too easily.

What do you want the thin steel for?

Closest I've seen is nickel plated serving trays in dollar stores, similar to https://www.dollartree.com/Party-Su...al-Serving-Trays/574c511c530p340777/index.pro

We sell disposable pie pans. Aluminum products haven't been actual tin for nearly a century, just a language holdover.

Edit: Reading through your description again, it sounds like you want a material for better thermal properties - but aluminum has much better thermal properties than steel, you would only use steel for strength (that's why wadding good ol' Reynolds Wrap and packing it into the head of your Maglite works as a makeshift heatsink.) Rolled Al is exponentially cheaper than rolled steel too; the $3 roll of foil at the store would be ~$100 if it were steel alloy.

If aluminum wasn't flammable, had low melting point, we could just foil wrap your plastic (extremely flammable) rear 2x18650 battery pack in foil. . Throw 3 or 4 in a tote bag, go to work and crew blast light all day. . Now, I can get a steel toolbox, but realistic weight and lamp separation is a reality. Also, bulk gained is an issue.

My charger bags came. . Looks like merely fiberglass, flammability glued to a rubber, and sewn by nylon thread. . Looks totally inferior to my conceived two pieces of fiberglass covered and sandwiching in fire proof elastomeric caulking with stapled seams. But youtube shows the charger bag works well enough, if just barely. . I am unwilling to test with real 18650 overcharging, but can use butane and propane torch test to reproduce, very roughly, the kind of fire I see 18650 capable of producing.

Dollar tree aluminum foil is disturbingly flammable. Fireproof caulk coated aluminum foil and aluminum flashing holds up to a blow torch well. Fiber glass and aluminum melt very quickly under a blow torch: fiberglass instantly and aluminum melts in under 8 seconds. The low melting point of fiberglass and aluminum flashing makes them squirrely, even when fireproof caulking coated.

Steel foil, if available and cheap would be way to go. . So will swing by the dollar tree to pick up the suggested plates to checkout the material properties and possible uses. . I need some high quality plastic butter knives as a 18650 battery removal tool from my 18650 holders. . We have been removing our protected cells, wedged into the poorly designed Chinese holders on lamp, with metal objects. . Because protected, we have got away with it for last 2 years. Then I watched a trust fires shorted and exploded this very way on youtube, single metal touching positive terminal and briefly bridging the hair gap to the cell negative bidy. Naturally the cell plastic had been cutoff, not unlike breaches that inevitably open up in the real world.

Also got my inch squared battery free, Volt meter. Will ribbon tie these and plastic knives to my home and work charging areas, as the mm isn't always around or working. . They work fine for protected cells. Voltage accurate above 4v volt, inaccurate below 4, and can tell me which cell circuit tripped. . Overcharging, not likely on my smart charger or with my protected cells, but possibly fatal or property damage, if occurs. Overcharging is not an option, even when changing in metal cookie tin.

Fiberglass melts at 370C, aluminum 660C, Nickel 1550C, I assume steel so high that I neglect to look up. . I was shocked at epoxy low melting point. . A flame is around 1000C. Though, in practice, you cannot melt fiberglass with a mere butane lighter, probably due to heat dissipation rate. . Also, silicone caulking is crazy flammable (1&2), while manufactured silicone will burn, form a char layer, then stop further burn. See youtube videos of campfire tin cup handle test for Sugru made handles.

Wow: Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

Interesting, since I did several minutes of propane torch test on galvanized steel (corner of thin flashing), with no sign of melting. . I am confident the propane torch is hotter than an 18650 venting. Though it's likely hotter than a butane flame.

Though I suppose it comes down to heat dissipation rate, and how big the flame is. IE how much heat over xx seconds.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/flame-temperatures-gases-d_422


I think it safe to say 1000C is the number to beat, to be safe. Even if overkill with 18650 fire. 2200C is bullet proof number. Youtube welding test show fiberglass blankets suck, while stepping up to a bit better blanket does wonders.

Though I probably would thinly coat my fiberglass with fireproof caulking, before discarding. Simply based on my blow torch tests.

StarHalo said:

Rolled Al is exponentially cheaper than rolled steel too; the $3 roll of foil at the store would be ~$100 if it were steel alloy.

Click to expand...

I wonder why. Do you know why? . I can only think that zero demand, folded all mass manufacture. And some poor soul is hand pounding sheet metal into foil somewhere on the globe for $2 a day, for the rare steel foil order.

Ah, you're trying to build something to withstand a Li-ion jet - that will take quite a feat of engineering since it hasn't been done yet. We know from the MH370 thread that a venting Li-ion cruises at about 1400F without being slowed by fire suppressants, so how you'd contain that in something you could carry would be pretty impressive..

StarHalo said:

Ah, you're trying to build something to withstand a Li-ion jet - that will take quite a feat of engineering since it hasn't been done yet. We know from the MH370 thread that a venting Li-ion cruises at about 1400F without being slowed by fire suppressants, so how you'd contain that in something you could carry would be pretty impressive..

Click to expand...

Isolation.

See youtube charging bag test. . I think the semantic confusion is how many cells will go at one time. . Ideally each cell needs to be isolated from neighboring cells, to avoid thermal cascade. Isolating cells.


Silicon welding blankets 2800F. Ceramic blankets do more. Welders drips some hot stuff. Tests are on youtube.

My goal, only need to suppress one cell from trigger others. Based on youtube, looks like 30 seconds of big flame jet per cell. You say 1400C, if steel is 1500C, can add entumescent insulating fire barrier. Compare that with fiberglass charging bag.

Anyway, I am looking for a step up in safety. A practical, step.

degarb said:

Wow: Iron, out of the ground, melts at around 1510 degrees C (2750°F). Steel often melts at around 1370 degrees C (2500°F).

Interesting, since I did several minutes of propane torch test on galvanized steel (corner of thin flashing), with no sign of melting. . I am confident the propane torch is hotter than an 18650 venting. Though it's likely hotter than a butane flame.

Click to expand...

Have you heard of Nomex? It's what Firefighter coats are made of, partially anyway. Fire resistant material. If you want a container that will easily contain any possible venting of multiple lights why not just make a case out of fire bricks? Have individual cells for each light. You could even make it from a mix of plaster of paris and sand to mold them specifically to each light. Of course you'll want to take into account that each light is essentially a pipe bomb if the battery chamber is not vented.

You can even buy Nomex on Amazon.

After reading through it again I think you'd be better off just making a hard protective case and using refractory bricks or castable cement for the individual cells.

lightfooted said:

Have you heard of Nomex? It's what Firefighter coats are made of, partially anyway. Fire resistant material. If you want a container that will easily contain any possible venting of multiple lights why not just make a case out of fire bricks? Have individual cells for each light. You could even make it from a mix of plaster of paris and sand to mold them specifically to each light. Of course you'll want to take into account that each light is essentially a pipe bomb if the battery chamber is not vented.

You can even buy Nomex on Amazon.

After reading through it again I think you'd be better off just making a hard protective case and using refractory bricks or castable cement for the individual cells.

Click to expand...

https://youtu.be/Y7yVqY-z3fY

Aramid felt only has melting point of 375F. Lower than fiberglass, silicone.

I just took propane blow torch to my brand new 18650 charging bag. The fiberglass withstood blow torch for 5 seconds then outside of bag caught fire, grew, had to use extinguisher. Conversely they work well in real 18650 meltdowns.

I made a 2 part borate (boric acid and borax) to 1 part waterborne silicone polyurethane elastomeric caulk. Sandwich between 2fiberglass cloths 2mm thick, lightly coat outside. . Holds up well to blow torch, very insular, thermally. . Did same with two sheets of aluminium foil. . Together, tested over a minute with blow torch with palm of hand behind.

Watched scores of exploding 18650 videos. Over charging, shows a bomb. Fortunately easy to avoid with cell protection, smart chargers and voltage monitoring with dmm. . Then, all short and stove top videos show a scarey Roman candle that is intense for 30 seconds, but no molten lithium leaking or spewing out. . Also, they don't burn through these fiberglass bags, as would molten lithium.

I think you can improve on the charging bag or your acrylic coated fiberglass welding blanket. This evidence shows.

Steel foil would be great, if existed. Have not made it to dollar tree for nickel plated steel pie pan. Knowing that store, probably thin.

This Starlite polymer guy just died with his secret. He was so guarded with formula that he failed to get it to market, refused to let defense use it. He did mention adding ceramics to the polymers.... Plaster of Paris properties?

Steel foil absolutely exists, your choice of thickness even, you just have to pay for it..

Durability of the thin metal is more an issue, due to higher price. Though fiberglass backed, adhered with some polymer, maybe. . Still too much trouble to test, for me. One look at price. Now, if I had some.

I want to test sodium silicate and other additive. https://www.google.com/patents/US8344055
Found in a fertilizer.

We sell a container that I guarantee you can not only live through a Li-ion discharge, but can withstand small arms fire too; only $27.

degarb said:

Fiberglass melts at 370C, aluminum 660C, Nickel 1550C, I assume steel so high that I neglect to look up. . I was shocked at epoxy low melting point. . A flame is around 1000C. Though, in practice, you cannot melt fiberglass with a mere butane lighter, probably due to heat dissipation rate. . Also, silicone caulking is crazy flammable (1&2), while manufactured silicone will burn, form a char layer, then stop further burn. See youtube videos of campfire tin cup handle test for Sugru made handles.

Click to expand...

I don't know where you got the melting point for fiberglass, but it ain't 370c.

When you do aerial fiber weight of fiberglass parts, you use a muffler furnace @1800f to burn off the resin. Fiberglass melting point is 1121c.

If looking for a product that will withstand 2000f, look no further than aircraft ablative products.
Lockheed Martin sells MI-15, a silicone, milled fiberglass, and micro balloon product. Also, MI-15 top coat.

Amazon sells turbo charger blankets that live at 2000f reflective heat. Also a fiberglass heat tape used on motor cycle exhaust systems.

RTV products like RTV106, RTV560, and Dapco 2200 are all certified for aircraft fire resistance tests. 15 minutes @2000f powered by a injected oil burner.

NoNotAgain said:

I don't know where you got the melting point for fiberglass, but it ain't 370c.

When you do aerial fiber weight of fiberglass parts, you use a muffler furnace @1800f to burn off the resin. Fiberglass melting point is 1121c.

If looking for a product that will withstand 2000f, look no further than aircraft ablative products.
Lockheed Martin sells MI-15, a silicone, milled fiberglass, and micro balloon product. Also, MI-15 top coat.

Amazon sells turbo charger blankets that live at 2000f reflective heat. Also a fiberglass heat tape used on motor cycle exhaust systems.

RTV products like RTV106, RTV560, and Dapco 2200 are all certified for aircraft fire resistance tests. 15 minutes @2000f powered by a injected oil burner.

Click to expand...

Holy craft! Those are some great suggestions. Unfortunately, my work lights don't make me $1000 a day. . So, like competing the lawyers dollars for ad space, these products seem out of my league, price wise. . The Lockheed product, could not get an online price. Fortunately, there is a Lockheed compound here in town. Though I am pretty sure I would be shot trying to enter the area. Crashed ufo's and dead aliens are routinely found near the Springfield area, but they claim they are merely crashed Goodyear blimps. Maybe I am wrong, either about they price, the clandestine probing or kidnappings, or about the gauge of ammunition that Lockheed uses on the visitors. Or maybe not.

The two part silicone rtv mentions less off gassing in a vacuum. . I wonder how that relates to flammability. Single component silicone caulking, found in building supply, is very flammable. . Also, high heat paint burns well. . So high heat, may not mean flame resistance.

Silica (not silicone) welder blankets are undeniably, likely the best material for charger, 18650 firewall material, 2800F. But priced too high. . Carbon Felt welder blankets seem to flame test better than fiberglass, which melt in tests. https://youtu.be/O3eAPxmgzDM
I don't understand, yet, the chemistry behind the carbon felt.

In aircraft engine fire suppression systems, systems that use spray on thermal protection, you've got two choices, intumescent and ablative. Intumescent coatings puff up exposed to high heat, while ablatives char the surface then slowly erode away.

The RTV560 product is very pricey and does not out-gas at temperature, provided you fully cure before hand. Rvt106 is a single part silicone and can be found at places like Krayden, Graco Supply, Aircraft Spruce and Ellisworth adhesives.

Your cheapest option is to go to Amazon and look at the turbo blankets they sell, as most are available for under $40. Otherwise, the header wrap and a retention devise, sort of like curtain rods to hold in place.

The spray on thermal coatings are losing out to thermal blankets since they don't require re-application when repairs are required. They do contain a silica type product inside faced with an embossed stainless steel foil.

I still think you should just make a case out of refractory bricks or plaster and sand...then it would be more than capable of withstanding a battery venting but you could carry it however you like. The big advantage about using either of those two is that you can buy them from Home Depot.