In defense of the MagTac (or why beam shape can matter)

nitedrive

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
95
So my light collection isn't as impressive as many here and leans heavily to the budget side. Recently picked up two new 18650 lights (my first). I like both but they also got me thinking as I compared them to my previous lights.

The new members are:
  • Atactical A1 (claims around 500 lumens)
  • Pelican 7000 (outgoing 602 lumen model)

The older lights I'm using for comparison are:
  • Mag Tac (310 lumen)
  • Maglite ML50L 3C (611 lumen)
  • Stanley/Black and Decker LEDLIS spotlight (2000... oh wait they meant ~700 lumens)

I understand neither of the new lights is the latest and greatest 18650 pocket light cannon but even in comparison to the 310 lumens of the Mag Tac they draw an interesting comparison. When it comes to a simple ceiling bounce, for the most part, lumens is lumens. There is very little visual difference between the Pelican and the Atactical or the ML50L in terms of area lighting. The slightly greenish tinge of the Atactical being the biggest difference. The Mag Tac clearly trails here.

However, when you use the lights outside and shine them on things that are 50+ feet away the Mag Tac seems to punch above it's weight. In looking at the beam patterns things start to become clear. The Mag Tac's center appears to be every bit as bright as the Atactical and almost as bright as the Pelican. The hot spot is somewhat smaller but not radically so. Instead it falls off to the corona faster. Not like a 120 lumen 2D Maglite but still faster. Inside I don't notice the difference too much. Outside I also don't notice too much. Perhaps the bigger difference is the outer edges of the corona. The Mag Tac simply has a narrower corona and thus less lumens are wasted to the sides. While I might want a wider center spot I have no use for the wider corona of the other lights. Thus even though the two new lights are notably brighter in real use those extra lumens don't buy much.

The ML50L and the spotlight also have wide coronas but with they aren't as bright. At the same time their spots are very focused and thus have great reach.

This somewhat mirrors my experience with the Thrunite Ti3 vs Maglite Solitaire LED. I carry the Thrunite because the firefly mode is nice for checking on kids at night. When used outside the Solitaire, all 37 lumens is actually a better light vs the 120 lumen Thrunite. Again a focused beam allows more reach thus I can see further even if the ground at my feet isn't as widely illuminated.

In the end the experience with the new lights (both of which I like in their own regard) got me thinking that more lumens isn't all it's cracked up to be depending on your use. Outside the Mag Tac provides almost as much utility as lights that are nearly or actually twice as bright. The others use far more power to deliver a beam that really doesn't work much if any better outside (of course they also have far more power thanks to an 18650 cell... too bad Maglite doesn't support one). Many talk about flood vs focus. I would add that with most lights we might consider spot+corona size. If I could, I would rather take light from the corona and add it to the spot.

When I get a bit more time I'll add more opinion about each of the lights.
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,440
Location
Dust in the Wind
Good observations sir. When flashlights are used as tools quite often more more more isn't actually any better for many uses.

I like pencil beams for some things, flooders for others and often times settle on something in between for most uses.

Check out the little $19 Mag ML25 some time. It's got a pretty impressive beam for 177 lumens. I also really dig their little XL50.

Another amazing light is Pelicans 2350 (gen 2). You'd be hard pressed to know it's under 200 lumens.
 

Chicken Drumstick

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
1,651
Location
UK
I've posted this several times already tonight. But the key is not to obsess over lumens. It's like looking at torque figures for a car and ignoring horse power. Anyone in Europe will be able to tell you how low horse power slow 2.0 litre diesel turbo hatchbacks can make good torque numbers. As much as a Ferrari V8 in some cases. But it completely misses the point in what it can actually do.

With flashlights lumens are always good. But beam profile and lux are just as important. But often ignored. Also lumens are about a quantity or volume of light. Imagine a beam of light with no spill. Now add a second beam, you've just doubled the lumens and light up a wider area. However you could have just increased the intensity of the beam to light up the target better and further away.

anyhow clad you like your lights. :)

now you have some 18650's I encourage you to buy two more lights.

1. Convoy S2+ with an XM-L2. You'll be amazed at its output and how floddy the beam is.

2. Convoy C8 XP-L HI. You'll be amazed at how focused the beam is and how far it throws.

Both lights are very well made and super affordable. And you'll be astonished by the performance.
 
Last edited:

nitedrive

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
95
Thanks for the support (vs calling me crazy :D ) and thanks to Chicken for the Convoy suggestions. For the moment I'm set on lights. I've already got far more than I need. My problem is I hate to see them not get used... but I love to collect things.

Anyway, off the top of my head I have:
The B&D spot light (I don't think I've seen any reasonably priced LED light that shines further, claims 633M beam distance). It's also good in terms flat regulation etc.

2 Mag Tacs

2 Thrunite Ti3s

1 Solitaire LED

1 Maglite 2D ~120 lumen (good through, tiny spot)

2 Maglite LX200s (like them except for the 3AAA setup)

1 Pelican "2AA", which appears to be a cost reduced ~ 170 lumen 2360.

1 Inova X1, 50 lumen 1AA, great looking light, not the best to actually use.

2 2AA Maglite rebel, 3 mode lights

1 Black Diamond headlight

A few others that aren't interesting enough to note.

It's fun to play with them but I can justify getting any new lights at this point.


Anyway, a few more nice things about the Mag Tac. The power switch requires a light touch which is nice much of the time. The light is also very comfortable to hold. No sharp edges, the clip doesn't bother my hand if I grasp on it. The belt clip actually works really well. I know some don't like that it's plastic but I suspect it's quite strong. It's also easy to clip onto something. The Atactical and Pelican clips are very stiff and somewhat hard to clip to say your jeans pocket. I do with that the Mag Tac were programable like the ML50L. I would like the option to have low first or perhaps a very low mode. I would love to have the XL200 interface on the MagTac. It's still "almost" my favorite interface (I just wish you could do the twist change settings after the light was already on). Finally, I do think the Mag Tac looks good. Not over done like many lights.

Sadly the Mag Tac's big drawback is the batteries. I suspect there are cases where 18650 cells are not a good idea (say any place where the light might get exposed to burn your hands type heat). But that means I either use expensive CR123A cells or affordable but low capacity RC123A rechargeable cells. I've been doing the latter. It works but I like the idea of more run time. The rechargeable MagTac somewhat addresses the problem and ups the light output but well, $100 is a lot for that light. Also, even though I just went on a lumens aren't everything rant, well sometimes it's nice and I think about just how much farther that light could reach if it had a 500 lumen mode... assuming the LED was identical in size etc. Anyway, I really like the MagTac, I just wish I could get more run time with rechargeable cells.

The Atactical has already been covered well on the budget light forum. I'm not crazy about the two button control but only because I find the buttons poorly located with respect to one another. The beam is a bit green for my liking but just a bit. The light appears to use a linear regulator and gets warm very quickly. I would be mad about wasting power with a linear regulator but heck, this is a cheap light and comes with an 18650, USB chargeable battery. The belt clip has three edges were the metal tends to dig into your hand. The two raised features around the power button both protect the button and make it essential to get the correct rotation of the light in your hand else the button is hard to press. So, not perfect but at $20 with battery I'm trying to figure out who needs a light this year.

The Pelican 7000 is also a good light but perhaps not the bargain like the Atactical. I bought it figuring I could use the RCR123A cells I already had. Well, yes I can... for about 30 minutes. That light eats the little 400 mAh 3V cells. However, it also happily used the battery that came with the Atactical. So after that I bought a low cost set of protected 18650s and a charger (I used to work for a battery manufacture and I will not use unprotected Li-ion cells).

The Pelican has a pretty good spot size. Not too small or large. As I mentioned about, the corona is larger than I would wish and I would rather put that light into the spot (brighter or larger). The programability is not the best and the battery test only works for CR123 cells, not the 18650s. The three crenelations around the power button allow it to tail stand nicely but again force the orientation of the light in your hand before pressing the power button. The light is comfortable in the hand but the belt clip can again occasionally dig into the hand. It doesn't get too warm even on full. The light uses PWM vs current control to reduce output. It's hardly noticeable in the middle setting but low is another matter. The lens in plastic. This is something I have mixed feelings about. It means scratches are likely but shattering isn't. Even if you break it there isn't broken glass around. Overall build quality is very good.

So of the three lights, the Mag Tac is really good but the poor battery life using rechargables kind of kills it for me. Too bad since I really like it and Maglite in general. The Pelican is the one I would pick of the three but it's not a bargain. Between the light, batteries and charger I'm now at ~$55. Sure, that's not much compared to many lights but it is a lot compared to what I've spent (and how cheap I am). Basically I really like it but the value part is hard when the Atactical is $20. Based on my suggestion my brother just bought an Atactical as well. He is going to use it as a commuting bike headlight. I suggested getting a second battery but honestly, for $20, get a second light!
 

cp2315

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 18, 2011
Messages
329
Location
New Jersey
...My problem is I hate to see them not get used... but I love to collect things.

Exactly same here. Except I have like 100 decent lights and am still buying about 10-15 per year. Sign

I really wish I have a job that requires use of my lights.
 

wjv

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
962
Beam type is important.

Aim a 300 lumen tightly focused beam and a 600 lumen floody beam at a house and ask people which is brighter. A larger percentage will chose the 300 lumen tight focused beam because the concentrated spot "looks" brighter.
 
Joined
Mar 22, 2013
Messages
767
Location
Big Sky Country
Great topic! The beam shape and also the tint really matter. A couple days ago I went out for the first camping trip of the season. I always take a variety of lights (of course!) but this time I had a couple new ones to try out. Recently I got a used Surefire G2 Nitrolon from a fellow CPF'er; it had a Malkoff M61LL installed. It was really amazing just how good it works in the woods! On paper it's not super bright compared to most of my other torches but the beam has the perfect combination of hot spot and spill to make it very handy. It was great for gathering wood, tending the fire and all around general camp chores. And it was nice to know that with a fresh set of batteries it would have run from midnight to sun up if necessary and still have some juice left.
 

Tribull

Enlightened
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
362
Location
Massachusetts
Guys, the Magtac has been on my rader for quite some time now. Is there anything that you really dislike about it? Any idea if I could replace the clip? Thanks
 

xxo

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,007
Guys, the Magtac has been on my rader for quite some time now. Is there anything that you really dislike about it? Any idea if I could replace the clip? Thanks


The MagTac may not be the latest or have the highest lumens, but I like it......it's a nice size to get a good grip on and the electronic switch is really nice, especially when using momentary. The plastic clip is removable/replaceable but I am not sure if there are other options available.
 

nitedrive

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
95
Guys, the Magtac has been on my rader for quite some time now. Is there anything that you really dislike about it? Any idea if I could replace the clip? Thanks
The biggest issue I have with the Mag Tac is the limited rechargeable battery options. I think some have said 18350 cells could be used (7.2V nominal) but I'm not sure if that is actually true. Thus far I haven't been willing to risk my light (or the funds to buy the cells) to find out and I've stuck with the LiFePO4 cells. Those cells take a serious capacity hit vs the CR123a primary cells. I guess I also wouldn't mind a middle output level. Low is great for run time but something in the 150-200 lumen range would be a nice run time/output balance.
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,440
Location
Dust in the Wind
^^ That was why I opted for the XL 50. The low setting is great and no strobe.
Being a 3x triple a, Eneloop pro's give it a better run time than 3x triple a store bought's. Proprietary carrier setup prevents an 18mm fuel cell swap without serious modification(s).
The clip on both Tac and XL 50 is not my cup of tea but it's another edition of Mag's simple genious.

The lockout feature is also a boon. Don't know if they meant to but a few twists from tight cuts the circuit.

Grip of the MagTac is probably a million-billion times easier.
MagTac comes with Panasonic fuel cells. Another boon. They allow a high drain like SureFire cells while packing in more fuel.

The MagTac may not have been the home run Tony was hoping for sales-wise, but it's another example of why Maglite remains a viable company in these days of 'as seen on tv' tacti-cool flashion lights. And why a bunch of first responders and law officers still rely on them.
 

xxo

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 30, 2015
Messages
3,007
^^ That was why I opted for the XL 50. The low setting is great and no strobe.
Being a 3x triple a, Eneloop pro's give it a better run time than 3x triple a store bought's. Proprietary carrier setup prevents an 18mm fuel cell swap without serious modification(s).
The clip on both Tac and XL 50 is not my cup of tea but it's another edition of Mag's simple genious.

The lockout feature is also a boon. Don't know if they meant to but a few twists from tight cuts the circuit.

Grip of the MagTac is probably a million-billion times easier.
MagTac comes with Panasonic fuel cells. Another boon. They allow a high drain like SureFire cells while packing in more fuel.

The MagTac may not have been the home run Tony was hoping for sales-wise, but it's another example of why Maglite remains a viable company in these days of 'as seen on tv' tacti-cool flashion lights. And why a bunch of first responders and law officers still rely on them.


The MagTac with the plain bezel has a low mode and no strobe. BTW, I thought the XL50 had a strobe?
 

maglite mike

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
330
The Maglite xl 50 definitely has strobe, it has hi lo and strobe. All of the xl lights have the strobe function.
The MagTac with the plain bezel has a low mode and no strobe. BTW, I thought the XL50 had a strobe?
 

bykfixer

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 9, 2015
Messages
20,440
Location
Dust in the Wind
The Maglite xl 50 definitely has strobe, it has hi lo and strobe. All of the xl lights have the strobe function.

Mine is hi/lo. No strobe.

Maybe if I do some kinda 3 clicks, a pause and move my right foot to the left it'll strobe. But when I push the on button it goes to high. If I push it twice quickly it goes to low. When I push it again, off... no strobe.

Edit:
Yeah I see it has a strobe if I make it do that. But it's not something in the typical rotation so frankly until today I never knew it could.
Do I now all of a sudden hate it? Heavens no! :shakehead
I like it even more now. It has a UI that can go to strobe from off if one chooses to, or not if they don't. And being it takes 3 clicks to do it, it's not likely to happen accidently.
 
Last edited:

nitedrive

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
95
I've got to say I really like the XL50 and, even more, the XL200 interfaces. The only flaw with the XL200 is you can only adjust brightness/strobe rate when you first enter the mode. I wish you could press and hold the button to adjust while you are already in the mode. Either way, it's a very easy to use interface.
 

maglite mike

Enlightened
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
330
I've got to say I really like the XL50 and, even more, the XL200 interfaces. The only flaw with the XL200 is you can only adjust brightness/strobe rate when you first enter the mode. I wish you could press and hold the button to adjust while you are already in the mode. Either way, it's a very easy to use interface.

On the maglite xl 200 You can adjust the brightness by rotating the light by turning your risk while in the particular mode, keeping your thumb on the switch while doing this. You can adjust brightness, strobe speed etc on the fly.
 

nitedrive

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Apr 30, 2014
Messages
95
On the maglite xl 200 You can adjust the brightness by rotating the light by turning your risk while in the particular mode, keeping your thumb on the switch while doing this. You can adjust brightness, strobe speed etc on the fly.

But, unless they have change it since I got mine, you can't readjust the beam without turning off then back on.

Example, you turn on, set to low then in a few moments want to set to high. That is click-hold (on), twist (set to low), release button to lock the setting (set to low). Now when I want to set the light back to high I must click (off), click-hold (on), twist (set to high). Ideally I want to set back to high by (light already on), click-hold (light already on), wist (set to high). In this case the light never turns off.

I like that a click when on moves you straight to off but I wish a click-hold would bring you back into adjustment mode. In particular I find it odd to adjust the strobe setting. It's natural to double click into strobe but I rarely double-click-hold thus adjusting my strobe rate (admittedly rarely used) is double-click to strobe. Release the button, realize I want to change the strobe rate, turn light off, deliberately click-click-hold, adjust. It's just an annoying trait in an otherwise brilliant UI.


Example: Press and hold switch to turn on, tilt to change output. Now release button. Power level is set. But what if you want to change the output (higher or lower)? You can't just press and hold, tilt to new setting, release. Instead you must click once to turn off, then click and hold to both turn on and adjust the output. Same in strobe mode where once you set the rate the only way to change it is off-click-click-twist.
 
Top