NITECORE -- Keep Innovating        
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 87

Thread: To Zebralight

  1. #31
    Moderator
    nbp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    9,811

    Default To Zebralight

    Nichia!, lighten up. If you don't want people to comment on your thread, send an email to ZL rather than post about it. No one else here can do anything to change their flashlights aside from discuss it with you anyways.

  2. #32
    Flashaholic* Tachead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Northwestern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,860

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichia! View Post
    This thread is to Zebralight and not for You! You can be Polite ( if you can ) or please leave this thread.
    This is a public thread sir and I was not trying to be rude. I was simply letting you know the facts so you don't perpetuate false information.

  3. #33
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    ?
    Posts
    2,049

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    I welcome anyone and everyone. But people should be more polite when they talk to others. And it's not a false info as you can see above. to me it's still some kind of PWM.

    back to the topic please

  4. #34

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Again, I quote ZL's reply on the matter (you can find this on another ZL thread but I forget which one):
    "Constant current regulators always use a feed back circuitry to measure the output current (that passes through the LED) and adjust the supplying power (up and down) to the LED accordingly. The action itself has (up and down) ripples. Good circuitry designs usually make the ripples so minuscule and/or fast enough, relative to the LED output, that they won't be seen by human eyes.
    You'll need a digital camera with a global shutter (rather than a typical rolling shutter) or a traditional film camera to detect flashlight PWMs properly
    ."

  5. #35
    Flashaholic* Tachead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Northwestern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,860

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichia! View Post
    I welcome anyone and everyone. But people should be more polite when they talk to others. And it's not a false info as you can see above. to me it's still some kind of PWM.

    back to the topic please
    As I said, I was not trying to be rude. You have to understand that written text is easy to misunderstand or take the wrong way. I'm sorry if I came off as being rude to you.

    Yes it is false info because it is not PWM and that is confirmed by the manufacturer. Just because you think that an anomaly, that can only be seen by putting your cell phone camera a centimeter from the lens, is detrimental or negative in some way doesn't mean it is. You really have no idea why the circuit is designed that way or why it does what it does. Maybe it has to do with efficiency, is a byproduct of using a certain type of component, is routine feedback circuit noise, is something to do with the firmware, etc. who knows. Well, ZL knows and I am sure they did it for a reason. They make what are likely the most advance drivers in the flashlight industry so, I am pretty sure they know what they are doing and are not cutting corners. Just look at this beautiful piece of engineering, it makes most other flashlight's electronics seem like they are primitive by comparison...




  6. #36
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ukraine, Odesa
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichia! View Post
    Hi ZL

    1. Please bring back Springs. No more pogo pins please!
    2. No more Battery Rattles.
    3. Perfect anodizing.
    4. And if you could could you just make them PWM FREE Please?
    5. This one is Special and let's just say am dreaming of Nichia 219b Hi CRI SC64!
    1- pogo pins is good solution for high current.
    new H600*** IV will be with springs, is will support 65-69mm 18650, but performance in turbo mode will be reduced.

    3- All my Zebralight 's has excellent anodizing, better than my other flashlights.

    4 -All Zebralight 's models, as I know, don't use PWM, small flicker (few kHz, small %) at low modes isn't visible.

    5. Nichia 219b is middle-current LED, Zebralight currently use only hi-current Cree LED's.
    Good CRI and tint ? CRI is good, but Zebra use hi-CRI Cree XHP50 & XP-L2 .
    Some of 219b has nice tint (I have few with 219 b / c), but not excellent.

    ( My flashlight with Osram CQAR.CC has excellent color rendering and tint, better than 219b/c, but these LEDs is middle-current (1.5A max.), moderate performance (lm/w is lower, than for hiCRi Cree).)

  7. #37
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ukraine, Odesa
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by TCY View Post
    "Constant current regulators always use a feed back circuitry to measure the output current (that passes through the LED) and adjust the supplying power (up and down) to the LED accordingly. The action itself has (up and down) ripples. Good circuitry designs usually make the ripples so minuscule and/or fast enough, relative to the LED output, that they won't be seen by human eyes.
    You'll need a digital camera with a global shutter (rather than a typical rolling shutter) or a traditional film camera to detect flashlight PWMs properly
    ."
    Yes, all flashlights with DC-DC current regulators has some flicker.
    And all flashlights with (MOSFET-based) linear driver too.
    If flicker is low (few kHz, few %) - it's completely not visible.

    I'm very sensitive for {pwm and flicker}, but can't see any difference, if flicker has few % on 8 kHz.

  8. #38
    Flashaholic* Derek Dean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Monterey, CA
    Posts
    2,337

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichia! View Post
    Hi ZL

    I want to say Hello and I love your products very much and I really wish that you listen to our voices

    Please Could just do the following to SC600 IV & SC64 Series.

    1. Please bring back Springs. No more pogo pins please!

    2. No more Battery Rattles.

    3. Perfect anodizing.

    4. And if you could could you just make them PWM FREE Please?

    5. This one is Special and let's just say am dreaming of Nichia 219b Hi CRI SC64!
    Howdy Nichia!,

    As far as your list of concerns goes:
    1. Pogo Pins: I have no problem with the pogo pins, but I would probably prefer springs with some type of heavy duty wire connector attached. I've seen it done on my custom high current lights, so I know it's possible. I'm also a big fan of springs at both ends of the tube to help prevent accidental light off from a sudden jarring motion.
    2. Battery Rattle: I imagine this is a tricky one for manufacturers. Make the tubes a bit too small and folks will complain that their favorite battery doesn't fit. Make them a bit larger to fit most available batteries, as well as new ones that might come in the future, and people complain about battery rattle. I imagine it's also possible that during an extreme usage situation (high current for an extended period), a battery might expand a bit, so it's quite possible that ZL (as they do with many of their design decisions) is playing it safe. If battery rattle is bothering you, wrap a small piece of paper part way around the battery, just enough to stop the rattle. My reasoning is that it's better to have the tube a bit too big rather than a bit too small.
    3. Perfect Anodizing: Perfection costs a lot of money. I've gotten four lights with no flaws, maybe you just got unlucky a few times. I do expect my $100 flashlight to perform as advertised, but I'm a bit more flexible when it comes to it's appearance. Different color tails caps and bodies don't bother me. A small bit of missing ano probably wouldn't bother me, but if it did, I'd use ZL's 30 day return policy, pay to return the light, and then buy another one to see if I got a better ano job.
    4. Ah yes, the PWM question: I've never seen any hint of PWM in any of my ZL lights (and I've looked), and I'm typically quite sensitive to it. My question to you is this: I'm interested in knowing, in particular, what you've noticed while using your light that is an issue related to PWM. ZL is known for their amazingly stable, efficient, and quite usable lower output levels. If you're seeing flickering, it's quite possible you have a defective light.
    5. Nichia 219b Hi CRI: I finally stopped waiting for ZL to do that and found a modder here on CPF to mod my SC600 (old style with removable bezel) with a triple Nichia 219 setup. This is the light I use at work every night, and it's stupendous, so keep asking, and while your at it, ask them to do a TRIPLE Nichia 219b. the central hot spot is HUGE : )

    If I did want to add anything to your list, it would be this:
    6. Extreme Lower Levels on the rise: When you increase the output of your lights, please don't increase the lowest levels to try and keep the levels perfectly spaced. The ZL super low levels are your trademark, and your loyal customers LOVE and USE those super extreme low levels. I'd rather have those super low .01 and .05 levels, and give up a bit of the perfect spacing you are trying to achieve...... or even better........ give us a new driver with 14 or 16 choices in output, rather than the current 12. That way we can have our higher output lights AND keep the perfect spacing : )
    Last edited by Derek Dean; 11-20-2017 at 03:41 AM.

  9. #39
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Posts
    719

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    About the PWM-claim:

    PWM is short for “pulse width modulation”, and it’s a technique for (amongst other things) pulsing a LED on and off, hopefully too fast for anyone to notice.

    Now, if you look at the graphs linked above, that quite clearly isn’t PWM, but more like supply or regulation ripple.

    Is that as bad as PWM?
    No.

    Is it still bad?
    Only if you notice it, doing whatever you’re using your lights for.

    Can it be smoothed out?
    Probably, but probably not for free. You could add a low pass filter, smoothing caps, and so on, but all of that comes at a cost. You’d have more components that can fail, you’d almost certainly have a higher drain (increased losses) and so on.

    I’m not entirely sure we’d actually want them to make a change here.

  10. #40
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    2,501

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    The first version of the zebra has pwm. My oooold h30 clearly has it... a really slow pwm...in the 80 lumen high mode. It's the only light i know of that uses pwm in hi mode, and not in the lower modes. So not ALL zerbras are pwm free. But i cant see anything that looks like pwm in the newer versions, not in use, not around spinning objects, not while moving. And im really allergic to pwm, i spot it in a second

  11. #41
    Flashaholic
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Ukraine, Odesa
    Posts
    128

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Dean View Post
    5. Nichia 219b Hi CRI: I finally stopped waiting for ZL to do that and found a modder here on CPF to mod my SC600 (old style with removable bezel) with a triple Nichia 219 setup. This is the light I use at work every night, and it's stupendous, so keep asking, and while your at it, ask them to do a TRIPLE Nichia 219b. the central hot spot is HUGE : )

    If I did want to add anything to your list, it would be this:
    6. Extreme Lower Levels on the rise: When you increase the output of your lights, please don't increase the lowest levels to try and keep the levels perfectly spaced. The ZL super low levels are your trademark, and your loyal customers LOVE and USE those super extreme low levels. I'd rather have those super low .01 and .05 levels, and give up a bit of the perfect spacing you are trying to achieve...... or even better........ give us a new driver with 14 or 16 choices in output, rather than the current 12. That way we can have our higher output lights AND keep the perfect spacing : )
    I agree with you, few low levels is nice option, and I also want see these low levels in new ZL flashlights .
    ------------------------------
    What star you used for modding ZL SC600 with triple ? pls. send me fotos in PM, if you can.

  12. #42
    Flashaholic*
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Idaho, USA
    Posts
    1,131

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichia! View Post
    ... They sure have PWM but it is not visible to the human eye just put it under the camera and you will see it.
    If the PWM is not visible to the human eye, why is it a problem?

  13. #43
    Flashaholic* Keitho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    CO, USA
    Posts
    781

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Just one more voice to add, in case ZL reads this thread...there is not unanimous support of the OP. My $.02
    1. Pogos work well for me, esp. if it allows high current
    2. I've never heard/felt battery rattles with my cells in lights with pogos.
    3. All my ZL have anodize beyond perfect. Do you use diamonds in the coating somehow?
    4. I've never seen PWM, as they say, IRL. Keep up the great work on your driver, it seems to be the most advanced in the industry in most meaningful ways. If you added a momentary mode, infinite ramping, and a bike strobe, it would be perfect.
    5. Thanks for all the high CRI offerings of late. It makes me not care as much about a Nichia version, especially since the Emisar D4 has been recently demonstrating exactly how much heat they can produce.

    One comment I will add, however. I've experienced two lights with temperamental side switches (one returned, one about to return). Time to switch vendors (pun intended). Your product support is fantastic; but, I'd rather not use it.

  14. #44

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    I wish you could switch tubes on these so the 18650 lights could be used as 18350 lights.

  15. #45

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Derek Dean View Post
    Howdy Nichia!,


    5. Nichia 219b Hi CRI: I finally stopped waiting for ZL to do that and found a modder here on CPF to mod my SC600 (old style with removable bezel) with a triple Nichia 219 setup. This is the light I use at work every night, and it's stupendous, so keep asking, and while your at it, ask them to do a TRIPLE Nichia 219b. the central hot spot is HUGE : )
    Nice! a Triple ZL! I can dream!

  16. #46

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichia! View Post
    I welcome anyone and everyone. But people should be more polite when they talk to others. And it's not a false info as you can see above. to me it's still some kind of PWM. back to the topic please
    You have a misunderstanding of what PWM is and this is absolutely not PWM.

  17. #47

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Overall ZL is my favorite manufacturer, and I have and could endlessly extol their virtues, for this post I'll mention the two main issues (ok 3) I have with their product evolution:

    Mode switch timing registers a momentary loss of contact as "OFF", this is really inconvenient when you've left the light on and drop it, and it goes dark!

    Losing the super low level is a real bummer, please leave that option for us, it's part of what makes ZL so versatile and essential.

    Leave the battery selection open to longer, protected batteries, no matter that protection circuits are redundant and the lights are being made as small as possible, if I need to steal protected cells out of my two cell light to run my ZL headlamp, then let me do that!
    Offer an optional deeper tail cap if necessary. (Maybe the most expedient option).
    Last edited by eh4; 11-22-2017 at 02:10 AM.
    The brighter the light, the darker the shadow.

  18. #48

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by eh4 View Post
    Overall ZL is my favorite manufacturer...

    Can you explain why?

    Build quality, indestructible construction,etc.

    Just wondering.

    Thanks.

  19. #49

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    @Beard Man:

    Power to weight,
    Body strength to weight,
    Compactness,
    Versatility,
    Light quality,
    Build quality,
    Features,
    Programmability,
    Extreme lows with extreme runtimes,
    Impressive highs with practical runtimes,
    Well spaced levels,
    Good tint and beam profile options,
    Reliability,
    Easy communication and warranty work, with very reasonably priced out of warranty repairs.
    (I suspect that their warranty department is so good because they aren't getting slammed with returns.)

    Great value despite cost,
    in real terms they are the least expensive lights that I own due to their utility and reliability, and for the longer periods of time I've been able to go without getting a newer, better light, because they suffice so well... so by that measure alone they've saved me money, let alone their utility as work lights helping me make $.
    (I'm still living in the past with the MK II's, - these are great, polished, late production run lights on discount btw)

    They've got a dizzying variety of lights, but all I care about are the AA headlamps and the 18650 headlamps in "w" and "c" tints, (and photo red), so I've only got 13 varieties to concern myself with, multiplied by up to 3 model generations available in stock or for pre-order.
    The neutral "w" models used to seem to me to be the best deal between tint and lumens×time, but with continued improvements with the leds and drivers, the "c" models are getting to me, I am trying to hold out for a few more months before the inevitable purchase of an H600Fc MK IV and an H600c MK IV.

    Holding out through the MK III generation was relatively easy because the MK II are excellent, and because due to ZL tirelessly improving upon already excellent and cutting edge designs, their improvements are often incremental.
    The MK IV "c" lights are worth jumping on to me though, compared to the MK II "w".
    - If the MK IV "c" lights prove to be as good as I expect, then my completely reliable MK II "w" lights will become armored, watertight spare battery holders, and their thoroughly tested, and slightly worn switches, threads, and rings will get to rest until needed again.
    Last edited by eh4; 11-22-2017 at 04:16 AM.
    The brighter the light, the darker the shadow.

  20. #50

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Thank you eh4 ,

    appreciate it!

  21. #51
    ven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Manchester UK
    Posts
    21,743

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Good feedback eh4!!! I am pretty new to ZL and have watched all the fuss, threads and raving about for ages.................feels like forever! ZL have a strong following, not the usual either. These followers are pretty demanding, hard core customers who are passionate about many factors. Not just high output, low low outputs. Then on top of that, they want frugal, mah sipping lights in a super compact hard anodised light..........So far, i can only think of ZL who offer all in a compact package.

    Simply put, if you dont have a ZL you are missing out!. From older pics, i always thought a little fugly, maybe as i was more use to the typical 18650 combat tacticool type light. Either way , the ZL make others look dated, so last year(even new models released).

    My only wants and wont get, better clips(like the sc63/64 screwed) instead of the clip on ones. LED wise, nichia(we can have that with other lights, be nice for ZL as well).

  22. #52
    Flashaholic* Keitho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    CO, USA
    Posts
    781

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Beard Man View Post
    Can you explain why?

    Build quality, indestructible construction,etc.

    Just wondering.

    Thanks.
    For me, in my EDC uses and outdoor uses, the differentiator that gets me to choose a ZL almost every time instead of my other lights, boils down to some kind of objective or subjective ratio of performance:weight/size. ZL (especially in 18650 models) is unmatched in just about every objective and my personal subjective measures in this area (lumen-hours:weight, lumen-hours:volume, turbo-brightness:weight, usefulness:weight, show-off-performance:volume, etc.).

    They are my favorite manufacturer, but aren't perfect. I guess that keeps me buying new ZL's every year!

  23. #53

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Keitho View Post
    For me, in my EDC uses and outdoor uses, the differentiator that gets me to choose a ZL almost every time instead of my other lights, boils down to some kind of objective or subjective ratio of performance:weight/size. ZL (especially in 18650 models) is unmatched in just about every objective and my personal subjective measures in this area (lumen-hours:weight, lumen-hours:volume, turbo-brightness:weight, usefulness:weight, show-off-performance:volume, etc.).

    They are my favorite manufacturer, but aren't perfect. I guess that keeps me buying new ZL's every year!
    Completely feel the exact same way and why I have more ZL lights than any other single brand. I use those type of standards for all my lights. More useful to me than my Oveready Boss.

  24. #54

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    The electronics used to be potted I guess no more!

  25. #55
    Flashaholic* Tachead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Northwestern Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    3,860

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumencrazy View Post
    The electronics used to be potted I guess no more!
    What makes you say that? All of their lights are potted.

  26. #56
    Flashaholic* Derek Dean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Monterey, CA
    Posts
    2,337

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Tachead, I'm guessing that Lumencrazy is referring to the photo you posted earlier in this thread of the disassembled light, and I've got to admit, those electronics don't exactly look potted to me, but maybe I'm missing something. Please do set me straight. Maybe they are partially potted?

  27. #57

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Derek, here's the reply ZL staff sent me regarding their potting:

    "This is what looks like before the potting material (a Dow Corning thermally conductive silicone) is removed: http://www.zebralight.com/zoomify.as...C32Potting.jpg
    Smaller components (less mass and hence less force under the same acceleration from shock/vibration) are on the upside of the board and covered with potting silicone completely.
    Large/hot components are on the other side of the board. The unibody (http://www.zebralight.com/zoomify.as...L2)cutaway.jpg) are machined to have "cavities" of various sizes and depths, and when filled with potting silicone, provide strong support and short thermal paths for the components.
    Single board design is to reduce unnecessary wiring and hand soldering, for better reliability and durability. Besides, PID thermal regulation doesn't work well if the sensor is not right next to the LED. Unibody also provide better mechanical rigidity as well as much better thermal and electrical paths.
    "

    I believe this should answer your question.

  28. #58
    Flashaholic* Derek Dean's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Monterey, CA
    Posts
    2,337

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Thank you TCY, most helpful : )

  29. #59

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    the 264lm on the H600w MkIV doesn't count

  30. #60

    Default Re: To Zebralight

    Zebralights are some probably one of the top stock lights in my book from any manufacturer. I echo all the factors pointed out about the ZL that makes them so great. I already have a bunch of them but have already pre-ordered the upcoming MK IV.

    I've been away from the flashlight scene or a while so I haven't been using any instruments to test things such as PWM.. just my eyes. Are other users using instruments to test for this or is it mostly an eyeballing thing?

    My only real issue at first was the very limited length of batteries that could fit and inability to use protected cells. I quickly got over this when I got used to the excellent driver with LVP and the use of a quality high drain flat top.

    The Nichia LED suggestion sounds interesting as it seems a lot of CPF members love the tint and the CRI. I personally am satisfied with the Cree offerings and I even quite like the cool white offerings. Still it would be nice to see how it performs against the Cree for the warmer/high CRI options in the ZL.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •