Has anybody dissected an Armytek or know what makes them rated so much tougher?

Chad Varnadore

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We just got our first Armytek headlamp after losing a Skilhunt headlamp to 5 foot drop onto concrete, and I'm trying to figure, without gutting it myself, what they're doing different to justify a 10 meter impact resistance when everyone else can barely do 1-2 meters. Or even more substantial, the 30 meter vs 1-2 meters rating of their tactical line. 100 feet drop resistance almost implies they're not to be believed, compared to about 5 feet for most of their competition. The Wizard Pro (XHP50) headlamp has a bit beefier body, but doesn't really feel any heavier. I doubt thicker casing would mean much anyway. Unless the electronics are somehow insulated from the casing to dampen the shock of such an impact, I can't see how it might be effective. But, I'm not an engineer. And since there's no rubberized or other external coating to absorb shock, I'm wondering what's going on. Are these lights really as tough as they claim? Or is Armytek just betting against the likelihood of accidents?
 

ven

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Can't comment on the latest versions, but plenty of YouTube vids showing the older predator being abused. Driving over, crazy drops etc etc. So imo yes they are tough lights from what I have seen. Their weakness seems to be actual driver gremlins on newer models(mode glitches etc).
 

eh4

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I took my first predator pro apart, thankfully it's only failure had been losing the strobe mode, which was a beneficial failure to me, it's a keeper just the way it is.
Luckily my curiosity had been satisfied so I didn't void the warranty on my second one, which failed completely, down to a low mode only and some dim flashes.

Anyway, the there is a really nice host with a beautiful reflector, and a potted metal pill, which looks a lot like you'd expect.
I did not actually remove the pill, just took the light far enough apart to see that I'd gotten to the sealant and magic smoke part.

If I could find a driver that made use of the head tighten/loosen circuit, I'd be inclined to try making interchangeable pills for the light.
All of the toughness seems to be in the host and the potting compound IMO.
Not so sure about the sourced components and quality of solder joints within.

It would be pretty neat if a custom builder here came up with high quality replacement pills for predator hosts, select options when ordering, or if some highly customizable driver like Dr. Jones' were installed.
 
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Treeguy

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Is there any kind of consensus these days on the quality of the Armytek lights? I know there was a lot of talk before (many months ago) about less-than-reliable functioning.
 

mickb

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I have a v2.5 predator with no problems but getting a pflexpro to replace it for remote work. There is a difference between environmental ratings and quality. Things can be made to survive certain specific non destructive tests tests but does not mean it will work longer than another light.
 

ven

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Elzetta Design and Malkoff Devices have fully potted electronics, extreme impact resistance, and a far better track record of quality control. Not dissing AT, just expanding the discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ozstdsnHNs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIa96YjsRbY


Zebralight also! Sure HDS are as well..............

Being honest, potted or not does not matter too much to me, i certainly dont buy a light around that factor anyway. Can work both ways, any issue then usually a write off as very difficult to get into. Potting itself can cause issues later in life. IMHO if the light is put together properly, good solder and components...............potting should not be required unless you need the water resistant benefit. Not many change batteries under water these days..............other than OR! Which too add was very cool.................:)

Just IMO, not saying i am right, just saying to me having a light potted is not that important and had many lights that have took some serious abuse without even a flicker.

Read a few issues with elzetta on here, QC and customer................malkoff though.............yep he the daddy!
 

Lou Minescence

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I have seen pictures of gutted out Wizard headlamps on Budgetlight forums. I cant provide a link but they are or were there. The thread I remember was of a Wizard XPL that had cooked itsself and was taken apart to be rebuilt.
I was trying to figure out how to remove the lense ring to replace the lense myself on my light. That is how I found the pictures on BLF. One of my Wizards had a broken lense after a 4 ft drop. It did not break until the next day. It wasnt broken when I picked it up after the drop. After reading a few threads I found it is not uncommon for the textured lenses of the Wizards to break. I would guess the electronics are durable as long as they do not overheat. Overheating was common on the XPL models of Wizards.
 

Modernflame

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Zebralight also! Sure HDS are as well..............

Being honest, potted or not does not matter too much to me, i certainly dont buy a light around that factor anyway. Can work both ways, any issue then usually a write off as very difficult to get into. Potting itself can cause issues later in life. IMHO if the light is put together properly, good solder and components...............potting should not be required unless you need the water resistant benefit. Not many change batteries under water these days..............other than OR! Which too add was very cool.................:)

Just IMO, not saying i am right, just saying to me having a light potted is not that important and had many lights that have took some serious abuse without even a flicker.

Read a few issues with elzetta on here, QC and customer................malkoff though.............yep he the daddy!

Nothing is perfect. Every manufacturer has to deal with warranty issues, but in my mind it's about the failure rate. Elzetta and Malkoff seem to have a failure rate far lower than average and impact resistance much higher than average.

I phrase it this way because I try to stay away from anecdotal evidence. One person says that brand X failed, another person swears by that brand. Personally, I've experienced multiple flashlight failures, none of which were my favorite brands, but that still isn't the reason I swear by them. An Elzetta is objectively more rugged than most other things on the market.
 

ven

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I have been pretty lucky i guess modernflame,agree back up with and if things do go wrong is very important. Shipping to China is certainly not good! The odd manufacturer i have dropped completely no matter what. Fenix to name one Chinese manufacturer, on two occasions have sent out parts issue free which i can not fault. Being in the UK kind of makes it less important(send back to USA or send to China), granted i would rather send to USA(never had the need!) over China. But either way for me, i have to return back out of the country and a minimum of 3 week turnaround. Elzetta make some nice lights, not had the pleasure yet but find what they offer does not suit my applications. Surefire i have a few and love them for hosts(dont have any new ones, or ones with their actual LED's being a bit of an LED/tint snob ).

Its good to have choices, i certainly love my USA made , but also have some great Chinese lights with latest LED and driver options. Tools for fun, tools for the tough stuff:)
 

Swedpat

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The OP question is justified. I really don't believe in that Armyteks are 10+ times tougher than the competitors...
My suspicion is that the claims of Armytek are a bit exaggerated and the competitors are underrated.
 

eh4

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I think that the bodies are tough, the battery tubes are thick, double o rings are nice.
I don't know, but I felt like the manufacture changed hands after they got their initial marketing pump, if the pill were assembled with lead solder and good soldering technique, with premium components, then they'd be one of the best lights around, from my current state of ignorance.
I'm really waiting for a custom builder to create a premium pill for the Predator.
 

Chad Varnadore

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The OP question is justified. I really don't believe in that Armyteks are 10+ times tougher than the competitors...
My suspicion is that the claims of Armytek are a bit exaggerated and the competitors are underrated.

Thanks. That's my suspicion as well, though I'm not so sure about the competition being underrated, as I've seen far too many videos of lights going out right at or around the 1.5 meter claims and I've got a Skillhunt that did as well. Most of the videos I saw they were dropping the light onto concrete or something else rock hard, sometimes a rock itself. They would usually drop it 2-5 times from the max rated height and then go a little beyond that, like holding the light at or above head height. A few failed within the max distance rating, but most failed after 2-3 drops above the max. And they were doing controlled drops where the light landed on it's side, which to me would seemingly be better than landing on it's head. Whether the light was on or not also seemed to make a significant difference. Obviously, a drop onto concrete is going to send much more shock through the electronics than a drop onto dirt, sand, or grass. The Skilhunt fell about 5-6 feet and impacted directly on the head - probably the worst place for it to have hit - onto concrete. The outside of the light still looks practically flawless, except for a bit of paint scratched off the very corner of the head, which is why I presume that's where it first contacted. Nothing rattles inside. The lens isn't cracked. It just won't turn on anymore. Actually, it would come on initially, but only about 1 in 5 tries and it often wouldn't stay on or switching modes would cause it to blink off. Now it won't come on for more than a second, if that. So, it would seem the LED itself is fine.

From everything I've found, it doesn't appear that Armytek has any manner of shock absorption inside. So that leads me to the following assumptions: If their light really can take an impact at 33 feet, it's likely an subjective claim based on falling onto a softer surface than say, concrete or wood. Or, in addition to optimal soldering, etc., maybe they've positioned the electronics inside the light in such a way that they wouldn't be directly affected by any impact at that height. Or, lastly, they're simply gambling, whether blindly or based on extensive drop testing of their own, that the light is unlikely to impact any key area that could result in damage to the electronics inside, so warranty claims justified by impact damage should be rare enough that the losses they absorb would be outweighed by the sells they receive based on their marketing claims - assuming their warranty isn't like ebay, just smoke and mirrors. With more of the weight being in the battery, maybe that makes the light more likely to impact on the tail end. Though, that wasn't the case with the Skilhunt, which was probably even more battery heavy due to an even lighter head than the Wizard. The Wizard is only slightly tail heavy, so maybe it'll be less likely to spin when dropped and more likely to hit on it's side. Just brainstorming here.

I think that the bodies are tough, the battery tubes are thick, double o rings are nice.
I don't know, but I felt like the manufacture changed hands after they got their initial marketing pump, if the pill were assembled with lead solder and good soldering technique, with premium components, then they'd be one of the best lights around, from my current state of ignorance.
I'm really waiting for a custom builder to create a premium pill for the Predator.

I just compared it with the Skilhunt and sure enough the battery cylinder does appear thicker on the Wizard.

From everything I've read here and elsewhere, it would seem that most regard Armytek to at least be among the better brands in terms of build quality. But such praise is tempered by mention of questionable QC more often than not. It is also my impression that most don't regard them high enough to trade features/performance for claimed durability/warranty. Which was part of the purpose behind my initial post, as I've been trying to decide between an Armytek Viking Pro with the XHP50 and the Nitecore TM03 which has the XHP70 and an interface that I subjectively prefer. If the Armytek is indeed better built and dramatically more reliable, for me it's a no-brainer. But, if it's not... if you're really just paying for a promise of repair, rather than genuinely superior construction, I'd opt for the Nitecore and maybe buy accident protection, if I was really concerned about something happening.

I wonder what Armytek's 10 year warranty actually covers, if it's a one-and-done type warranty or if they're saying they cover every incident of failure to the light for a period of 10 years.


Thanks to everyone who has replied.
 
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lumen aeternum

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Does the ANSI standard drop test specify a starting orientation? Probably. So you can optimize for that, make sure it falls straight on its axis & maybe has a spring on that end.

OTOH in the real world things tumble and hit a rock randomly.
 
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