Zebralight SC5 MKII

ktsl

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Looks interesting:
SC5c Mk II $69 Cree XP-L CRI 93-95 spill + spot 14 modes 400+lm 0.8 hrs, due in 2017 (i.e. Dec. 31 2017?)
 
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night.hoodie

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Where is this info from?

Edit : ah. Found out it. Hope they slimmed the body down but I doubt it.

For others, here is the source

Happy to hear about this! That spec says a lot of lumen (400+) for AA format plus hi CRI. I will be waiting in anticipation for it to be released and immediately unavailable, sold out, and on backorder eternally, when I try to purchase. It happens nearly every time, so expect it to happen, ZebraLight, and realize that running out of inventory is bush league and reduces your profits.

I realize it doesn't bother most, but I can only hope ZebraLight decides to upgrade their drivers to unequivocal, undeniable and true constant current, and leaves their PWM-like step-pulsing behind. At that point, I don't think there will be any way anyone could disagree ZebraLight has an absolutely perfectly designed and perfectly implemented flashlight. That's all anyone wants... is it asking too much?
 

StorminMatt

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And bring back 14500 compatibility. Zebralight had a good thing going as far as this with the SC52. Doing away with it in the SC5 was a HUGE step backward, and resulted in a FAR less usable high mode. Li-Ion capability also means better charging on the go.
 

Fireclaw18

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Looks interesting:
SC5c Mk II $69 Cree XP-L CRI 93-95 spill + spot 14 modes 400+lm 0.8 hrs, due in 2017 (i.e. Dec. 31 2017?)

Nice!

But I think when they say "due in 2017" they really mean "maybe by Dec 31, 2018, unless we decide to cancel it"
 

night.hoodie

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And bring back 14500 compatibility. Zebralight had a good thing going as far as this with the SC52. Doing away with it in the SC5 was a HUGE step backward, and resulted in a FAR less usable high mode. Li-Ion capability also means better charging on the go.

I wouldn't be against it, but I understand the silent argument that 14500 compatibility is superfluous in ZebraLight (but not other brands). ZL uses regulation, and limits top brightness. The dual-chem compatible SC52 is the exception to the rule, in that with 14500, the brightest level was given a boost. But isn't the SC5 top level on AA brighter than the SC52 on 14500? So why would you expect ZL to open the glorious doors of brightness just because you have given it more voltage? Seems to me, ZL likes consistency over brightness.

So consider that even if the SC5 was compatible with 14500, the light would operate exactly the same as on AA, with identical regulated mode brightnesses between the chemistries, but with less runtime and more inherent safety risk with 14500. This isn't necessarily the case, this is just an extrapolation of ZebraLight's mode level ideology, and it seems clear to me, you would not be wowed with 14500 in an SC5.
 
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Fireclaw18

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...But isn't the SC5 top level on AA brighter than the SC52 on 14500? So why would you expect ZL to open the glorious doors of brightness just because you have given it more voltage? ...

That was back then.

Today, lights from other manufacturers can output 900 lumens on 14500 and still run on AA if needed. There's a pretty huge difference between 400 lumens and 900 lumens. Not supporting and allowing for better output on 14500 is one feature that makes Zebralight inferior to the competition.

That said, I haven't been too impressed with Zebralight's support for lithium ion cells. Starting with my SC52w just about every Zebralight I've owned that supports lithium ion has had a major problem: They simply refuse to stay in turbo mode. Even on a fresh quality IMR cell they typically don't stay in turbo mode for more than 5 seconds or so, then they immediately step down to lower modes. None of my lights from other manufacturers have this problem when using the same cells.

I've experienced this with:
SC52w
SC32w
SC62
SC62w

I do not have this problem with:
SC63w
SC600w Mk III HI
 
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jon_slider

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I can only hope ZebraLight decides to upgrade their drivers to unequivocal, undeniable and true constant current, and leaves their PWM-like step-pulsing behind.

I agree.

here is an SC52 on Low 1
32489842195_7ae754fc63_c.jpg


I do think the next SC5 has a positive improvement in CRI

Max lumens for 1 minute does not impress me. An AA battery cannot do more than 150 lumens for long. Zebras have great features, but I would not buy one for the Turbo feature.. there needs to be other reasons that would make me buy a light that has "noise", even if its not officially called PWM.
 
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night.hoodie

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That was back then.

Today, lights from other manufacturers can output 900 lumens on 14500 and still run on AA if needed. There's a pretty huge difference between 400 lumens and 900 lumens. Not supporting and allowing for better output on 14500 is one feature that makes Zebralight inferior to the competition.

I believe this is a bit of unsupported handwaving, and I'd like to explore it.

First of all, I want to reiterate what I have already posted, that Li-ion in an SC5 is superfluous, not because ZL could not design a driver that is capable of more lumens with Li-ion, but that by now we have a predictive model of behavior from ZL, and that model of their ideology clearly favors consistency in their driver interface across the product models. This is not a bad idea, and their success is admirable, as having consistent interface and consistent brightnesses and consistency everywhere you look at their products is unmatched in the industry, as far as I'm aware. In this regard, ZebraLight seems to stand alone.

Your post doesn't offer any competition for ZebraLight by name for direct comparison. Regarding specifically the SC5 stepdown from Turbo, there is only so much one can expect from an Eneloop, amazing and beloved as they are. I am unaware of any other light by any other maker that has achieved 500+lm output from an AA cell and has regulated constant brightness of that 500+lm before the Turbo steps down. Most other competition that I am aware of may breach 500lm with an AA cell, but the brightness only stays there for seconds, dimming immediately. After three minutes, when SC5 steps down, there is no other AA light from other makers that is even close to 500lm. And this is usually true of the dual chem models, that while the higher voltage cell gives higher lumens, the lumen output doesn't stay put, and starts dropping immediately, and as you point out, often they also have step down after a few minutes.

I'm sure some members remember when vinhnguyen54 got his hands on the SC600 w/ XHP35, and everyone was expecting he would do what he always does, make a light 4 to 10 times brighter. I believe he has had success with another ZebraLight model in increasing voltage and output, but in that particular thread, while he was successful getting inside of the ZL (which is no small triumph), he only praised ZL design and engineering, and in the end, decided he couldn't make it brighter enough to make it worth offering the mod.

I think this last point stands in stark contrast to your suggestion that ZebraLight is inferior for not offering Li-ion in their SC5 models, and your unsupported inferrence ("That was back then") that anyone else could do better, or is doing better today. ZebraLight isn't holding back, and Vinh's experience supports this: they are cutting edge. And it is clear other manufacturers are not putting any emphasis on consistency of interface or regulated constant brightness of the modes across their models. If the competition has a model that accepts both chemistries, the modes and brightness levels are not consistent between the chemistries nor their other models. And many of them are not doing anything much of note even with Li-ion drivers, but often still lack advancements standard in ZebraLight such as low voltage protection for their Li-ion models.

If you want a flashlight that takes both chems, has no low voltage protection nor regulated output nor interface consistency, and stays in a mode without stepdown no matter the state of your cell, along with the heat effects and eventual damage to its own driver, I bet you don't have to look too hard to find them, nor pay too much to own them.

That isn't ZebraLight's bag. They are doing something else, and it still isn't clear at all, because you offer no examples, that ZL is inferior for leaving Li-ion support out of the SC5. Let's see these superior duel chemistry competitors to the SC5, then we can decide if they are in fact superior, or just cheap crap, which is my suspicion.
 
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Connor

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re: PWM and Zebralights

There is ZERO visible PWM (to the human eye) in recent Zebralights, so don't let yourself be alienated about this brand by the above discussion.
There are, however, people with a somewhat exaggerated dislike of PWM on CPF.
 
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chillinn

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re: PWM and Zebralights

There is ZERO visible PWM (to the human eye) in recent Zebralights, so don't let yourself be alienated about this brand by the above discussion.
There are, however, people with a somewhat exaggerated dislike of PWM on CPF.

Also, Carbon Monoxide cannot be seen, so don't worry about it! Breathe easy, friend. Bullets move so fast you can't see them, so there is no way they could harm anyone!! Frigid temperatures can't be seen, so something else must have killed those people during the last winter storm. You can't see cancer, not without some special scientific instruments, so it can't ever be a problem.

Those that make fallacious argument, however, do tend to be oblivious to their invalid argument.

What is it with the PRO-PWM camp? Wouldn't you rather it not be there, even if unseen? It is an inferior circuit to Constant Current. Why hedge? Why defend it? What is so great about PWM that you couldn't live without it? Why argue against the desire for better engineering? Meh, the rope bridge was good enough, we don't need these fancy suspension bridges!
 
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jon_slider

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Left to right, Worm low (measures 2.2 lumens on my meter), ReyLight Copper Tool w Nichia on low (calibrated my meter to 1 lumen spec), and my Lumintop Copper Tool w N219b on low (measures 2.5 lumen)
32507879785_39ab4147bd_b.jpg


I dont have a spectrograph to measure CCT. In practice, my Worm and ReyLight seem to be the same CCT, and the latest Tool, far right, looks slightly lower CCT

Maukka measured the N219b in his TiTool at 4300k and his CuTool at 4360k
His TiTool CCT tests 200k below the 4500k spec (less than 5% lower), and I would expect that to be in the "normal variation" range for a batch of LEDs.

I look forward to photo comparisons between Zebralights 4000k Cree High CRI LED, and a similar CCT Nichia 219b
 
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Random Dan

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Also, Carbon Monoxide cannot be seen, so don't worry about it! Breathe easy, friend. Bullets move so fast you can't see them, so there is no way they could harm anyone!! What is it with the PRO-PWM camp? Wouldn't you rather it not be there, even if unseen? It is an inferior circuit to Constant Current. Why hedge? Why defend it? What is so great about PWM that you couldn't live without it?
I've been using Zebralight for years. I currently have four sitting within arm's reach of me. In all that time none of them have tried to poison my air or shoot at me. Maybe I'm just lucky?

I don't think anyone has said that they can't live without pwm, just that they don't see it as turn-off. In lights like ZL where the pwm is too fast to be seen, the only noticeable difference is that pwm reduces the tint shift you get with current control. Seems like a non-issue to me.
 

chillinn

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I've been using Zebralight for years. I currently have four sitting within arm's reach of me. In all that time none of them have tried to poison my air or shoot at me. Maybe I'm just lucky?

I don't think anyone has said that they can't live without pwm, just that they don't see it as turn-off. In lights like ZL where the pwm is too fast to be seen, the only noticeable difference is that pwm reduces the tint shift you get with current control. Seems like a non-issue to me.

Ah, I see: apathy eclipses empathy... because I don't care, then it shouldn't matter to anyone.
 

eraursls1984

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Those that make fallacious argument, however, do tend to be oblivious to their invalid argument.

What is it with the PRO-PWM camp? Wouldn't you rather it not be there, even if unseen? It is an inferior circuit to Constant Current. Why hedge? Why defend it? What is so great about PWM that you couldn't live without it? Why argue against the desire for better engineering? Meh, the rope bridge was good enough, we don't need these fancy suspension bridges!
It's not so much that people are so pro-PWM, it's just that not everyone cares to jump through hoops to figure out if a light has PWM, Pulses, or is CC. When you can't tell unless you take specific pictures or use tools that you don't use normally, it doesn't really matter. I hated PWM in the past because it was noticeable, and it would effect pictures. I hated constant current because of the tint shift (why do the pro-CC/anti-PWM love tint shift so much?). They all have their pros and cons. Most lights with PWM are so fast that it doesn't effect most people, only a few niche hobbies/tasks that it may interfere with. I love constant current because of the complexity, efficiency(sometimes), and general advanced circuitry, but it's not the be all, end all without its own flaws.
 

Fireclaw18

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I've been using Zebralight for years. I currently have four sitting within arm's reach of me. In all that time none of them have tried to poison my air or shoot at me. Maybe I'm just lucky?

I don't think anyone has said that they can't live without pwm, just that they don't see it as turn-off. In lights like ZL where the pwm is too fast to be seen, the only noticeable difference is that pwm reduces the tint shift you get with current control. Seems like a non-issue to me.

Fast PWM: No tint shift, but may be much less efficient at low power settings.
Current control: may tint shift quite dramatically at low power, but provides the best efficiency. Battery life at lowest power settings can be dramatically longer than a PWM light.

They each have their advantages and disadvantages. If you're like me and recharge your lights every night, good tint matters much more than long battery life. On the other hand if you use disposable cells or don't charge often, you probably want the light to turn on when you need it more than you care about having the perfect tint.
 
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