Mr. Bulk Vip led swap

So I just picked up a user Mr. Bulk VIP for cheap. Does anybody know what's the most modern led that could be swapped in? I see the lux 3 Ied looks easily accessible.

The current gen of Cree's with 3Vf should work fine (such as XP-G's, XP-L's, or even XM-L's or Nichia 219's).

The challenge would be to get the emitter-to-reflector height set for optimal reflector/optic focus. An emitter on star with some shimming should work fine with the VIP.

In other cases (not with the VIP) Luxeon swap's, might require use of a tiny 8mm MCPCB's in order to allow the emitter to be set deeper into the reflector.

Thx for the input PC light check this picture out. http://www.imagometrics.com/FLReviews/VIP.htm

It looks like the the led isn't sitting on a traditional "star"mpcb. It looks like the led is sitting on top of the pedestal looking heat sink? Can you install a Cree this way?

Hi Toasty,

Relatively straightforward as emitter swaps go. The beauty of enthusiast/custom lights such as the VIP with it's head options, reflectors/optics choices, etc. is that they welcome modding. Whereas commercial lights are often sealed tight for service duty and water tightness, which can make changing emitters difficult.

What the VIP has is a classic Luxeon III Emitter fastened (using Arctic Alumina adhesive) to the heatsinking mounting base. That black pedestal is part of the Luxeon LED itself (unlike Cree emitters that are separate and mounted on MCPCBs). For a LED swap everything sitting on the white AA upwards is replaced.

A 14 or 16 mm MCPCB will fit just right. The determining/limiting factor will be the distance available between the holes for the lead wires and grounding screw.

Without a change in optic or reflector, you will definitely need to shim the MCPCB to raise a Cree emitter high enough to get optimal focus. The original VIP design was intended to achieve a relatively throwy hotspot (at least as throwy as one could achieve given the small reflector size) vs flood.

The exact shim height will vary depending on the emitter and MCPCB you start with but it will typically be somewhere in the 1-2 mm range. The usual recommendations apply with regard to shimming. Copper or aluminum (perhaps to match the MCPCB used) recommended for best heat transfer to the VIP body which should easily handle the heat from the 3-4 watts design. Remember to use some AA at the various metal interfaces.

Personally I think a neutral XP-L Hi would be nice. Looking forward to your report back when done

O OK so your saying I need to use a Cree emitter on a star and put that on the heat sink pedestal thing.

toastystuff said:

...pedestal thing.

Click to expand...

Yes.
The Luxeon LED that needs to be removed is all of this.

After removal, what remains is presumably what you are referring to as the "heat sink pedestal thing" to which you mount the star.

Gotcha I'm not bad with a soldering iron I'll see if I can find a 12mm star with an emitter already flowed on so all I gotta do is solder the words and set with some aa like u said.

Yes, and shim for height.

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I just resized my recommendation based on some measurements of boards I have on hand. You should be able to squeeze in a 16 mm copper Notigon, it has nice deep notches for the wire leads. If you prefer a little more working room, or if the particular star you choose has shallower notches, a 14 mm will be fine.

Of course my initial 12 mm suggestion will still work as well, it's just my personal preference to squeeze as much MCPCB for heat sinking purposes as the space will permit.

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BTW, I noticed that you were searching for a VIP turbo head, every find one?

OK, now I just have to decide the best led for this VIP. I know I whant a neutral white tint and I also whant it to be brighter obviously. Maybe 219c I dunno I'm looking on mtn electronics and trying to decide.

Ps not sure what you mean by turbo head but I did find aax2 body and big bulk head. I still whant the bulk head , pocket clip, twisty tail and whatever other accessories I can find to this very cool torch.

The 219c's a good choice.

My experience with a 4000K 219c was ever so slightly on the yellow side relative to the 219b's pinker side. Not yellow compared to warm Cree's but relative to 219b. It was a very nice color rending neutral.

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Yes I was referring to Bulk head, should really help with the throw. Good luck with your search.

I haven't seen any 4K 219's on Mtn electronics just 5K guess I'll keep looking

MtnElectronics has some 219b's in 4000k that are CRI 90+. Priced right too. These appear to be Binned more 219c like in terms of tint (yellow) than the 219b (rosey) I've had up to this point.

I got my 219c 4000k from KaiDomain, I just checked and they have'em in stock. Of course unlike Mtn Elec who ships lighting fast it'll take a while to get here China.

OK so I got me a noctigon board I salvaged from a dead drop in and I have some leds on the way. Now how is it exactly that shim the led do I need to buy copper discs and artic alumina them to the pedestal?

Basically yes, that's all there is to it. The devil is in the details though.

Copper works best if you've got, particularly since the Noctigon is copper; aluminum's also good, after all that's what the VIP head is made of; and lastly brass, as it's readily available. A second MCPCB for stacking also works well but that's usually more thickness than needed which means more thinning down to get right.
[If stacked boards will work or are even desirable, note that the top circuit mask layer is actually insulating (fiberglass) except for a small thermal channel under the emitter, thus the top mask layer of the bottom board should ideally be removed for best thermal transfer from the top to bottom board.]

Artic Alumina paste should be fine, you can also consider AA adhesive for both good heat transfer and mechanical stability.

Before you start, measure the height between the original luxeon emitter phosphor layer and the pedastal. Since the Nichia phosphor die size and dome geometries are similar, that distance +/- should work as your final height.

Match these phosphor layer heights to maintain same beam focus


The VIP is a great light to start with, the head is readily accessible, relatively large and flat. Let the fun begin.
Awaiting results .

I swapped in an xre on a generic aluminum star I salvaged from a junk p60. Output increase is impressive. Unfortunately the ground wire is in the way. It's hard to properly position the star even after notching the star. I've ordered a xpl2 on a 16mm star from mtn. I guess I'll have to shim the star over the ground wire. I'll let you know how it goes.

toastystuff said:

... Unfortunately the ground wire is in the way. It's hard to properly position the star even after notching the star...

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's something extra with lights with side switches like the VIP. Sounds like you've got it covered with a notch. It's the detail devil I mentioned previously.

I ran into a similar extra ground with a ZL SC I moded, never doing one of those again.

Yea that ground screw really screws everything up no pun intended. A notch didn't quite give me enough clearance to properly center the star at least not a 16mm star. I think that I will have to shim the star over the ground screw. If that doesn't work I guess your initial suggestion of using a 10mm mcpcb might work as its not much bigger than the footprint of the original luxIII. I'll let you know how it goes once the parts I ordered from mtn arrive. In the meantime I'm going to try and find some copper discs at home depot to use as shims.

OK well I got the new mcpcb and I solderd it in place, unfortunately it lit of for a few seconds then stopped working I'm not sure what happened but it won't turn on.

toastystuff said:

OK well I got the new mcpcb and I solderd it in place, unfortunately it lit of for a few seconds then stopped working I'm not sure what happened but it won't turn on.

Click to expand...

Was there any infamous "magic smoke", the stuff that gives modders nightmare? Did the LED light output turn a color or burn differently for a split second, what is often referred to as ." These will be tell-tale signs of what might have happened. Or were you just try'n to live up to your handle (Sorry I coulnd't resist.)

Let's see what's up -

It's difficult to tell from the photo but you may want to check around the mcpcb wiring for any possible shorts. The red and black wires should be electrically isolated from each other and from the copper mcpcb (which could serve as a conductive short). The stripped wires look really close to the exposed metallic edge portions of the board. (See options regarding expose mcpcb edges here.)

AFTER you've confirmed that you don't have a short (and not before) you can check that the LED is still good by using a primary battery (~3.0V) direct to the mcpcb pad terminals pos-pos and neg-neg. If it lights, your LED is good and the problem is probably driver or wiring related. If it doesn't the problem is LED related, either a bad LED or a poor re-flow of the LED to mcpcb. Remove the LED and confirm or replace.

If the LED and re-flow are good then check whether it's a bad wire connection with the inside driver portions. If it's a bad wire, repair. If the driver's bad, then here's your opportunity to upgrade the driver to something newer!

Welcome to the school of hard-knocks, we've all been there.

No poof or anything like that. I'll. Check wires as suggest ed