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Thread: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

  1. #31

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by iamlucky13 View Post
    ...It could be the slightly smaller size compared to the SC5c II is just enough to force them to downsize parts like the inductor used for boosting the voltage, such that getting much more than 250 lumens from a 1.2v source isn't really practical....
    Interesting. Yeah, you might be right. (Hope you're wrong).

    And I think that an H1 of 285 or so would be an absolute catastrophe for the SC62 upgrade [eta: sorry, meant SC52]. It's one thing to say that we don't need huge outputs in a headlamp. But in a regular flashlight configuration, a single-AA model that tops out at 285 is going to be dead in the water. That's so far from the cutting edge that it cannot even see the spine of the blade.
    Last edited by lampeDépêche; 04-24-2017 at 06:44 PM.

  2. #32

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    From ZL website"

    "new generation AA headlamp. smaller and brighter. price lowered to $59. no longer support 14500s."

    So far their posted specs say not very bright.
    EDC: ZL H52w, H502w

    The only useful tool is the one you have with you when you need it.

  3. #33

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
    From ZL website"

    "new generation AA headlamp. smaller and brighter....
    Huh, I had forgotten that. The H52 already got 300 lumens, so this h53 is not brighter.

    (I'm sure it has better tint, color, CRI, etc., and that's all good. But we want brighter, too, or at least *as* bright as it was on the 14500.)

  4. #34
    Flashaholic* stephenk's Avatar
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    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Whilst I'm surprised by the drop in 14500 support and turbo mode, 280 lumens is sufficient for most tasks. For example, I typically only use around 70 lumens for urban night running.

  5. #35

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Then there's the "Yeah, yeah, yeah 500 lumens from a AA size light, BUT for how long? And there's a step down?! *scoff* Why even bother." camp.
    Imalent, Armytek, Gearbest, and Banggood are still in business for the same reason Logan Paul is still making money.
    Imalent, Failure Imminent.

  6. #36

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by lampeDépêche View Post
    And I think that an H1 of 285 or so would be an absolute catastrophe for the SC62 upgrade. It's one thing to say that we don't need huge outputs in a headlamp. But in a regular flashlight configuration, a single-AA model that tops out at 285 is going to be dead in the water. That's so far from the cutting edge that it cannot even see the spine of the blade.
    I tend to agree (assuming you mean SC52, not 62). Maybe not a catastrophe, but they'd be ill advised to give up the extra power for the flashlight variant in the name of a small amount of space savings.

    Quote Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
    From ZL website"

    "new generation AA headlamp. smaller and brighter. price lowered to $59. no longer support 14500s."

    So far their posted specs say not very bright.
    They must be comparing to the H502C, which could only do 190 lumens. It was a full-flood, not a floody, but the H502 was the only style they offer a high CRI AA-powered headlamp for the current lineup.

  7. #37

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Got a response from ZL asking if there was going to be a boost mode for the H53c and the answer was a short No.

    Also asked if the clip will be compatible with my H52w and the answer was a short Yes.

    So size will not be that much different than the H52 series.

    Lack of boost therefore has nothing to do with heat dissipation (H52 series had boost to 500lm with 14500). Therefore lack of boost mode also has nothing to do with argument that you don't need that much lumen in a headlamp because the previous gen had it...and the one before it.

    So as suggested by iamlucky13, maybe the driver can't completely fit is the reason and then they choose to reduce the head size since no boost mode and that is where the size and weight savings are coming from.

  8. #38

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by mellowman View Post
    ...maybe the driver can't completely fit is the reason and then they choose to reduce the head size since no boost mode and that is where the size and weight savings are coming from.
    There's no reason to think that the head size is reduced. The size of the new head is listed as 0.86 inches, exactly the same as the H52 head. And the weight drop is exactly one gram, from 32 to 31. That probably just represents the fact that they shortened the battery tube by 0.1 inches. Given what we know now, I think we should picture this having basically the same size head as the H52 (and so same reflector).

    Quote Originally Posted by mellowman View Post
    Got a response from ZL asking if there was going to be a boost mode for the H53c and the answer was a short No.
    I am just baffled by that. Seems like a crazy move, totally in the wrong direction. On the other hand, I do not run a successful cutting edge technology company, and they do. So I should wait and see.

  9. #39

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    $6 less = no boost mode. You can't have everything.
    EDC: ZL H52w, H502w

    The only useful tool is the one you have with you when you need it.

  10. #40

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    yea, your right about the head size.

    So in the end new version brings 2 things 1.) new led which adds CRI and maybe better run times from more efficient led. and 2.) new driver which brings new G6 and G7 modes and drops 14500 support.

    Why not just stick with the old driver and add new led which would be a more compelling buy to me than how it is now.

  11. #41

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    that may just be pre-order price with price going up $6 after launch.

  12. #42

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    "But, but, I can't fit into this tiny head!"

    "Hey, that's no fair--I can't produce that much amperage!"

    "More and more magnetic flux--I'm saturated! I can't take it!"

    (Don't you hate listening to inductors whine?)

  13. #43

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by lampeDépêche View Post
    "But, but, I can't fit into this tiny head!"

    "Hey, that's no fair--I can't produce that much amperage!"

    "More and more magnetic flux--I'm saturated! I can't take it!"

    (Don't you hate listening to inductors whine?)
    the new led XP-L2 has lower forward voltage and current to achieve the same lumens than the previous gens XM-L2.

  14. #44

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by lampeDépêche View Post
    (Don't you hate listening to inductors whine?)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8sWGMdGMoE
    Last edited by iamlucky13; 04-25-2017 at 03:02 PM.

  15. #45
    Flashaholic*
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    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    I am skipping this for I so much prefer pure flood in headlamps. Could complain, too, about lumens, no 14500 support but the deal breaker is the beam type. Still have and use older version of H502d (170lm ?), would love to see higher cri version with the new UI

    EDIT: actually, on my old H502d, medium is also set from off by a double click, just like the new UI. So in this regards the new UI is a good old one.
    Last edited by ma tumba; 04-25-2017 at 02:01 PM.

  16. #46
    *Flashaholic* gunga's Avatar
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    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    I've really come to appreciate high cri, and slightly warmer tints. This headlamp will be definitely on my list.

  17. #47

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by gunga View Post
    I've really come to appreciate high cri, and slightly warmer tints. This headlamp will be definitely on my list.
    Hey, don't get me wrong: I have already pre-ordered one.

    The high cri, tint, and new programmable UI are all enough to get me interested. And I hope that they'll put out an H503 line of pure mules, as well.

    My only disappointment is about the H1 output level.

    This light will not replace my H52w as the indispensable EDC, if it lacks the capacity to put out 500 lumens now and then when needed.

  18. #48

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by lampeDépêche View Post
    Interesting. Yeah, you might be right. (Hope you're wrong).

    And I think that an H1 of 285 or so would be an absolute catastrophe for the SC62 upgrade [eta: sorry, meant SC52]. It's one thing to say that we don't need huge outputs in a headlamp. But in a regular flashlight configuration, a single-AA model that tops out at 285 is going to be dead in the water. That's so far from the cutting edge that it cannot even see the spine of the blade.
    I noticed the spot of the H52 is 12 degrees compared to that of the H53 which is 10 degrees. Wouldn't that put the intensity of the consistent 285 lumens of the H53c very close to the intensity of the former 500 lm boost level (maybe within 10%)? I'd appreciate any intelligent comments about this.

    (I'm not a light expert, so be gentle!)

  19. #49

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Welcome to the forums Genzod!

    That's an interesting point, although I'm not sure if Zebralight uses a consistent means of measuring their hotspot width - in most industries, lighting intensity falloff is marked at full width at half maximum is used, but a lot of people just eyeball apparent beam widths. One of their competitors, Armytek, I'm fairly certain does not use a consistent measure - I've seen beamshots of clearly different patterns between different Armytek models where they list the same beam width spec.

    Also, the amount of light that falls within the hotspot compared to in the flood can affect the hotspot intensity, too. I don't think we can infer too much simply from the hotspot width spec.

    It also would not affect those of us who prefer the floody beam versions.

  20. #50

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by iamlucky13 View Post
    Welcome to the forums Genzod!

    That's an interesting point, although I'm not sure if Zebralight uses a consistent means of measuring their hotspot width - in most industries, lighting intensity falloff is marked at full width at half maximum is used, but a lot of people just eyeball apparent beam widths. One of their competitors, Armytek, I'm fairly certain does not use a consistent measure - I've seen beamshots of clearly different patterns between different Armytek models where they list the same beam width spec.

    Also, the amount of light that falls within the hotspot compared to in the flood can affect the hotspot intensity, too. I don't think we can infer too much simply from the hotspot width spec.

    It also would not affect those of us who prefer the floody beam versions.
    I guess the intensity spec (cd) might prove useful to compare versions at max output then. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that ZL provides that information.

  21. #51

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by Genzod View Post
    I noticed the spot of the H52 is 12 degrees compared to that of the H53 which is 10 degrees. Wouldn't that put the intensity of the consistent 285 lumens of the H53c very close to the intensity of the former 500 lm boost level (maybe within 10%)?
    I'll take a crack at thinking this through, although I'm no expert, either. Feel free to correct me for my blunders.

    Let's say you took all of the illumination that one light puts into a 12-degree beam, and then focus it a bit more so that it puts the same amount into a 10-degree beam.

    How much more intense will it be?

    Suppose you shine a 12-degree beam and a 10-degree beam on the same flat wall, from the same distance. What is the difference in the area covered?

    The ratio of sin(6 degrees) to sin(5 degrees) is about 1.2: the radius of the larger circle will be about 6/5 the radius of the smaller circle. Squaring that for area, you can see that the larger circle covers about 1.44 times the area of the smaller circle.

    So if the smaller beam concentrates all of the lumens from the larger beam, it will have a light-density (lumens per area) that is 1.44 higher. Lumens per area is what lux measures, so its lux figure will be 1.44 times greater. 1.44 x 285 = 410, so the light with 285 lumens in a 10-degree hotspot has the same intensity as the light with 410 lumens in a 12-degree hotspot.

    How does this apply to the two ZL lights? Well, if we make a *lot* of simplifying assumptions about beam shape, diffusion, light-density across different regions, and so on, then it suggests that the hot-spot of the H53 will be about 80% of the brightness (intensity, lux) of the hot-spot of the old H52.

    That's the good news. The bad news is that it covers only 2/3s of the same area (it's a smaller spot), and it generally puts out only half the light.

    Light intensity isn't everything. There's a reason that most of us care more about lumens than about lux. Especially in a general-purpose, non-thrower light like the ZLs--no one is going to buy a Zebralight for its lux figures.

    So although you are not wrong when you say that "the intensity...of the H53c" will be "very close to the intensity of the former 500 lm boost level", I think you are bit off in your 10% guess, and I also think that this point does not really address the concerns of those of us who care about total output.

  22. #52

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    I am a bit confused about the new multiple group mode. How does it work?

  23. #53

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by lonelyboy View Post
    I am a bit confused about the new multiple group mode. How does it work?
    each of the 3 mode groups can be configured to have its own combination of output levels.
    you choose the mode group to use.
    group 5 is the default chosen out of the box.
    you can follow the instructions to change it to either group 6 or 7.
    see instructions regarding the limitations of group 5 and the flexibility of the other 2.
    Imalent, Armytek, Gearbest, and Banggood are still in business for the same reason Logan Paul is still making money.
    Imalent, Failure Imminent.

  24. #54

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by lampeDépêche View Post
    I'll take a crack at thinking this through, although I'm no expert, either. Feel free to correct me for my blunders.

    Let's say you took all of the illumination that one light puts into a 12-degree beam, and then focus it a bit more so that it puts the same amount into a 10-degree beam.

    How much more intense will it be?

    Suppose you shine a 12-degree beam and a 10-degree beam on the same flat wall, from the same distance. What is the difference in the area covered?

    The ratio of sin(6 degrees) to sin(5 degrees) is about 1.2: the radius of the larger circle will be about 6/5 the radius of the smaller circle. Squaring that for area, you can see that the larger circle covers about 1.44 times the area of the smaller circle.

    So if the smaller beam concentrates all of the lumens from the larger beam, it will have a light-density (lumens per area) that is 1.44 higher. Lumens per area is what lux measures, so its lux figure will be 1.44 times greater. 1.44 x 285 = 410, so the light with 285 lumens in a 10-degree hotspot has the same intensity as the light with 410 lumens in a 12-degree hotspot.

    How does this apply to the two ZL lights? Well, if we make a *lot* of simplifying assumptions about beam shape, diffusion, light-density across different regions, and so on, then it suggests that the hot-spot of the H53 will be about 80% of the brightness (intensity, lux) of the hot-spot of the old H52.

    That's the good news. The bad news is that it covers only 2/3s of the same area (it's a smaller spot), and it generally puts out only half the light.

    Light intensity isn't everything. There's a reason that most of us care more about lumens than about lux. Especially in a general-purpose, non-thrower light like the ZLs--no one is going to buy a Zebralight for its lux figures.

    So although you are not wrong when you say that "the intensity...of the H53c" will be "very close to the intensity of the former 500 lm boost level", I think you are bit off in your 10% guess, and I also think that this point does not really address the concerns of those of us who care about total output.
    I apologize for the errant 10% figure. I had worked an actual equation earlier and later submitted a rounded-off-by-memory figure, which wasn't intentional (some of us are just getting old ). The intensities are 14526 and 11920 cd using the mathematical relationship between luminous power and luminous intensity, bringing intensities within 18% of each other (Luminous power gap is 43%, which now isn't exactly as bad as i thought).

    It wasn't my purpose to dismiss those who are concerned about total output, or suggest that intensity is everything. In fact, I was with those here who have expressed their disappointment that the headlamp doesn't support the former boost level. I probably still am. It would have been a much better product I think. My actual intention was to suggest that all was not lost.

    In my case, I was hoping The H53 would much like the new ZL AA handheld support a maximum output in the 450-500 range so I would have enough momentary light to check for trail blazes at a large distance. Finally seeing the max power was 285 lumens made my heart sink.

    In studying the physics, I realized that perhaps all I really needed to effectively see that distant trail blaze was luminous intensity not necessarily luminous power. Size of the tree all at once, no, but tiny painted trail marker, yes.

    So I worked the equation and realized the H53 could do the job of a 410 lm lamp with the old spill angle. I found that great to know, crossed my fingers that I had reasoned correctly and if correct, had hoped other's might find that fact reassuring.

    Thanks for responding to my question for help and doing all that work to check me. I appreciate it. H53c is still on my options list! Sure wish it had an infinite rotary output selector though. Some of the headlamps I've seen that have them aren't exactly ZL's in quality, price or weight.

  25. #55

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Concerning the last comment I made, before a mob of experts jumps on me for the crime of *photonic blasphemy*, I do realize that all the power of the beams (H52 and H53) is not concentrated exclusively into the spot. That is why it was my original intention to state "maybe 18%" (even though I misstated it as "10%" in the original post.) The use of the equation was to make a ballpark comparison not an exacting calculation.

  26. #56

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Yeah, Genzod, I think our numbers are pretty much in line. I said "80%", i.e. 20% lower, but that's pretty much the same as your 82% or 18% lower.

    I just knocked off another significant digit because of all of the slop in the calculation, as well as the points you make about how much of the light is concentrated in the hotspot.

    You mention an application in which throw does matter, namely spotting trail-blazes at a distance. And you are right, for that application the new one should be about as good as the old.

    I just hate to move *backwards,* when everything else in LED land keeps moving *forwards*!

    But like I said, I have pre-ordered this one already, and I will be excited to try it out and see how it works in the hand. Good tint and CRI can make up for quite a bit of difference in lumens.

  27. #57

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by lampeDépêche View Post
    Yeah, Genzod, I think our numbers are pretty much in line. I said "80%", i.e. 20% lower, but that's pretty much the same as your 82% or 18% lower.

    I just knocked off another significant digit because of all of the slop in the calculation, as well as the points you make about how much of the light is concentrated in the hotspot.

    You mention an application in which throw does matter, namely spotting trail-blazes at a distance. And you are right, for that application the new one should be about as good as the old.

    I just hate to move *backwards,* when everything else in LED land keeps moving *forwards*!

    But like I said, I have pre-ordered this one already, and I will be excited to try it out and see how it works in the hand. Good tint and CRI can make up for quite a bit of difference in lumens.

    I agree. It does seem like a step backward.

    Remember though, ZL noted on their comparison spec sheet that this "new generation" headlamp is *brighter*. If the max power in the H53 is substantially lower than the boost of the H52, it would seem the only way to explain this conundrum is the intensity spec of the H53 trumps the H52.

    The way we worked the 82/18% makes an assumption that you start with a given level of luminous power in the spot and then concentrating it from 12 to 10 degrees. If the H53 does have a higher intensity (in candela), that would require higher luminous power in the H53 spot before we mathematically concentrated it. Or our mistake is as the previous poster suggested, there is no way of knowing how consistent ZL is with their spot angles and making conjectures with them are pointless.

    I guess someone with a hotline to ZL could ask them this question: What is the basis for saying on their comparison sheet the H53c is "brighter" than the previous generation? Or we could wait until May, and all you geniuses here can figure it all out. In the meantime. I think I'm just going to have to get busy and start pulling out all of my hair.
    Last edited by Genzod; 04-27-2017 at 10:04 AM. Reason: I-->It

  28. #58

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    you may be over thinking this as the listed light output specs are for eneloops so technically H53c is brighter comparing same bats by ~5 lumens vs H52w, if you ignore 14500 and again just compare both using an eneloop.

  29. #59

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    I think maybe there's a reasonable answer to why the H53c is *brighter* than the H52w. 5 lumens brighter in the H1 slot (280 lm to 285 lm). Must be that simple.

    When I went back to check this, I looked at the spot/spill angles again on the H52w and H53c. Now they both have 12 degree spot angles. I am certain I read 10 degrees, and the only place I could have read that was on the ZL product page, haha. I'm wondering if ZL read this thread and realized a typo error in their spot/spill specs?

    I went to Google just now and searched "H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI" and looked at the angles in the CACHED page. Sure enough, there it is, 10 degrees! They DID change it.

  30. #60

    Default Re: New H53c AA Headlamp Neutral White High CRI!

    Quote Originally Posted by mellowman View Post
    you may be over thinking this as the listed light output specs are for eneloops so technically H53c is brighter comparing same bats by ~5 lumens vs H52w, if you ignore 14500 and again just compare both using an eneloop.
    Exactly. I just posted this exact theory while rechecking the product pages. Also note the products specs changed. I wasn't over thinking it. It was based on data that ZL changed while I wasn't looking.

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