Apple to face class action lawsuit on iPod battery

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=581&e=6&u=/nm/20040210/tc_nm/tech_apple_dc

Guess no one got the memo? I knew about the site below for a long time (dont remember exact date).

www.ipodsdirtysecret.com

We had really what I would consider an out of proportion amount of discussion about this the last time around. Being a mostly happy iPod owner I have trouble understanding the complaint. But then perhaps I just know too much about battery technology. 18 months is about the expected life for a LiIon battery. After that they start to drop off in the amount of power they can hold. Buying a new battery for the iPod costs $50. This is well in the range of a reasonable cost for these batteries (or at least in accordance with every other dealer of LiIon batteries, I think it's a ripoff, but thats hardly Apple's fault) or $100 to have Apple install it for you.

I've installed a new battery for a friend in his iPod. It took nearly 15 minutes cause we were going very slowly and carefully since neither of us had opened one up before. If you're really not the kind to open things up it might take you as long as 20 minutes.

My own ipod is only about 13 months old now, but it shows no signs yet of depleted battery life.

I won't blame the lawyers, but if you think you're doing anybody a favor by joining that you're wrong. At the end of it they will walk away with millions, you'll get a $5 discount on the replacement of your battery. Big deal. Just order a new one if you're not happy with it.

I've followed Apple ever since I owned an Apple ][ back in late 1978. (I switched to PCs when the Mac came out (not expandable, tiny screen, no command prompt, too pricey).

Steve Jobs has a strange design ethic.

- He sold early Macs without hard drives, since they were too noisy.
- He designed the Apple Cube without a fan (too noisy) and they flopped in the market (not expandable, crummy housing).
- His mice have one button; nowadays, everyone has two, plus it feels like your mouse is crippled if you don't have a scroll wheel.
- I'm sure he rejected a battery lid on the iPod since it would ruin the appearance of the unit. Now he'll hear about it in court.

He runs his company like a dictator; someone should have veto power over him when he wants to sell products that are obviously crippled.

PhotonBoy's dislike for Steve Jobs is well known here, but some of those points can be easily enough addressed...

[ QUOTE ]
Steve Jobs has a strange design ethic

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure this is one of the points you were making, but arguably his design "ethic" is what has saved the company, so strange or not it's successful.

[ QUOTE ]
He sold early Macs without hard drives, since they were too noisy.

[/ QUOTE ] Steve has often commented about wanting all of his stuff as possible to run without noisy fans. This put a very hard goal on the heads of the design team, no shortcuts had to be good thermal design. However, I don't believe that the noise was the problem with early Macs, but rather the size and the price. It was not until the SE that hard drives would even fit inside the enclosure, and earlier than that they would have added $400 or more to the price for a 10 or 20 meg (thats MEG cause we're talking ancient history here) I know the price cause I bought an external one for my Mac at around that time.

[ QUOTE ]
He designed the Apple Cube without a fan (too noisy) and they flopped in the market (not expandable, crummy housing).

[/ QUOTE ]

They flopped because they were too expensive. No other analysis is really needed. And they were quite expandable actually. Even internally there is room for many different display boards as well as tons of memory and upgrading the hard drive is easy. Did the lack of more PCI slots serve as the reason you didn't buy one? I don't think so. They already had included on them every other connection and cable port that you would want.

[ QUOTE ]
His mice have one button; nowadays, everyone has two, plus it feels like your mouse is crippled if you don't have a scroll wheel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Through extensive research it was discovered that the most common mistake a person new to computers makes is not knowing what to do with that other button. 2nd button commands are always available on the mac by holding the control key down when clicking. So someone with the stock mouse can still access all the same commands with the other hand, but it's simple for not so bright users to use as well. That being said I use a mouse with half a dozen buttons and a scroll wheel, all are fully supported by the OS. Who uses the stock crapo mouse that came with their machine anyway?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure he rejected a battery lid on the iPod since it would ruin the appearance of the unit. Now he'll hear about it in court.

[/ QUOTE ] seeing as how neither of us really knows what the decision process was, I'm equally sure that it was decided not to waste space and resources and weaken the overall strength of he enclosure to put in a door that needs to be opened once every 18 months. If it ran on AA's that needed to be replaced every 10 hours of use that would have been a necessity. If it's a little tricky to open every year and a half thats not so much of a hardship is it? Whats the lifespan of this device? 3 or 5 years? Maybe more. So you have to open it 2 or 3 times ever. I think you can probably handle it that many times.

Even if you don't like Apple and think the iPod is overpriced crap it's hard to justify the class action lawsuit on those reasons isn't it?

i may get the new ipod its more a size i prefare my 15 gig is kinda overkill for me! but ipod mini looks awesume.i cant beilive how much smaller ipod mini is

Re: Apple to face class action lawsuit on iPod bat

[ QUOTE ]
PhotonBoy said:
He runs his company like a dictator; someone should have veto power over him when he wants to sell products that are obviously crippled.

[/ QUOTE ]

YOU have veto power, in two different ways. First, if you don't like the product, DONT BUY IT! Second, Apple is a publicly traded company, he is still accountable to the shareholders, so if you don't want him running the company, buy some stock and vote him out.

[ QUOTE ]
James S said:
I won't blame the lawyers, but if you think you're doing anybody a favor by joining that you're wrong. At the end of it they will walk away with millions, you'll get a $5 discount on the replacement of your battery. Big deal. Just order a new one if you're not happy with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not have an iPod, but got an Archos Multimedia 20 instead. Plays music AND video, all for $250. Sure, there are some things I dont like about it but wasnt going to fork out an extra $100 for an iPod. I have never owned or even seen an iPod in person so I cant comment on the quality, ergos, etc but "I" think its overpriced. Im not trying to put anyone down (just like someone saying spending $100-$300 on flashlight is crazy) but I think theres lots of mp3 players that have better value. Dell released the DJ (Digital Jukebox) and it looks like its in direct competition with the iPod. Theyre having a special for the 15GB unit for $200. Oh, and I read/heard the Zen Xtra is a good player too, for the money.

http://www1.us.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/dj?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

[ QUOTE ]
James S said:
If it ran on AA's that needed to be replaced every 10 hours of use that would have been a necessity. If it's a little tricky to open every year and a half thats not so much of a hardship is it? Whats the lifespan of this device? 3 or 5 years? Maybe more. So you have to open it 2 or 3 times ever. I think you can probably handle it that many times.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you don't design cordless phones!

I agree it's not worth a lawsuit even though it seems like a poor design. James, 99% of the people don't have your technical skill level so for most folks it's more than just a 15 minute battery change. It's probably 1-3 weeks without their ipod and a pretty penny.

From Thursday's NY Times on the iPod's competition.

http://nytimes.com/2004/02/12/technology/circuits/12stat.html

Dave, what you LIKE having the battery spill out and the tabs on the little door break off everytime you drop your cordless? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif if I designed them then you would probably have to use a screw driver to open that door, and indeed, in the better of the 2 phones I own you DO have to use a screw driver /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

turn around time from Apple has yet to exceed 1 week for anybody posting about it on the internet. Most are done in 72 hours. And it's cheaper than AA's for the same service length. Also the pdasmart guys will also do the replacement for you for only $68. Don't know about their turnaround though.

Hmm, as far as the rest of you, dont own an ipod, haven't used an ipod, but it can't be any good anyway, really. Review products you own or it's not worth much. I don't see craig reviewing lights he doesn't have on his website...

ipod is one of the best mp3 players.only thing i didnt like is scatches showed up easly in a real world use..ine was great sounding awesume user inerface..i also like the new zen. and rio mp3 players

The thing about the $100 is you forget you paid a little extra when you start using the thing and the "spit polished" design sinks in. Not just the looks, but the overall design. The way it looks, the way it feels, the way the packaging opens, the way the touch-sensitive buttons work. I have an Apple webcam that I've used probably half a dozen times in the past 3 months. It was a little over $100. The last thing I think about it is "Dang, that was overpriced."

I'm not going to lie and say it's impossible to hate an Apple product, but the vast majority of people who post on the internet are very happy with their Apples.

You see, it IS like a $160 flashlight. You can scoff at the price all you want, you have to own the thing to appreciate it. Not everybody that buys the L4 loves it, but most people do.

Hmm, if we're going to grumble about battery prices - particularly Li-Ion ones, with limited lifespans that the manufacturer doesn't bother to warn customers about (Though they can find out easy enough, i.e. through the 'net), what about laptop manufacturers? And the extortionate prices they charge for replacements (If you can even FIND one for your model of laptop when it reaches two years or so old for that matter).

this month's popular science (meaning the march 2004) has an illustrated guide on how to replace the battery in an ipod. see page 93-94. doesn't look too bad.

Just read that article in Pop Sci myself.