OLDER, SIMPLER AND BETTER!!!

All you need to know about my recent experience w/ the FENIX ARE-C2+ is to check the link below: Basically fancy buttons[none of which can change the amps!], charges EVERY battery at 1amp and does not give a full charge to numerous batteries whether they are young or old!

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?430320-WHAT-WERE-THEY-THINKING-!



So this thread is about the ORIGINAL FENIX ARE-C2. OLDER,SIMPLER AND BETTER!:thumbsup:

Just put the battery in,,,NO fancy buttons,will charge a 3.60V 3400mAh battery in 2h/2h15m maximum, Gives a FULL charge every time and there is a spring at the bottom which ACTIVATES the 1Amp charge. When it is NOT activated it charges at 500mA for the smaller batteries.

From my experience that[500mAh current] has NOT shortened the life of my 10440/16340/14500/18350 and my ENLOOP AAA 750mAh batteries which I have had Four[4] years!

I met what appears to be a NEW flashaholic on the trail. The first time I met him, unbeknownst to me, he was about 600 yards away. I did not recognize the young man who was Deprived of a torch at the time, until he was about 250/300 yards away! I was using the U21vn at the time[1500L/260Kcd/1020m of throw].
He told me from ~ 600 yards away he was "Blinded by the Light! He got smart and bought a few decent torches w/ the XPL V6/HI LEDS.

Anyway to wrap this up,,,I gave him my ARE-C2+ charger[got it free] and just bought another ORIGINAL ARE-C2 for ONLY $25! They do not have many left since they have been replaced by a charger that I do not prefer.Soon I will have 3 X ARE-C2 chargers!

I know it is NOT an Opus/Liitokala or one of those other chargers w/ all the additional functions and tests that they can do.

Mine is SIMPLE, DURABLE[3 years old], EXPEDIENT and gives a FULL charge every time which is important to this TYPE "A" Flashaholic who likes resting voltages of 4.17V and higher, NOT 4.12/13v!

The simple things in life that makes One happy!!

Did your check from Fenix arrive in the mail today?

Chris

ChrisGarrett said:

Did your check from Fenix arrive in the mail today?

Chris

Click to expand...

Yep!! They know CAPO and I are in LA COSA NOSTRA and send me 33K every month!:nana:

Seeing the title and OP, I thought Capo had wrote an autobiography.

Hahaha...

ALSO STOP YELLING AT ME WITH ALL THE CAPS! AHHHHHHHHH.

How about some Feedback on the subject matter?!

This is ground breaking information!

Fair.

To get back on point, I suppose I'd never buy either Fenix charger. I think it's great the original served you well, but neither charger was built for flashaholics like us in mind.

Neither can do more than 1A. Neither can do under 500mA. Both are too weak for reasonable 26650 charging. Both are too strong for safe 14500 and 10440 charging. Neither has testing capability.

In the change, they basically abandoned the good charge rate for 16340s and 18350s. Overall, very few lights use these batteries (PD35 being only current model to use 16340, no 18350), and those who carry these will be the flashaholics who want more from a charger.
So yeah it is a step backward for us, but for 95% of the consumers, nothing was lost.

Bdm82 said:

Fair.

To get back on point, I suppose I'd never buy either Fenix charger. I think it's great the original served you well, but neither charger was built for flashaholics like us in mind.

Neither can do more than 1A. Neither can do under 500mA. Both are too weak for reasonable 26650 charging. Both are too strong for safe 14500 and 10440 charging. Neither has testing capability.

Click to expand...

I agree. I wouldn't use either, if you sent them both to me, as they're not worth the trouble of digging them out of the cupboard and using either over other chargers like my Maha C9000, my Opus BT-3400, or my Xtar VP2.

For somebody walking into the Vape store for some cells and a charger, sure. I can see people who don't want to fuss with this stuff, getting a warm fuzzy felling over the charger, v.1 at least and so they're a benefit to some, but not to me.

It's like the Pila guys coming it here and telling us how great the IBC is.

Yawn...

Chris

Bdm82 said:

I suppose I'd never buy either Fenix charger.

Click to expand...

ChrisGarrett said:

I agree. I wouldn't use either, if you sent them both to me, as they're not worth the trouble of digging them out of the cupboard and using either...

Click to expand...

Have to agree with both of you as I also wouldn't use either.

To each his own,,,it works well enough for me. Maybe I am not as demanding and as high tech as you guys.

1. My Fenix charger charges 26650 FASTER than my Efest LUC V4 which has a 2amp setting! I guess Efest 2a charging rate is inferior to your Opus/Liitokala ect.!

2.I have several of each,,,,16340,14500 and 18350 batteries that are just about 2 years old. They have not degraded and still have resting voltages [after 4 or 5 days] of 3.16v/3.17v

3.I have AAA ENLOOPS 750mAh that are 4 years old and still going strong.

4.I have 3 X Efest IMR 10440. I specifically charge One of them in my Fenix and the other Two in my Keeppower L2[.5A/1.0A option]. They are 9 months old and so far so good!

5.@ Bdm82. This opinion of yours: "Both are too strong for safe 14500 and 10440 charging."

NOT TRUE in my 3 + years of using this charger!! I learned from HKJ that you can charge a 10440 @1a or even 2A. The cell may deteriorate quicker but is has NOTHING do do w/ being unsafe,and your talking about 500mAh!! So it is NOT unsafe to charge a 10440 or 14500 @ 500mA and it has not degraded my batteries either!


My point is this charger has limited charge current options, yet over the last 3 years it has charged EVERY battery [regardless of capacity] well without abnormal degradation!:thumbsup:

The batteries are not that expensive and I doubt if you guys w/ these fancy chargers are going to get more cycles out of your batteries than I do!

The post below is very interesting. I do not doubt any of this. It seems to be proof that we worry too much about using a specific charge rate!

Post below from Kurt Woloch:


The charging current doesn't matter that much regarding battery degradation. Here you can find a comparison of different charging / discharging currents:

http://aacycler.com/post/high-current-vs-low-current/

In this case, the nominal capacity is 2.1 Ah. A charge at 1.5 A (roughly 0.7 C) yielded 154 cycles when discharged to 0.9 V, and a charge at 0.5 A (roughly 0.23 C) yielded 180 cycles. So that higher charge current cost about 0.093% or 1/1066 of cycle life per cycle. This is with 0dV termination. You can also use higher charge rates if you terminate the charge properly, and much lower ones also work. I routinely charge my 8 Ah D cells at 0.5 A, which is 0.06 C, and they still works fine. I think a higher charging rate will mostly affect cycle life at the end of the charge when heat builds up since a higher charging rate generates more heat.

Speaking of:
Picked up an Apple charger with 6 NiMh batteries at Staples for less than $10 at the discount aisle a couple months ago. One cell was zero volts. Tried the sleek Apple charger; blinking no-go. Tried a (circa) 2013 Nitecore Intellicharger i2; nada. Pulled out an old Maha MH-C401FS (not an expensive charger) and success! That battery seems to be working just fine.

OLDER, SIMPLER AND BETTER (for this particular application)

^^^^

Another fine example!

KITROBASKIN said:

Speaking of:
Picked up an Apple charger with 6 NiMh batteries at Staples for less than $10 at the discount aisle a couple months ago. One cell was zero volts. Tried the sleek Apple charger; blinking no-go. Tried a (circa) 2013 Nitecore Intellicharger i2; nada. Pulled out an old Maha MH-C401FS (not an expensive charger) and success! That battery seems to be working just fine.

OLDER, SIMPLER AND BETTER (for this particular application)

Click to expand...

Many new smart chargers will have a 'minimum voltage level' threshold before the charger will start charging the battery/cell, or will trickle charge that battery/cell up to a certain voltage before stepping up the charge current.

For overly discharged batteries/cells, one needs to use a dumb charger if their charger won't initiate the charge process.

Just the nature of the beast.

Chris

Capolini said:

To each his own,,,it works well enough for me. Maybe I am not as demanding and as high tech as you guys.

Click to expand...

That's the beauty of the forums... if everyone agreed on everything it'd be rather boring.

Capolini said:

5.@ Bdm82. This opinion of yours: "Both are too strong for safe 14500 and 10440 charging."

NOT TRUE in my 3 + years of using this charger!! I learned from HKJ that you can charge a 10440 @1a or even 2A. The cell may deteriorate quicker but is has NOTHING do do w/ being unsafe,and your talking about 500mAh!! So it is NOT unsafe to charge a 10440 or 14500 @ 500mA and it has not degraded my batteries either!

Click to expand...

In the literal sense, "safe" is not the right term. "Ideal" would have been more accurate. A fair call out.

Capolini said:

... A charge at 1.5 A (roughly 0.7 C) yielded 154 cycles when discharged to 0.9 V, and a charge at 0.5 A (roughly 0.23 C) yielded 180 cycles.

Click to expand...

That's almost a 20% bump in battery life! I'd take 180 cycles rather than 154 cycles any day!

I guess I just don't understand the passion here... the ideal tool for the smaller batteries (one that can charge at 200-300ma like the opus) is not that expensive. A marginal fenix charger is now more marginal for flashaholics and still perfect for vapors. "Meh" is my reaction.

When you look at it this way it is minimal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. So that higher charge current cost about 0.093% or 1/1066 of cycle life per cycle.

also,Too strong for being SAFE is totally different than Ideal!

No more comments Chris?!!

I like how you give a negative view of my charger and then when I post some facts[positive] contradictory to that negativity you have no response!

Capolini said:

When you look at it this way it is minimal,,,,,,,,,,,,,,. So that higher charge current cost about 0.093% or 1/1066 of cycle life per cycle.

also,Too strong for being SAFE is totally different than Ideal!

Click to expand...

Cap., you got one for free and since you use a lot of bigger cells, it's no doubt ideal for you and if anything, it's a decent backup to have, much like my La Crosse BC-700 and Xtar VC4 chargers are. I rarely use them, but they're more than capable should something else break.

'Two is one and one is none', as we say.

That being said, you really don't know how your batteries/cells are fairing, since you don't have an analyzing charger. Although I.R. measurements are somewhat spotty on these chargers, I still get an idea of where my NiMH batteries are when looking at the I.R. voltages on my Maha C9000 and the readings on my Opus.

Since I've had some NiMH and li-ion cells wear down while having/using these better chargers, I have an idea of what's what and why they're that way. I have a reference point, however minor it may be. It all helps.

While I charged up my first 4 AW 16340s (2 ICR/2 IMR) at 500mA for their first two and a half years here, I no longer charge them, or my 10440s, up at that 500mA rate, as a matter of course. It's definitely safe to do so, but I've learned over the years while hanging out here, it's not an ideal practice.

Play around with your Opus 3100, see what capacity all of your batteries/cells have, that have been overcharged and then get back to us. One definitely will see a degradation in performance and capacity if one has the proper tools.

I could still be using my 8 Sanyo 2700s, 8 AccuPower 2900s and AP 1200 AAAs 5 years after buying them, but they all became too much of a hassle to charge back up on my Maha C9000 and LC BC-700, with I.R.s over 2.6xv, so into the recycle bin they went.

Chris

Capolini said:

No more comments Chris?!!

I like how you give a negative view of my charger and then when I post some facts[positive] contradictory to that negativity you have no response!

Click to expand...

I've been pretty consistent since you started this Fenix v.2 pep rally. It's a hot mess and all sorts of 'f----- up' is what I think I said, right?

I say the same thing about the Olight flex charger and the smaller Klarus C1, that have higher fixed rates that preclude them from regularly charging up smaller cells.

I use smaller cells and I'd rather be stuck with a 500mA rate for my 16340s, 14500s and 18350s than a 1A rate, even if 500mA is too slow for my 18650s and 26650s.

Don't get too personally invested in your free Fenix v.2 charger, is all I'm saying. When you first started your initial thread, some of us suggested other analyzing chargers, in the same price range. You eventually cancelled your order and bought an Opus BT-3100 analyzing charger, presumably for a reason--that reason being it's most probably a better charger to have for $10 more.

You then received the Fenix charger that you gave up on, for free, so that's a bonus as I said to you in our PMs. Be happy, but you getting one for free doesn't negate my initial impression of the charger, is all that I'm getting at.

Until it's tested thoroughly and only having your impressions of it to go by, it's still seems like it's not a very flexible charger, one with a specific target user--a person using bigger cells only.

That's fine, but much like the Pila guys and their defense of that once popular charger, we've moved on and moved on quickly.

Chris

ok,,,,,,,I try to simplify it. I do not have to know EXACTLY what the capacity loss is.,,,I can get a good idea by performance and voltage loss.

-It is as simple as this. I use and enjoy my modified lights.

-I come home, test voltage and charge them. Then I check the voltage again out of the charger.

-When I see a battery come off the charger @ ~4.12v and then after resting several days is at ~4.08/09V then its time to save them for spares or recycle them!

P.S. I am NOT getting the Opus now,I am staying Old School and another discounted Original Fenix ARE-C2 is on the way!LOL!

I know it has less features. I do not need to get that technical to know when I need/want new batteries. As I mentioned earlier, I have gotten longevity out of EVERY size/chemistry and capacity battery that I have used in the ARE-C2

You Like your chargers, I like my chargers and I LOVE MY MODIFIED TORCHES AND SO DOES CAPO!:thumbsup:

ChrisGarrett said:

I use smaller cells and I'd rather be stuck with a 500mA rate for my 16340s, 14500s and 18350s than a 1A rate, even if 500mA is too slow for my 18650s and 26650s.



Chris

Click to expand...

I think your getting mixed up! My ORIGINAL ARE-C2 ,,,,one I like better has a 500mAh setting!

Capolini said:

I think your getting mixed up! My ORIGINAL ARE-C2 ,,,,one I like better has a 500mAh setting!

Click to expand...

I've only been addressing the new v.2 charger, but you've got so many posts referencing both, simultaneously, that it's hard keeping your comments in order, save for having a spread sheet handy.

Anyhow...start playing with the Opus and let us know how it goes.

Chris