Are Polarion HID's irrelevant or... Dead

At this point I am in a state of disbelief.

Maybe it's because I haven't been on CPF in quite a while. Perhaps the times have changed.

Whatever the case, I think it's safe to say HID's are no longer a big presence, even on CPF. Case in point: I am selling a Polarion PH50 for $650. $650 and no interest whatsoever, not even a reply or a PM. Yes I know it's not in perfect condition, it has its share of dings and whatnot, but at $650 I am practically giving away the light for free. This light originally sold for $2000+, and now I can't even get someone's interest. Not one PM, reply, or even an iota of interest.

I never thought this would happen. Is it just me or is the Polarion brand no longer relevant? At this point I am surpised no one's talking.

I'm not entirely sure this thread shouldn't be in the HID subforum instead ... but let's leave it here for now

Yes, I think advances in LED tech have progressively marginalized HID torches for all but the most specialized of applications :shrug:

LED has made major steps and is, or already is, catching up HID lights. Do think (Polarion)HID are still used mainly in specialized workplaces.
Since I started with my flashlight hobby, I admired Polarion lights. Still looking at the PH50 that a local dealer offers. But besides the high price, the problem is; are parts still available in 2, 3 or 5 years??
Polarion, for example, isn't a big brand here so getting new parts like a new battery pack, is almost impossible. Think that's what most collectors is holding off.

Parts are still available from Sparetech, which has a presence here on CPF. There is also Polarion of Korea, if necessary. Battery packs can be rebuilt as well, if you have the know how.

As mentioned, LED's have advanced greatly. I just purchased an LED flashlight with 500,000 lux (1414 meters throw) and it weighs 13 ounces including batteries!

HID are powerful lights, but from what I understand, heavy, bulky and not nearly as portable or convenient as an LED flashlight that you can slip into a jacket pocket.

Oh, and HID lights are expensive. My recent purchase described above was $175 including premium batteries!

MAD777 said:

As mentioned, LED's have advanced greatly. I just purchased an LED flashlight with 500,000 lux (1414 meters throw) and it weighs 13 ounces including batteries!

HID are powerful lights, but from what I understand, heavy, bulky and not nearly as portable or convenient as an LED flashlight that you can slip into a jacket pocket.

Oh, and HID lights are expensive. My recent purchase described above was $175 including premium batteries!

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Yes LED lights have more output on the cool side of the spectrum. There is no question about it. I agree with you on that point, but LED's have a long way to go in terms of color temperature, and therefore output and throw.

I am generalizing a bit here, but to get a similar color temperature of an incan/HID, you would likely gravitate towards a Nichia 219. Problem is even in a triple emitter setup, you won't get anywhere near as much output or throw as an HID. Let's just say you build an array of 10-12 Nichia emitters. Now you not only have to build an optic to focus those emitters, but to sink all the heat generated from those LED's. I can almost guarantee that the highest output won't last for more than a few minutes, even with a big battery pack. On that note, said light compared to an HID is most likely going to be very heavy and cumbersome. You are also looking at a very expensive custom light to build such a monstrosity.

So there you have it, HID just does it better than LED's, and people are blinded by output numbers.

The market in general is succesfully implimenting the laws of diminishing returns by selling promises of something that is "good enough".

The HID is huge!! But so is the price, which is also part of the issue. I'd have to speculate that there has always been a small market willing to pay $650 for a used light. Yet as our hobby continues to increase in popularity the demand for all things huge has been watered down by 850 lumen triple flashlights for $12 at your local Home Depot.

So again I'd speculate here but it seems as though as the demand for flashlights increases what constitutes "epic" is being watered down by the market forces being manipulated into the same-ole-sameness of the latest flashion-arey tacticool numbers at rock bottom prices.
1000 lumens for 12 seconds? Are you kidding me? But they sell... and there are people defending the notion of an instant "wow" that diminishes to a ho-hum output of say 30% of it's "turbo"...

I would even wager that the share of the market willing to pay $100 for a flashlight is less than say... 10 years ago... maybe 5?...

But the HID has probably always been a niche-iest of the niche genre regarding flashlights. As a combination of collector, consumer and seller it appears that the merits of an HID are becoming less and less prominent in this hobby compared to a few years ago.

Since arriving here in 015 I have met literally hundreds of people who enjoy the venerable flashlight hobby either online or in person. And unless you consider the plug in 12 volt spot light an HID, not a single one I've met owns one. Most marvel at them saying "haw, yeah man Ima get one of those someday", but yet pass by the mega lights at box stores because they cost $75....

The HID is like Levis denim jackets... not as popular as they once were but still have fans... you just have to find out where they are.
I know a guy with what could be considered the worlds most valuable collection of SureFires. And every so often he puts one on the market. Super-rare numbers that even PK says "holy cow that one is awesome"... but it is understood that it'll take a little while for it to sell.

bykfixer said:

The market in general is succesfully implimenting the laws of diminishing returns by selling promises of something that is "good enough".

The HID is huge!! But so is the price, which is also part of the issue. I'd have to speculate that there has always been a small market willing to pay $650 for a used light. Yet as our hobby continues to increase in popularity the demand for all things huge has been watered down by 850 lumen triple flashlights for $12 at your local Home Depot.

So again I'd speculate here but it seems as though as the demand for flashlights increases what constitutes "epic" is being watered down by the market forces being manipulated into the same-ole-sameness of the latest flashion-arey tacticool numbers at rock bottom prices.

I would even wager that the share of the market willing to pay $100 for a flashlight is less than say... 10 years ago... maybe 5?...

But the HID has probably always been a niche-iest of the niche genre regarding flashlights. As a combination of collector, consumer and seller the merits of an HID are becoming less and less prominent in this hobby.

Since arriving here in 015 I have met literally hundreds of people who enjoy the venerable flashlight hobby either online or in person. And unless you consider the plug in 12 volt spot light an HID, not a single one owns one. Most marvel at them saying "haw, yeah man Ima get one of those someday", but yet pass by the mega lights at box stores because they cost $75....

The HID is like Levis denim jackets... not as popular as they once were but still have fans... you just have to find out where they are.

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I agree with you that it is a market, and companies are trying to appeal to the "more lumens means it's better" crowd. I think most people don't look past the sole criteria of output, with the exception of function.

Unfortunately "value" and "cheap" are thought of as the same these days.

To me cheap is about as valuable as the sound a baby chicken makes and lasts about as long.

Value on the other hand is an investment that often means it costs $2 to get back $5.

I appreciate the quality of light produced by hids but there is a trade-off that has prevented me from buying one: the inherently long ramp. Just renders a hid useless for me

ma tumba said:

I appreciate the quality of light produced by hids but there is a trade-off that has prevented me from buying one: the inherently long ramp. Just renders a hid useless for me

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The Polarion PH50 peaks at about 10,000 lumens in a matter of seconds, and eventually tapers down to 5200... I'm not sure what your definition of "long" is, but it certainly isn't "instant on" like an LED.

dudemar said:

Yes LED lights have more output on the cool side of the spectrum. There is no question about it. I agree with you on that point, but LED's have a long way to go in terms of color temperature, and therefore output and throw.

I am generalizing a bit here, but to get a similar color temperature of an incan/HID, you would likely gravitate towards a Nichia 219. Problem is even in a triple emitter setup, you won't get anywhere near as much output or throw as an HID. Let's just say you build an array of 10-12 Nichia emitters. Now you not only have to build an optic to focus those emitters, but to sink all the heat generated from those LED's. I can almost guarantee that the highest output won't last for more than a few minutes, even with a big battery pack. On that note, said light compared to an HID is most likely going to be very heavy and cumbersome. You are also looking at a very expensive custom light to build such a monstrosity.

So there you have it, HID just does it better than LED's, and people are blinded by output numbers.

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You've been active here for a long time, but how familiar are you with what v54 (Sky Lumen) is doing these days ?

I think you might be surprised by the size, power, tint, throw ... and cost, of the latest custom mods :thinking:

Yes, HID and LED have different strengths and weaknesses, even still.

I say this as someone who has lights ranging from sublumen 5mm emitter, to multi-kilolumen power LED, and 40W+ HID.

I very much enjoy the light quality from my FF3, but HID have a number of relative disadvantages ....

● cost and inconvenience of bulb replacement
● often proprietary battery packs (costly and sometimes not readily available)
● ramp-up and restrike limitations
● potential (different) durability vulnerabilities
● size and price limitations

i feel your pain dudemar. i have a 40w polarion X1 collecting dust as i cant justify the cost of a new battery pack for it; and there seems to be little to no demand for a used HID.

HID, like any tech, has it's niche markets but there's always something that's eventually going to replace it in most applications.
Just like the gas lasers of the '70-'90s, they did and still do things that solid state can't compare to but most of them have been replaced by laser diodes.... They aren't superior in beam quality but size and efficiency is so much better, gas is out mode'd. There are still plenty of users but need to find that one guy.... That drives worth down.

It's a good thing this isn't in the HID subforum! The Polarions are compact, lightweight for what they are, throw like crazy, have fantastic color temp, and have great runtime at their stated output without stepdown. Niche? Perhaps. Awesome at what they do? Absolutely. Some may not be as compact or lightweight, but look at the XeVision 70w beamshots at 990 and 1230 yards. Tell me what's not to love...

Well put scout

I see mention of the HID subforum. There is one sticky topic in the HID subforum. The links in the sticky topic date way back, years ago, to a bygone era when teenagers did NOT say "I do not know what Led Zeppelin is, I just got this tee shirt from the Salvation Army."

I would like to see a "HID Comparative Buyers Guide", an infographic or other type of comparison chart, table or something containing the info, of what is currently on the hand-held HID playing field. This information would be targeted at newbs who are interested in hand held HID, but need to easily compare current offerings. This current information is needed in a sticky topic in the HID subforum.

@dudemar: Good luck with your sale. Your Polarion HID is relevant. If the person who is out there hunting for it could stumble upon your offering, he would gladly snap it up at your very nice price. You should give it time and list it globally.

richbuff said:

....
I would like to see a "HID Comparative Buyers Guide", an infographic or other type of comparison chart, table or something containing the info, of what is currently on the hand-held HID playing field. This information would be targeted at newbs who are interested in hand held HID, but need to easily compare current offerings. This current information is needed in a sticky topic in the HID subforum....

Click to expand...

That would be great ... is that something you could put together and post up ?

We usually try to limit "sticky" threads, but I can discuss with staff whether it might merit that status, after it is open for a while

I would love to learn more for sure

Thanks for offering me the chance to do this, but I am a total newb, so someone else would be better.