Philips Vision 921 Gen2

Magio

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So I bought some Philips 921s at Pep Boys and they look different from the 921s shown on Philips website. Seems they are a new version. I was wondering if they are as good as the old version and if so should I take them back and find someone who has stock of the old version. They look more like cheap Chinese knockoffs than the old version did.

 

Magio

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How did I miss that thread? Oh well. Thanks Virgil. Be sending these back for sure. If I wanted cheap bulbs I could have bought some out of China, for much cheaper.
 

jzchen

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Any good 921 for backup lamps please? (2014 Scion iQ).

Thank you.

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Mr. Merk

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From what I understand, there are no good 921 replacements. 921 is as good as it gets.

The guy who took my place as Service Manager at the GMC dealership just tried to put LEDs in the CHMSL of his 2005 GMC truck and it caused his cruise control to become inoperative!

I also found out that he replaced every exterior bulb with LEDs, and most of the lamps with "smoked" eBay garbage. I nearly stroked out before doing my best Daniel Stern impression via email. Doubt I got through to him, but I'm hoping for the best with fingers crossed.
 

jzchen

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Thank you. There used to be a good LED one, the prior version. Virgil said to get them while they're hot so to speak, as they were being discontinued. Should have listened....

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-Virgil-

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From what I understand, there are no good 921 replacements.

The first-gen Philips was pretty good (so of course they discontinued it...).
But this one is similar, optically, to the first-gen Philips, and it works well in applications that don't need light straight out the front of the bulb.

What I haven't yet seen is a good red 921 for CHMSLs. A 6000K white bulb behind a red lens is on the "never, ever do this" list.
 

jzchen

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...and it works well in applications that don't need light straight out the front of the bulb.

If I recall correctly that's called a freznl optic lamp? (I tried to remember it). Thanks for putting it in layman's terms Virgil.

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Alaric Darconville

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If I recall correctly that's called a freznl optic lamp? (I tried to remember it).
Fresnel, usually "fray-NEL" but sometimes pronounced "FREZ-nel". But the issue here is that the 'front' of the bulb is what we'd ordinarily call the 'top' of the bulb; the Philips LED units put light out of the sides but if you look at the top of the bulb, there are no exposed emitters (unlike the filament bulbs where the filament is exposed in very nearly all directions except where the base blocks it).
 
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jzchen

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Thank you Alaric for correcting me, (both on spelling and pronunciation).

Good to know there's another option to try, to perform all the tests I performed last time with the Prius v.

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jzchen

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The racks of the one this morning were empty except one single ZEVO pack. Made me nervous. We have stay home orders from the governor maybe I'll try to run in the morning to the other one. Just glancing looks like the last one...

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Ofelas

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I may have a spare (unused) twin pack of the original Philips 921 LED bulbs, I will post here if I find them.
 

-Virgil-

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I'm seeing pics of both the old/lame design and this new/promising design here. Seems likely the new design is being phased into distribution. It will probably take awhile for the old design to flush out of the pipelines.
 

Ofelas

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Hey nice find!

DS pointed me to a nice translucent paint that I sprayed my cargo lamp lens with, and used a red SBL LED for, as a CHMSL on one of my off-road vehicles, after wiring the cold side of my brake switch to the cargo lamp circuit.

I'd much rather use an Osram red LED - for a CHMSL - any difference in the two types of Osram W16W LEDs you linked to above, or would they function similarly behind a flat cargo light lens?

I don't remember whether that 921 was mounted straight into the socket or whether the socket was sideways behind the lens.

More interested in max visibility from my six, rather than illuminating the bed.
 

Alaric Darconville

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Hey nice find!

DS pointed me to a nice translucent paint that I sprayed my cargo lamp lens with
If it was Dupli-Color MetalCast Red, that's transparent, not translucent-- images seen through an optically clear plastic sprayed with it still retain clarity, as opposed to translucent where things would be blurry. Compare a plain sheet of glass to frosted glass for another illustration of "transparent" vs "translucent". Of course, using most WHITE LEDs behind it will result in a disappointing pinkish-brown light because they are typically a high CCT. In the absence of a good neutral CCT white LED, opt for a red LED or just an incandescent instead.
 

-Virgil-

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DS pointed me to a nice translucent paint that I sprayed my cargo lamp lens with, and used a red SBL LED for, as a CHMSL on one of my off-road vehicles, after wiring the cold side of my brake switch to the cargo lamp circuit.

Hmm. It's an off-road vehicle, then who's behind you in dense, distracted traffic to need a CHMSL so they don't run into you? That's one. Two, a cargo light projects almost zero light straight back. Most of its light is directed downward toward the truck bed. They don't make suitable CHMSLs no matter what color the lens is painted or what kind of bulb is installed.

I'd much rather use an Osram red LED - for a CHMSL - any difference in the two types of Osram W16W LEDs you linked to above, or would they function similarly behind a flat cargo light lens?

They're totally different in terms of number, placement, and type of LEDs, so yeah, they're going to work differently. It can't be predicted how they'll work or if they'll work or how well they're going to work.

More interested in max visibility from my six, rather than illuminating the bed.

That's going to take a different kind of lamp, not just a different kind/color of bulb. Maybe look to adapt a combination CHMSL/cargo light from a '94-up truck, or mount a rooftop LED CHMSL like the one used on the GMC Safari/Chevrolet Astro vans or the Ford Transit Connect vans through 2013.
 

Ofelas

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Wish I remembered what brand of paint it was.

If it was Dupli-Color MetalCast Red, that's transparent, not translucent-- images seen through an optically clear plastic sprayed with it still retain clarity, as opposed to translucent where things would be blurry. Compare a plain sheet of glass to frosted glass for another illustration of "transparent" vs "translucent". Of course, using most WHITE LEDs behind it will result in a disappointing pinkish-brown light because they are typically a high CCT. In the absence of a good neutral CCT white LED, opt for a red LED or just an incandescent instead.

There's just a few of us that go out playing, reason I installed mine was I found it far easier to predict the feller in front of me's braking/sliding when I saw his CHMSL. Observing my CHMSL while behind it at a couple different distances, it sure seems instantly visible, & better than not having one at all I suppose.

I'll see what I come up with as far as what I may have laying around the parts bin. I think I have a Jeep CHMSL kicking around somewhere, will take a bit of creative grinding to get it fitting well. If I remember right that took a 921.

Which of the two types of Osram 921 red LEDs would work better in the '03 Jeep CHMSL?

Cheers

Hmm. It's an off-road vehicle, then who's behind you in dense, distracted traffic to need a CHMSL so they don't run into you? That's one. Two, a cargo light projects almost zero light straight back. Most of its light is directed downward toward the truck bed. They don't make suitable CHMSLs no matter what color the lens is painted or what kind of bulb is installed.



They're totally different in terms of number, placement, and type of LEDs, so yeah, they're going to work differently. It can't be predicted how they'll work or if they'll work or how well they're going to work.



That's going to take a different kind of lamp, not just a different kind/color of bulb. Maybe look to adapt a combination CHMSL/cargo light from a '94-up truck, or mount a rooftop LED CHMSL like the one used on the GMC Safari/Chevrolet Astro vans or the Ford Transit Connect vans through 2013.
 
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Alaric Darconville

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Observing my CHMSL while behind it at a couple different distances, it sure seems instantly visible, & better than not having one at all I suppose.

While your repurposed truck bed light might be detected when directly observing, the trick is for the CHMSL to alert a driver when they're not staring at it waiting for it to go off. This is why a real CHMSL has a specific pattern. A truck bed light is designed to light up the truck bed, not provide a warning to other drivers. What's worse than "not having one at all"? Thinking you can rely on the wrong lamp assembly to provide warning to others. Essentially, you still don't have one at all but consider yourself in a position where it is. While in SOME WAYS it is better-- you have a red lamp to the rear, it's just not better than having nothing at all.

Also, what about the regular stop lamps on the vehicle?
 
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