Running Nitecore MH20GT on 2x Olight 16340's?

I'll get right to the point:

I run the flashlight on Nitecore's 18650, 3400 mAh cell, by which I mean: I sometimes switch it on for 10-20 seconds in Turbo for when I need to see far into the distance. That's it. My primary light sources in the field are other flashlights and a headlamp.
I want to maximize the reach I'm getting with the MH20GT. Given the designation, runtimes are not of any concern. I did get me an adapter tube for 2XCR123's, so I would have a backup, in case the 18650 runs out of power. *The beam is almost as bright as what I get with the 18650.

I've already had a discussion in this forum about which cells are best (max output) for the MH20GT and came to a conclusion that the marginal increase in brightness was not worth the disadvantages that came with an IMR cell.

Later on, when I acquired the Olight SR1 Baton and found out about the unusual properties of its stock RCR123 cell, I realized that I could probably use a couple of them in my MH20GT. So, my questions and concerns are as follows:

First of all: the voltage. Primary lithium CR123's are ~3.2V. A couple stacked in series are about 6 and a half volts, which the MH20GT can handle just fine. However, stacking up two freshly charged 16340's adds up to 8.4 volts, which is TWICE the voltage of an 18650(!).

So? Can the MH20GT even handle something like that? In the specs they don't say nothing about 16340 Li-ions, just the plain CR123's. If I was them, I'd place the over-voltage protection threshold at right about 7 volts. But hey, who knows what they did there!

If two 16340 Li-ions do work in this flashlight we can proceed.

Which ones would be better then?: Right now, I have just the cell that came with my Baton and it's this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Olight-RCR1...Li-ion-Battery-for-Camera-Torch-/391662985443

But since I wouldn't need the in-flashlight charging capability I should probably go for a couple of these cells:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Olight-1634...on-Battery-Pair-for-S10-M10-etc-/311610584982

The 550mAh rocks in the Baton! And I know that nothing (protected) tops the currents this baby can put out. Is the 650mAh cell just as good in this regard? Or am I asking too much?

The most important question is actually this: DOES IT MAKE SENSE?
What kind of increase in output would I get, compared to the Nitecore's 18650 that I already have and am pretty happy with?
If we're talking something like 5-10 percent, then screw it! If it's 20% or more - I'm game!

What do you think? (Has anyone even tried 16340's in the MH20GT?)

First of all, unless you're a thrill seeker and don't mind blowing your light, you'll want to proceed on the assumption that the driver board is 6v and not 8.4v.

Secondly, a decent 16340 has about 650-700mAh on low drains, +/- a bit and certainly less on high output settings. Stacking two of them compounds voltage, which might matter in output, but not capacity. So there's your first rub.

Next, since you're running li-ions in series, a prudent person would buy new cells and hopefully match them on an analyzing charger and those cells should be protected.

The trade offs are getting slightly more voltage going from two CR123As (6v) to two 16340s (8.4v) to just blowing your light versus just getting a good high capacity, high current 18650 and going that route.

Chris

ChrisGarret is the man OP he knows what he says. I tried 2 regular CR123's for a bit I saw no difference in my MH20GT was not about to dump 2x16340's in it as man the GT is an expensive light and I did not want to blow it. I have found the 18650 GA cell to be stellar for the light....

CelticCross74 said:

ChrisGarret is the man OP he knows what he says. I tried 2 regular CR123's for a bit I saw no difference in my MH20GT was not about to dump 2x16340's in it as man the GT is an expensive light and I did not want to blow it. I have found the 18650 GA cell to be stellar for the light....

Click to expand...

I'm not about to drop two 16430's in it myself, especially that I would have to buy them first. That's why I started this thread, to see if anyone has done it.

Here's a link for y'all:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...GT-(XP-L-HI-V3-1x18650-or-2x(R)CR123A)-Review

Check out the title. Also, under "Overall Impressions", the OP states: " You can use 1x18650 or 2xCR123A (or 2xRCR123A)" and nobody says a damn peep. In fact, in that long-*** thread that is the ONLY place where RCR123A's get any kind of mention.
Was the OP overly enthusiastic about this flashlight or is there some merit to his assertion? I know I'm not about to experiment with my MH20GT.

PS: Before anyone else tries to shoot me down: The fact that that bit of info was posted in this very forum makes my inquiry all the more valid.

OP nobody trying to "shoot you down" just trying to save you same money and heartache. The MH20GT in my opinion already has more than enough output running off my GA cells. I thought about experimenting with 2 of my fresh AW 18350's but after seeing no visible output increase on 2xCR123's and losing half the run time vs a GA cell decided against it. The GT is an amazing light and dare I say ranks up there in stellar performance terms in a very compact 1x18650 light with the stellar Zebralight SC600 MkIII HI which I also own. GA all the way

CelticCross74 said:

OP nobody trying to "shoot you down" just trying to save you same money and heartache. The MH20GT in my opinion already has more than enough output running off my GA cells. I thought about experimenting with 2 of my fresh AW 18350's but after seeing no visible output increase on 2xCR123's and losing half the run time vs a GA cell decided against it. The GT is an amazing light and dare I say ranks up there in stellar performance terms in a very compact 1x18650 light with the stellar Zebralight SC600 MkIII HI which I also own. GA all the way

Click to expand...

You can't compare primary lithiums to li-ion cells. In terms of voltages and currents the latter are superior. And I don't think that you are familiar with Olight's ORB-163C05 cells that are unlike anything else out there.

In theory, a couple of those batteries should beat the crap out of any cell(s) that you can stick into the MH20GT.
But even if the driver allows the 8.4 volts, will it "drive" the current all way up? That is the question.

We can speculate until kingdom come. There's no point. Unless someone who has actually run this flashlight on two 16340's joins in, this discussion is going nowhere.

Olights ORB-163C05 cells? ..those are which ones? I have no testing equipment besides my eyeballs somebody stole my expensive Fluke meter. Ill do you one better OP. Tonight I will take my own GT and charge up 2 fresh AW18350's and see what happens. I predict a non noticeable jump in output at best. Looking into my expensive battery collection I have Orbtronic 700mah, AW 750mah and Keeppower 700mah 16340's. Will also give the AW's a shot. It is actually going to be an unusually nice night here in the Washington D.C. area so might as well have some fun with it. Will post back

CelticCross74 said:

Olights ORB-163C05 cells? ..those are which ones? I have no testing equipment besides my eyeballs somebody stole my expensive Fluke meter. Ill do you one better OP. Tonight I will take my own GT and charge up 2 fresh AW18350's and see what happens. I predict a non noticeable jump in output at best. Looking into my expensive battery collection I have Orbtronic 700mah, AW 750mah and Keeppower 700mah 16340's. Will also give the AW's a shot. It is actually going to be an unusually nice night here in the Washington D.C. area so might as well have some fun with it. Will post back

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I'd be grateful if you did the test, though I must advise you against it. Even if everything appears to be in order, with two 4.2V cells you are potentially shortening the life of the unit.

Sorry to hear about your Fluke. Consider getting yourself a "cheap" UNI-T. I have the UT139C. It's pretty good, lotsa features, powered by 2XAA's (I hate the 9V) and you can't beat the price. Used it to test the currents on most of my flashlights, including the GT.

Good luck with the test!

Alright it is now dark. Am going for a walk around a man made lake here thats in some woods so light pollution is low. Will be starting off with freshly charged AW 750mah 16340's that I have just put into the light. The blue LED under the switch counted out 8.4 volts so good to go! Will switch to freshly charged AW 800mah 18350's after a bit. Coming along with me is an also freshly charged Olight SR52(XML2)just in case the GT blows. Be back in a bit....

EDIT-
Here are my results after nearly an hour and a half of outdoor experimentation with the 2xsources

2xAW 750mah 16340's
I used these cells first. Walking to the nearby man made forested lake took a bit. I had the light on the 3rd highest setting and all was fine. I get to the forested lake and turn the GT to max output. The emitter did not blow but the protection circuits on the AW cells tripped in what I timed at 8 minutes shutting the light off. During those 8 minutes the light started out very strong. At just under 3 minutes the light got pretty hot and started throttling down. I kept it at max. The light got dimmer then brighter, got pretty hot again, dimmed again by a considerable amount then the protection circuits on the cells tripped shutting the light off.

Boy, the Olight SR52 is a stunningly good light and I am glad I had mine with me fully charged. I turned the SR52 on, sat it on the ground on its base, then pulled out the hot AW 16340's and put them in a jacket pocket. I stood by the lake for several minutes using the mighty SR52 as a lamp while I let the GT cool off with the tail cap off on the ground in front of me. After about 10 minutes I pulled out the freshly charged AW 800mah 18350's out and slid them in the GT.

2xAW 800mah 18350's
These are unprotected IMR cells not lithiums. I wondered if it would be these cells that would blow the emitter. Turning the SR52 off and putting it back into my large inside jacket pocket I clicked the GT back onto max and continued my walk around the lake. Now, I have no idea exactly why as I in no way claim to be a battery expert but the GT did far better on these cells. The light took twice as long to get hot and the light did not throttle down nearly as hard as it did on the 16340's. It was at the 20 minute mark that the GT had throttled back enough that is was very noticeable and the light had been hot for several minutes. Not wanting to kill my expensive GT I ended the test turned off the GT pulled out the SR52 again and continued around the lake which took awhile.

The lake is large and in the woods with next to no light pollution. The GT really strutted its stuff before it got to hot easily lighting up the treeline on the other side of the lake. The standard SR52 is stellar as usual as it had no problem whatsoever lighting up well...anything at all. I found my way home via the SR52's stellar stable output and run times.

In the end there is a protected GA back in my GT now. Performance wise the GA just has the best capacity and after tonight's experiment I believe the GT is just regulated so well that it does not matter what you put into it the light is just going to pull X amount regardless.

CelticCross74 said:

I believe the GT is just regulated so well that it does not matter what you put into it the light is just going to pull X amount regardless.

Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking. The driver on this light is stellar. I was suspecting that giving it "stronger juice" would be pointless.

Not exactly the kind of test I myself would do but thanks a bunch! I'm not gonna bother with them RCR123A's. Although it's great to know that I could use them in a pinch in this light. I'll just stick to my 18650 Nitecore for now (and probably far beyond "now").

Thanks again!

cdm-dude said:

You can't compare primary lithiums to li-ion cells. In terms of voltages and currents the latter are superior. And I don't think that you are familiar with Olight's ORB-163C05 cells that are unlike anything else out there.

In theory, a couple of those batteries should beat the crap out of any cell(s) that you can stick into the MH20GT.
But even if the driver allows the 8.4 volts, will it "drive" the current all way up? That is the question.

We can speculate until kingdom come. There's no point. Unless someone who has actually run this flashlight on two 16340's joins in, this discussion is going nowhere.

Click to expand...

Well, you can compare lithium 3.0v primaries to 3.2v RCR123 lithium rechargeable LiFePO4s.

Just not the 3.6v/3.7v 16340 li-co/li-mn cells that are more common here.

Olight's ORB-163C05 is just an IMR based 16340 and is nothing special. In fact, they list the constant current drain at 5C on the wrapper, so that's about 3A and well that's somewhat typical, but not at the pinnacle.

You're still left with ~500mAh of capacity stacking both cells.

Chris

interesting. ChrisGarrett the AW IMR 800mah 18350's I used are rated at 15c each how much amperage does that translate into? OP I have all the MH20's. Having dug deep into the reviews section it is the standard XML2 MH20 that actually has the most output at just above or just below 1000 OTF lumens. I use the NW MH20 the most as I believe NC did an outstanding job on the tint. I never use the micro USB recharging feature as it just takes to long. With Fenix now going IP68 across their catalog I am hoping NC follows that. An IP68 MH20 would have me opening my wallet pretty quickly which is saying a lot as I have stopped buying lights. There just is not anything out right now I feel is worth spending even more of my money...

CelticCross74 said:

interesting. ChrisGarrett the AW IMR 800mah 18350's I used are rated at 15c each how much amperage does that translate into?

Click to expand...

The only AW 18350 that I see HKJ testing is the 700mAh IMR 18350, which is tested up to 5A and does decently enough. If you're after decent capacity, 3A is the sweet spot.

http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/AW IMR 18350 700mAh (Red) UK.html

I got some AWT 18350 IMRs a year back to run in my Ven Triple XP-L HI Convoy S2+ with LD-2 6A driver board which DDs on turbo and they're about good up to 7A, but they're harder to find than others.

Chris

ChrisGarrett said:

Well, you can compare lithium 3.0v primaries to 3.2v RCR123 lithium rechargeable LiFePO4s.

Just not the 3.6v/3.7v 16340 li-co/li-mn cells that are more common here.

Olight's ORB-163C05 is just an IMR based 16340 and is nothing special. In fact, they list the constant current drain at 5C on the wrapper, so that's about 3A and well that's somewhat typical, but not at the pinnacle.

You're still left with ~500mAh of capacity stacking both cells.

Chris

Click to expand...

My understanding is that the ORB-16305 is a protected cell with an over-current threshold set higher than is typically found. I don't know any other RC123A that has these properties. But then, I am not an expert on any of this.

I don't know if you've read my original post in its entirety but the capacity had nothing to do with anything. Thanks for the heads up anyway.

cdm-dude said:

My understanding is that the ORB-16305 is a protected cell with an over-current threshold set higher than is typically found. I don't know any other RC123A that has these properties. But then, I am not an expert on any of this.

I don't know if you've read my original post in its entirety but the capacity had nothing to do with anything. Thanks for the heads up anyway.

Click to expand...

Not really.

https://olightworld.com/store/flashlight/accessories/batterylithrcr123a.html

The above is model number: ORB-163P06

That RCR123A/16340 is a 3.7v ICR type protected cell. We'll call it 16340, since often times the RCR123A designator refers to a LiFePO4 3.2v cell.

The protection circuit is set at 2A according to the Olight link above. Typical for the class and nothing special.

Olight also sells/sold an IMR based 16340 which is/was ORB-163C05.



There's a picture of it there and I saw it on one of the Olight sites last night. It's not protected and the 5C symbol means that it can handle a 2.75A discharge, which is right in line with other IMR 16340s, from AW, Efest and AWT.

Until you confirm whether your driver board can handle 8.4v, you just don't want to run two ICR/IMR li-ions in series. Now two K2 Energy 3.2v LiFePO4 cells, sure.

Chris

CelticCross74 said:

interesting. ChrisGarrett the AW IMR 800mah 18350's I used are rated at 15c each how much amperage does that translate into? OP I have all the MH20's. Having dug deep into the reviews section it is the standard XML2 MH20 that actually has the most output at just above or just below 1000 OTF lumens. I use the NW MH20 the most as I believe NC did an outstanding job on the tint. I never use the micro USB recharging feature as it just takes to long. With Fenix now going IP68 across their catalog I am hoping NC follows that. An IP68 MH20 would have me opening my wallet pretty quickly which is saying a lot as I have stopped buying lights. There just is not anything out right now I feel is worth spending even more of my money...

Click to expand...

Well, I myself am glad to have purchased the GT instead of the MH20. Higher output or not, the deeper reflector on the GT does its job. I don't care much about the tint, as it is not my primary light. I'm not joking, since I got it, I had to recharge the 18650 (3400mAh) only once (!) because I use the GT for 2 to 3 minutes total per outing (and sometimes don't even use it all). *I'm not counting, of course, the 5 or 6 times I've charged it while I was running the unit through all my usual tests. I don't even bother checking the voltage before heading out as I always have 2 or 4 primary CR123's with me for backup.

I don't care about the USB port. It's nice that it's there and I even have a wall adapter that can feed it 2A (not sure if it's even needed). However, given that my recharges are so few and so far in between, I don't mind taking the 18650 cell out and charging it with my Fenix ARE-C2. As an added bonus I'm not putting any wear on that questionable "flap" that covers the USB port. Olight have got it somewhat right with their "docking" system but induction is obviously the way to go.
I feel that I'm set in the flashlight department, though I always keep an eye out for new stuff, as no flashlight is perfect and there's always something to improve. I really hope they (Fenix/NC or whoever) come out of the "tactical" phase. I'm pretty sick of all this "black" which is the worst color to have your flashlight in, if you're trying to find it in the dark. Having more "color" options would be great. Brushed titanium does it for me. I'm ready to shell out $$$ on a titanium copy of the MH20GT right now!

ChrisGarrett said:

Not really.

https://olightworld.com/store/flashlight/accessories/batterylithrcr123a.html

The above is model number: ORB-163P06

That RCR123A/16340 is a 3.7v ICR type protected cell. We'll call it 16340, since often times the RCR123A designator refers to a LiFePO4 3.2v cell.

The protection circuit is set at 2A according to the Olight link above. Typical for the class and nothing special.

Olight also sells/sold an IMR based 16340 which is/was ORB-163C05.

There's a picture of it there and I saw it on one of the Olight sites last night. It's not protected and the 5C symbol means that it can handle a 2.75A discharge, which is right in line with other IMR 16340s, from AW, Efest and AWT.

Until you confirm whether your driver board can handle 8.4v, you just don't want to run two ICR/IMR li-ions in series. Now two K2 Energy 3.2v LiFePO4 cells, sure.

Chris

Click to expand...

According to this:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?424199-Review-Olight-S1R-TurboS-Version

The ORB-163C05 is a protected IMR.

cdm-dude said:

According to this:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?424199-Review-Olight-S1R-TurboS-Version

The ORB-163C05 is a protected IMR.

Click to expand...

Yep, that is a different cell, no doubt. Proprietary with protection circuit at the positive end, as well as the negative/positive contacts at the same end, to accommodate the cell's orientation in the light itself, for the base charger. I don't know if you can use that cell in any other light?

Anyhow, it looks like this one here:

https://www.olightstore.com/batteries-and-chargers/olight-550mah-16340-imr-battery

There aren't any current specs, but I'm sure that it's just the same as any other IMR 16340 and the voltage still comes hot off the charger at 4.2v.

Good luck with whatever you do.

Chris

NC has really stepped up their game over the last 26 months. 5 years ago most of their product was sub par. OP now you have me thinking of different metal MH20's lol. I have all the Olight S Minis and love the feel of the different metals and look of their finishes. Doubt we will see anything but aluminum from them for awhile at least. A neutral white GT might make me jump though.

CelticCross74 said:

NC has really stepped up their game over the last 26 months. 5 years ago most of their product was sub par. OP now you have me thinking of different metal MH20's lol. I have all the Olight S Minis and love the feel of the different metals and look of their finishes. Doubt we will see anything but aluminum from them for awhile at least. A neutral white GT might make me jump though.

Click to expand...

I've always considered aluminum bodies to be somewhat sub par. Aluminum is a compromise as far as the price goes. Yes, it's got the weight and heat dissipation going for it but as far as robustness and durability, aluminum isn't all that great and I have my NC MT10A to demonstrate it. One drop on the tail end has stripped this flashlight of its tail-standing capability. Would take and post a photo, too lazy... but this kind of s**t would have never happened with a titanium body, not under the same conditions, anyway. Yes, the more noble metal is heavier but I don't care! More expensive? It'll last longer!