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Thread: XeVision ULTRA 80-85W Super head mod - SIGN UP NOW

  1. #1
    karlthev's Avatar
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    Default XeVision ULTRA 80-85W Super head mod - SIGN UP NOW

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Driver View Post

    "There is nothing they can do which would substantially increase performance. I guess they could ar-coate the lens for an extra 5-6% output.
    UHP bulbs can't be used in a production light. Also they would have a much slower startup and reduce runtime or brightness (they are less efficient)."

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay

    "A more powerful metal halide bulb would be possible, but again less runtime and much slower startup.
    He is 100% correct on all points 100 watt is not really possible. the limiting factor is, THERE ARE NO QUALITY BULBS for THIS PARTICULAR HID TECHNOLOGY beyond the "FATBOY" DL50, the max it can or should be considered to be run at is somewhere between 80 and 85 bulb watts, TBD by Xevision which it could or would be (80 or 85) if we were to proceed with the below project.

    The only thing left to push this technology to its final edge, and only we (XeVision) can and could do to create the LX70 Superpower "Ultra" ( with a custom new ballast, different bulb and our igniters ) , is push a DL50 "fatboy" bulb to 80 or 85 watts (a 10 bulb watt increase adding maybe 1200 (80w) - 1900 (85w) additional Lumens), we don't see a "real" market for it though.
    We don't see a real (100's of units) market for even the standard 50/70 Superpower, so we never sold it.
    The "Ultra" Superpower we could call it, might sell 10 to 20 units worldwide for a few hardcore flashaholics, with lots of money to spend. Maybe $3,500 to $4,000 with a prebuy group buy only 1 or 2 runs limited edition.
    Not sure at this point if the low end would stay 50W or move up to say 60W."


    I recall the original XeVision portable light to end all lights which, via CPF membership request (demand?) graduated to the now famous "Barn Burner" project, the performance of which had not been seen before.The Barn Burner being a modified, low production specialty light, I believe purchased by a rarified group of aficionados right here on the forum!

    This thread represents a "testing of the waters" so to speak to determine if the desire..."need" for such a project exists. Does it?
    Let's hear from all you CPFers who may want to take the next quantum step and have the needed hardware designed, produced and bring this project to completion!



    Karl
    Last edited by karlthev; 09-06-2018 at 10:10 AM. Reason: thread intent clarification

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* The_Driver's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    This new light is basically a heavily upgraded barnburner. It uses the same bulb at the same power, but all the other components are much better/bigger/newer.

    For a new level of performance the only real option would be UHP bulbs or laser phosphor. The latter really does offer new possibilities.

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    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    Dan, what was the 250-Watt light going to be back a few years when you posted sort of an interest gathering post?
    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    Can you be more specific ?
    It was going to be about 20,000 lumens or so, but the proper bulb used takes close to a minute to reach full output and starts out as bright as a "candle" for the first 30 seconds.
    Not very practical in most applications.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Driver View Post
    Could you also put the Ultra ballast in the LX50 II?
    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    All of these "puck" type ballasts are identical in size and function, only the internal power output settings and some internal components are different.
    In theory yes, but we would never consider doing that to the LX50-II, only upgrading it to a 50/70 we will consider.
    The Normal 50/70 or the Superpower we will consider, for doing the power upgrade to 80 or 85 watts.
    Last edited by XeRay; 03-14-2018 at 03:31 PM.

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    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Driver View Post
    This new light is basically a heavily upgraded barnburner. It uses the same bulb at the same power, but all the other components are much better/bigger/newer.

    For a new level of performance the only real option would be UHP bulbs or laser phosphor. The latter really does offer new possibilities.
    The original "Barnburner" see photo (http://home.earthlink.net/~mrtedbear...s/image011.jpg) of about 10 to 12 years ago had a tough plastic housing and a stamped metal reflector, not mil spec anodized 6082 aluminum alloy or electroformed reflectors as used currently. Stock, it was ONLY 75 watts to the bulb (same DL50 fatboy bulb as being proposed here).

    A few "elite users" 2 or 3 that I am aware of "bumped" the power to 80 or 85 watts.
    "The few" were "sworn to secrecy" on how to accomplish bumping the power (we told them how), back then on that old style box shaped ballast. (don't get any ideas !) The new Puck shaped ballasts are potted, those box ballasts were not.

    The Puck shaped ballast is thermally very efficient (special thermal transfer potting).
    A deep "pocketed" see link photos (http://www.xevision.com/images/XePuc...ombi%20450.png) CNC machined solid aluminium (aluminum) puck, all of this to very efficiently promote heat transfer to the searchlight housing exterior fins. We also use thermal paste on the searchlight housing to puck interface to again facilitate heat removal from the puck to insure long life. This is a military grade ballast.
    Last edited by XeRay; 03-14-2018 at 04:07 PM.

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    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Also brought over from the other thread, its relevant here too.

    Quote Originally Posted by XeRay View Post
    If we get some committed interest on the "ULTRA". A very special and powerful beast it would be indeed, for the most discriminating small group of elite buyers.
    We would probably limit it to 10 or 20 units total. But lets see if there is any interest for an ~ 8,800 to ~10,000 Lumens (TBD) from a Superpower "ULTRA".
    The existing Superpowers are about 7600 Lumens.
    To do this project we only need to make a special run of our ballasts, projected 2 to 3 months lead time.
    We have the bulbs and Igniters in stock at all times.

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    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Brought over from the other thread, more relevant here.

    Quote Originally Posted by sledhead View Post
    Wonder what the DL Fatboy bulb is........
    It is the only bulb we can recommend above 70 watts. Made by Philips maybe 15 years ago. The other bulb we use at 50 watts and above up to 70 watts is the DL50/740 also from Philips.
    The "fatboy" has proven itself to handle 80-85 watts quite well, in all of our special applications.

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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    One of these:

    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

  8. #8
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Remember this one.... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...beam+7.5+to+12 I don't.....


    Karl

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    karlthev's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    The following copied from the original thread....

    "I (sort of) remember when the last big upgrade project blossomed into the Barn Burner years ago, it was sponsored/designed/developed and produced by XeVision years ago. I still own a copy which works as it did back then, a real champ! The now-famous Barn Burner of yore, spoken in hushed tones in back rooms of Flashaholic meeting sites world-wide to this very day, was "King of the Road" way back then, when I was still combing head vs facial hair!! Those were the days my friends when Pony Express was still the best method of sending "snail mail". The BarnBurner had few (if any) competitors and, while some CPFers were igniting newspaper with their comparatively diminutive modded maglites, those fortunate to have snagged a true to life Barn Burner were soakin' up the rays in the long Winter season, getting stellar tans in front of the beast itself! "Karl" my buddies would say, "when did you get back from Florida?", of course presuming I'd been vacationing down South as a "snowbird"! Well, I didn't want to dissolution them so I'd just smile and briefly remove my Sunglasses. Ha!

    Times have changed and, despite the considerable performance in its' day, the Barn Burner can't (forgive me!) "hold a candle" to a number of portable Suns on the market today, most notably the XeVision XeRay XV-LX70 searchlight and its brethren.They represent a VAST step into the future of lighting devices. As we reading this thread all know, the LX70 and, it's big brother, the SuperPower, are among the relatively few lamps today which have eclipsed the performance of the BarnBurner. Just as the BarnBurner was a "souped-up" version of the XeRay Search light so too will the "Ultra" be a tweaked, no holds barred, big brother version of the LX70 and Super. If you have slipped up and failed to read some of the past posts in this thread, Dan (XeRay) has given in to some pressure and spoken of this new proposed light, the "Ultra".


    Thanks to Dan, we will very soon (several short months?) have the Ultra available to us! Now, HOW soon is the question. Just as new Ferrari's aren't developed on the basis of one-offs, neither will the Ultra be a single modded light for yours truly. Dan needs a bit of more concrete interest/support expressed right here to make this worthy project a "go". I missed the original BarnBurner project and finally did get one from an old (historical) CPFer, LuxLuthor. "Chuck" was kind enough to part with one of his two at the time...bless his heart! Had he not, I most likely would have had to wait years to find one and, required therapy for having to wait that long!

    I'd sure like some of you others reading this thread to realize what can be available to us in the near future--the Ultra which will, as the LX70 has become the "Barn Burner on Steroids", be the LX70 on steroids! Let Dan know your interest and, we will have him signaling us with the "Ultra" all the way from Utah, his home!"

    Karl

  10. #10

    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Haha great post, Karl!
    Last edited by wimmer21; 03-22-2018 at 01:34 PM.

  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quite Tempting..........

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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    WOW! It's Lux! Very long time, no see.
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

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    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quote Originally Posted by LuxLuthor View Post
    Quite Tempting..........
    A "blast from the past" !
    I thought this might bring some "veteran CPF'rs" out from the "woodwork".

  14. #14
    karlthev's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Well, I've been languishing on other threads but HAD to come over here and see what's been going on in my absence! As the old advertisement states, "Nuttin' honey"!
    Well, I do hope my mere presence will stir up SOME reads...even REPLIES!! Who knows, there's just GOT to be interest in a mod for these cannons!

    Other than LuxLuthor and BVH , I'm missing some of the old crowd whose posts and threads I often printed ...just for reference. Legends in their own time and, sure would be nice to see them or their progeny here and just as enthusiastic and innovative as they!

    So Dan, what's news? Anything? I sure do hope so!


    Karl

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    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    LOL, I still have a whole boatload of the Fatboy bulbs that we got from some guy who didn't know what he had in his warehouse. Was that you that found those, BVH? Great memories seeing you guys. Still active with all the lights! Still using all the incans too! LOL!

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    BVH's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Yes, that was me. You and I split up the lot. Was it 45 or 24 each, I don't remember. I remember you stopped making up battery packs. Do you still have your spot welder?
    WWII 60" Carbon Arc (Sold), 1.6KW NightSun, 1KW VSS-3A, .8KW TrakkaBeam, 600W M-134 Light, 500W X-500-14s, 500W Starburst, 500W A120b, 450 Watt AEG German Leopard 1 Tank Light, 300W Locators, Megaray, 150W Communicator, Maxabeam Gen3, Pichel 75W Mini-Novas

  17. #17

    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Dan.......throwing my hat into the ring. PM sent

    Come on folks...who can resist a Fatboy!

  18. #18
    karlthev's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Welcome aboard Sandy!!


    Karl

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    *Flashaholic* LuxLuthor's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quote Originally Posted by BVH View Post
    Yes, that was me. You and I split up the lot. Was it 45 or 24 each, I don't remember. I remember you stopped making up battery packs. Do you still have your spot welder?
    It was 45 of them. I still have my spot welder.

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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Well I haven't posted here in quite a long time. I was one of the original barnburner 75watt group buy members and sold it when the new lx70 came out. Price however kept me from buying the lx70 until now that I was able to acquire a used one. I did notice a couple things. The lx70 has great build quality and I understand that the dl50-740 bulb was used as a mass produced bulb was needed in order to market it to the military. I did notice that the lx70 seems to lack both the power and throw the old barn burner had. It doesn't focus as tight as the bb did and doesn't seem to have the output of the dl50 fat boy driven to 75 watts. I used to bet the guys at work they couldn't hold their hand in front of the light for 30 seconds, and I never lost. I can't make that bet anymore and it seems to hurt it in its throw capability. If someone has an operating old bb and also a new lx70 I would love to see some side by side beamshots. I don't believe there are any problems with my lx70 it just lacks the punch of the old bb but is a huge leap in build quality over the bb.
    If Dan is looking to upgrade the lx70 with a new ballast at 85 watts with a dl50 fat boy what would you charge for it. I would give up some runtime in order to turn it up.

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    Flashaholic* The_Driver's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Here you can find an old comparison which includes both the Osram D1 and the DL50 Fatboy bulb at 50W (and also the Fatboy at 75W & 80W).

    Also, the performance of the Lemax/XeVision lX70 is actually better compared to the older lights including the barn burner. It does around 1.3Mcd when optimally focussed (they had this measured) which is around 30-50% more compared to the XeVision 75W and BarnBurner. One reason for this is the precision reflector which allows them to put the tiny tip of one of the electrodes into the focus. The arc has a much higher surface brightness on the tip. The reflectors of the older lights weren't precise enough for this.

  22. #22
    karlthev's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Nice research for the link Driver! Not owning the photographic equipment I'd need to record such a comparison, you'll just have to take my word for what I see (hopefully tonight) in how these two perform.



    Karl

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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quote Originally Posted by karlthev View Post
    Nice research for the link Driver! Not owning the photographic equipment I'd need to record such a comparison, you'll just have to take my word for what I see (hopefully tonight) in how these two perform.



    Karl
    Thanks I look forward to your comparison.
    I wonder if the dl50 fatboy's arc is the exact same position in the reflector of the lx70 as the current dl50-740 bulb. If it is a couple mm farther away from the body it might produce a tighter center focus than the current pattern.

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    Flashaholic* The_Driver's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    The Barnburner with the DL50 Fatboy bulb should produce a bigger hotspot compared to the LX70. It should also, obviously, produce a bit more lumens. This difference should become much more noticebale when both lights have been used a lot (the Fatboy has better lumen maintaince).

    I was able to try out the LX70 Superpower (with Osram D1 bulb) last weekend. We compared it to many powerful lights with all kinds of light sources. This sample was definitely not optimally focussed, it was probably producing less than 4.5Mcd. As expected there is nothing compareable except for 70W+ HID mods. It kills the LED lights and the Maxabeam just doesn't have the lumens. It puts much more light downrange compared to most other lights.

    sven_m also posted some beamshots, see here (in German).

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    karlthev's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quote Originally Posted by toolboy View Post
    Thanks I look forward to your comparison.
    I wonder if the dl50 fatboy's arc is the exact same position in the reflector of the lx70 as the current dl50-740 bulb. If it is a couple mm farther away from the body it might produce a tighter center focus than the current pattern.
    I/we may need Dan (XeVision) to step in here...

    The only Philips DL50 Fatboy lamp I have sits in a BarnBurner. I believe the LEMAX 70s (built in Europe) may not uniformly have the DL50-740 lamps, rather 35 watt lamps driven harder to get the same performance. I believe the LE70s built by XeRay all have the DL50-740 lamps as well as do the "upgrades" which were converted by XeVision. As an aside, while I run it infrequently, the BarnBurner had/has a focusing ring on the reflector housing while ,as you know already, the LX70 does not. The BarnBurner reflector therefore, can be moved, "adjusted" (?) in and out of the relationship to the base of the lamp.

    Now, did I "gum" that one up but good?


    Karl

    PS There are some severe rain and wind warnings in my area of Pennsylvania so tonight may not be the night for the comparison. I'll try however.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Driver View Post
    The Barnburner with the DL50 Fatboy bulb should produce a bigger hotspot compared to the LX70. It should also, obviously, produce a bit more lumens. This difference should become much more noticebale when both lights have been used a lot (the Fatboy has better lumen maintaince).

    I was able to try out the LX70 Superpower (with Osram D1 bulb) last weekend. We compared it to many powerful lights with all kinds of light sources. This sample was definitely not optimally focussed, it was probably producing less than 4.5Mcd. As expected there is nothing compareable except for 70W+ HID mods. It kills the LED lights and the Maxabeam just doesn't have the lumens. It puts much more light downrange compared to most other lights.

    sven_m also posted some beamshots, see here (in German).
    Yet another series of great shots Driver, thanks!

    I don't think toolboy has the SP version so I was going to compare the LX70 (European version) with my BarnBurner. I would agree the BB produces a much broader spot than the LX70 though. As well, as you have noted before, the MaxaBeam is an entirely different light with the main attribute being the long cast spot.



    Karl

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    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quote Originally Posted by toolboy View Post
    Thanks I look forward to your comparison.
    I wonder if the dl50 fatboy's arc is the exact same position in the reflector of the lx70 as the current dl50-740 bulb. If it is a couple mm farther away from the body it might produce a tighter center focus than the current pattern.
    Unless its one of ours with XeVision written on the Bezel in a few places, it has a 35 watt Osram D1S (modified) bulb, not our DL50/740 or our igniter/bulb socket. Only we use this Philips bulb, not Lemax.
    Or if its one of only a couple 70's we have upgraded. It would also have our (USA English) XeVision manual. we have upgraded only 1 Superpower so far.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Mine is a Xevision LX70 with Xevision on the bezel with the U.S. Manual #XVXL7009150017, Bezel SN:V12-0101

  29. #29
    karlthev's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    You have the DL50/740 and XeVision igniter/bulb, the USA built model.



    Karl

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    Flashaholic* XeRay's Avatar
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    Default Re: XeVision Superpower "Ultra" 80 or 85 Watt (TBD)

    Quote Originally Posted by toolboy View Post
    Mine is a Xevision LX70 with Xevision on the bezel with the U.S. Manual #XVXL7009150017, Bezel SN:V12-0101
    Yes Karl is right, I looked it up, you are right.
    It is one of ours, with our exclusive ballast, Igniter and DL50/740 bulb.
    Last edited by XeRay; 05-16-2018 at 04:23 PM.

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