Manufacturers still don't get it

the only reason why Emisar D4 has so much success is the ramping ui.
People want a simple and versatile ui, they don't want to memorize 10 modes, double, tripple clicks, H1, H2, M3 and whatever and not even be able to have the level they need.
Manufacturers just don't seem to get this. They are still making lights with stupid UI instead of all switching to ramping

ank said:

the only reason why Emisar D4 has so much success is the ramping ui.
People want a simple and versatile ui, they don't want to memorize 10 modes, double, tripple clicks, H1, H2, M3 and whatever and not even be able to have the level they need.
Manufacturers just don't seem to get this. They are still making lights with stupid UI instead of all switching to ramping

Click to expand...

If I am forced to choose only one UI, it would be the constantly variable magnetic ring. I think its brilliant and I wish ALL my lights had it.

you mean like acebeam k70? it still has only 5 modes, but i agree it's still better than single button without ramping

ank said:

People want a simple and versatile ui, they don't want to memorize 10 modes, double, tripple clicks, H1, H2, M3 and whatever and not even be able to have the level they need

Click to expand...

I don't want all of those extra modes either. But, some people want all of that customization. But, a lot of people do want that. Otherwise, they wouldn't be manufacturing and selling lights with those features. It just happens that right now there is a market for it. If/When that market dries up, manufacturers will switch back to simplicity or focus on other features. Hopefully that happens soon.

ank said:

the only reason why Emisar D4 has so much success is the ramping ui.
People want a simple and versatile ui, they don't want to memorize 10 modes, double, tripple clicks, H1, H2, M3 and whatever and not even be able to have the level they need.
Manufacturers just don't seem to get this. They are still making lights with stupid UI instead of all switching to ramping

Click to expand...

Bold statement calling major flashlight manufacturers stupid such as zebralight for using a complex but intuitive UI. There must be a demand for the user interfaces that are built into the flashlights. You're statement which sounds like an opinion not a actualization doesn't hold much water if you don't choose you're words more carefully ank.

Ramping is cool for the first hour, then it loses its novelty.

I do agree though that I like lights with no more than 3 modes-- low,mid-high. (Even better if I can customize those modes with double, triple clicks, etc).

Comparing multiple modes with ramping is like comparing windows 3.1 with windows 7. There's no comparison. Ramping is such a huge step ahead that all flashlights should have it by now.

As an electrician, I'm using a flashlight in one of two ways. I'm either using it for general constant illumination while working, in which case I don't mind a quick navigation through a few modes. Or I'm using it to explore during layout or estimation, in which case I'm turning it on and off repeatedly and quickly as I wander around, and all I want is instant medium/high from one motion of the hand. Quick on, quick off, give me useful illumination now.

My opinion is agreeable to the OP, not that the manufacturers are idiots, but that I have no practical need in my day to day actual use of flashlights for extra clicking through fancy modes to do my job. And no use whatsoever for strobe/sos. I will even decline to purchase a torch based solely on its having a complicated ui.

I am however delighted that some manufacturers are allowing us to program our ui. That I like, because then I can make it do what I want, rather than being a waking customer demo.

Ramping has downsides too. In my eyes the biggest one is that you never know the runtime of the light when it's not at 100% or 1%. Sometimes one needs lights for a specific (often minimum) amount of time before changing the battery or recharging it is possible. With a ramping U.I. you could only guess how much runtime you will get. With a Zebralight or similar one can set the brightest mode possible while still getting the runtime one needs.

Setting a light to a specific bightness is also not possible for the same reason.

ank said:

the only reason why Emisar D4 has so much success is the ramping ui.
People want a simple and versatile ui, they don't want to memorize 10 modes, double, tripple clicks, H1, H2, M3 and whatever and not even be able to have the level they need.
Manufacturers just don't seem to get this. They are still making lights with stupid UI instead of all switching to ramping

Click to expand...

Ramping... I assume you mean "click and hold to increase/decrease brightness"? That's a poor UI design because it's way too easy to overshoot your desired brightness level plus the inconvenience of the lag time to reach the brightness you want. Direct access to preset levels with a series of simple clicks and/or a physical dial are vastly superior in almost every way.

There are lots of different UIs that cater to lots of different preferences. There's no shortage of choice out there so I don't think it's a major issue for multi-clicks to be a common UI.

lightseeker2009 said:

If I am forced to choose only one UI, it would be the constantly variable magnetic ring. I think its brilliant and I wish ALL my lights had it.

Click to expand...

I agree. It is my favorite. Only need one hands to operate.No searching for switch!

ank said:

the only reason why Emisar D4 has so much success is the ramping ui.
People want a simple and versatile ui, they don't want to memorize 10 modes, double, tripple clicks, H1, H2, M3 and whatever and not even be able to have the level they need.
Manufacturers just don't seem to get this. They are still making lights with stupid UI instead of all switching to ramping

Click to expand...

We all have different preferences.I could NOT imagine every flashlights UI being the same, neither do the manufacturers.

It would be NARROW minded and there would be no versatility if they were all to your desires or mine for that matter. Freedom of choice is a gift!

ramping is only viable in fet driven unregulated drivers.

It has a main drawback, apart from the low efficiency: you can't measure how much runtime you will have

It's way better a fully regulated driver, with 4 o 5 well spaced modes

Luckily there are a lot of choices for everyone to meet the various personalities and likes. Not having one light fit all needs means you have to have more than one flashlight.

Through the years I have discovered what I like and don't. My desire for purchases has waned a lot because of not liking what I consider lights becoming too fancy.

I like the variable ring lights more than those that have a button where you click and hold to ramp. But I'm not sure I would want the majority of my lights as variable adjust. The magnetic variable ring lights tend to not be as efficient from what I've seen........but for those that like them, you can overlook that.

I agree with twistedraven where no more than 3 modes is adequate for lights in the under 500 lumen range. Definitely if there is a strobe/sos it needs to be hidden. I liked the Quark Tactical with 2 modes where you set the output from their choice of available levels.

Light needs to start out on low or at least have memory and advance upward. Don't like the recently released lights from Jetbeam that advance downward. Also don't like the lights that have a low mode that is more like medium in the 30 to 80 lumen area.

I have no single electronic switched lights aside from a couple of headlamps with fairly simple UI. I have never been a fan of single electronic switched lights or of built in chargers.

I look at the new releases but if it doesn't knock my socks off, or greatly improve what I already have, then I pass.

Can't help replying. OP should understand everyone has their own preferences, surprisingly.
Read the other thread about what is your favorite UI and see how different people think and feel.

the.Mtn.Man said:

Ramping... I assume you mean "click and hold to increase/decrease brightness"? That's a poor UI design because it's way too easy to overshoot your desired brightness level plus the inconvenience of the lag time to reach the brightness you want. Direct access to preset levels with a series of simple clicks and/or a physical dial are vastly superior in almost every way.

Click to expand...

I agree entirely. I'm not a ramping fan. I like two stage gas pedal style, and selector ring best. Ramping isn't nearly as convenient for me. I don't like waiting to get the brightness I want. Doesn't make a HUGE difference, and I own many ramping lights. But, for someone to suggest that ramping is a far superior UI and all lights should use ramping is completely and utterly ridiculous. I am very glad manufacturers think so as well.

ank said:

Comparing multiple modes with ramping is like comparing windows 3.1 with windows 7. There's no comparison. Ramping is such a huge step ahead that all flashlights should have it by now.

Click to expand...

I can set my multi-mode flashlight to the desired output level before I even pull it out of the holster. There's no way I could do that with a ramping UI.

To be fair, I've only tried 2 lights ramping UIs and that was several years ago. Perhaps the current crop of ramping UIs is better.

--flatline

ank said:

Comparing multiple modes with ramping is like comparing windows 3.1 with windows 7. There's no comparison. Ramping is such a huge step ahead that all flashlights should have it by now.

Click to expand...

I really wasn't sure where you were going with this analogy, because in my mind, ramping is the Windows 3.1 of flashlight design, although Windows 7 is pretty much trash in its own right, so the comparison falls a bit flat anyway.

Of course if we were to follow through with this analogy then the HDS interface is like Linux because it's flexible and rock-solid stable. :twothumbs

Ramping is fun, but it's often difficult for me to choose the output I really want. Usually I overshoot or undershoot. To be fair, often the modes aren't exactly what I want either, but at least I know what I'm getting. With ramping, I never know what I'm going to end up with.

You could make a light with a slower ramp (I have a couple of such lights), but then it's frustrating to wait until it finally ramps to where I want.

A light like the BLF Q8 has nice ramping, though I think it seems better than it really is, because its mode groups are so horrible to use!

A light with a few well-spaced modes is still my favorite kind of interface.