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Thread: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    So last night I did a little hike out in some local woods with 3 lights with me. A Surefire E2E with a fresh Lumens Factory EO-E1R lamp and a fully charged Keeppower 16650, my A2 Aviator with a LumensFactory lamp that has been in there for a long time, and has developed a little darkening of the glass envelope, and another A2 Aviator with a brand new fresh LumensFactory lamp. I really wanted test these lights out amongst the deep woods in total darkness.

    As far as color temperature is concerned, both A2's beat the hotly driven E2E hands down. The beam from the A2 with the older lamp beat the E2E in whiteness, and against the A2 with the fresh lamp, it wasn't even a contest.

    Despite the smaller, shallower reflector of the E2E, it did seem to match the throw of the A2's quite well, they are very similar. I am impressed with the E2E in this regard.

    Upon coming home, thinking of the comments in this thread, I decided to do one further test. I swapped out the EO-E1R in the E2E for a HO-E2R and two fresh IMR 16340's, and swapped out the LumensFactory lamp in the A2 for the factory MA-02. Not surprisingly, the A2 STILL beat the E2E in the color temperature department, appearing noticeably whiter in temperature.

    After this testing, it has confirmed to me what I already knew, that the color temperature of the A2's beam is one of this lights greatest attributes.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Isn't the A2 regulated?

    I tried a Tads bi-pin bulb vs the SureFire lamp and prefer the Tads. Better beam overall and a bit brighter. But the SureFire lamp assembly throws better. Haven't tried the LF in an A2 but love, love, love 'em in my E1's and 2's.

    I use primaries.
    John 3:16

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Isn't the A2 regulated?

    I tried a Tads bi-pin bulb vs the SureFire lamp and prefer the Tads. Better beam overall and a bit brighter. But the SureFire lamp assembly throws better. Haven't tried the LF in an A2 but love, love, love 'em in my E1's and 2's.

    I use primaries.
    Sure is regulated, with soft starting too. That's what makes the A2 so special.

    I'm surprised to hear the stock A2 bulb outthrows the Tads bulb, as the stock A2 bulb tip is frosted, which hurts the throw a bit. The LumensFactory lamp throws a bit better than the stock bulb, and is a bit brighter and whiter as well. I would like to see a comparison between the Tads bulbs and the LumensFactory bulbs.

    I also run Primaries in mine as well.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in


    A side by side with an oem bulb and a Tads

    It seems the frosted tip helps disperse the hot spot a bit. So regarding throw, the Tads beam goes farther in a very narrow area. At 50 yards for example it'll light up a dog or a deer. At that distance the SureFire bulb will light up two or 3 deer standing near each other.

    I considered a Lumens Factory bulb module. 2 would've been about the cost of a Tads adapter and some bulbs. Some bulbs = 10 so on the 3rd bi-pin I'd be in the black as it were.
    I bought a few SureFire modules and stashed them when they hit the $35 mark. Then I bought a few A2's since they still had stock bulbs. My most ugliest, beat up one so worn the letters are gone is the one I carry. I don't mind the stock blue fringed Mickey Mouse silouette beam from the LED's at all.

    I've never understood all the fuss about beam patterns and such. I hit the on button, light comes out.... good enough. Especially when it helps me find dropped keys or keeps me from tripping over a tree root.
    To me it's like getting all in a tizzy about the pitch of the clicking sound when tightening a screw with a ratchet.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 07-01-2018 at 06:58 AM.
    John 3:16

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    BKYFIXER, how quickly do the Tads bulbs blacken/get dark? My experience with the stock Surefire bulb is it takes a very, very, long time for them to start to darken.

    The LumensFactory bulbs seem to darken much faster than the Surefire bulbs in my experience.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Well, to be honest the one I'm using hasn't become darkened, or at least that I can see. But the bulb doesn't get used all that much. Maybe 3 hours so far.... maybe less.

    PK once told me that he had hired a PhD while he worked at SureFire to perform R&D for light bulb gas. He also did performance analysis for durability and darkening. He said back then computers did math for determining potential issues (instead of doing the work in real time). That one computer could take up to five days to solve a math problem. Well, the PhD wanted to work on other stuff while the computer did it's thing. So PK bought him 5 of the best computers available at the time. Of course todays computer could probably solve 5 of those problems in minutes.

    Anyway, it seems that SureFire has a patented recipe for a combo of krypton and xenon gas that is a better kept secret than the recipe for Coca-Cola.

    I think Tad uses xenon, and a similar arrangement of parts and pieces as Maglite used in their PR based xenons. The Maglite xenon were pretty good.
    John 3:16

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Surefire lamps are undoubtley the finest ever made. I had a MN30 that ran for an ungodly amount of time, and when it did finally blow, it was because I fired up the lamp directly hot off the charger. Had I let the battery settle for a little while, it probably would have kept going.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    To me, primaries are more predictable. But the times I use rechargeables they have rested over night. Example, I keep 3 of 4 16340's charged for a one cell LED daily and charge the one when it needs it. So there are 3 ready to go. And if the need for those takes place before I can reach a charger I keep one of them charged and switch to a primary in that light for longer runtime(s).

    I'm very careful about using rechrageable batteries in a light that uses a $10+ bulb module.
    John 3:16

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    That's another beautiful thing about the A2. The Lamp doesn't care how much voltage you feed it, two 4.2 V Lithium ions, or 2 primaries, makes no difference, the lamp will only see around 4V of it. Sadly, the same can't be said about the LED's though.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    That's another beautiful thing about the A2. The Lamp doesn't care how much voltage you feed it, two 4.2 V Lithium ions, or 2 primaries, makes no difference, the lamp will only see around 4V of it. Sadly, the same can't be said about the LED's though.
    The circuitry in Koala's led "Onion Rings" will handle 2x Li-ion cells. I don't know enough about Calipsoii's led rings to address whether or not they will also handle 2x Li-ion cells safely.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by novice View Post
    .... I don't know enough about Calipsoii's led rings to address whether or not they will also handle 2x Li-ion cells safely.
    Yes, safe voltage range listed in OP, here ...

    http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...-Run)-*CLOSED*
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirty wage guy View Post
    ....
    Thanks For going easy on me Arch!
    No worries ... a little thread cleanup now done
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  13. #43
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    That's another beautiful thing about the A2. The Lamp doesn't care how much voltage you feed it, two 4.2 V Lithium ions, or 2 primaries, makes no difference, the lamp will only see around 4V of it. Sadly, the same can't be said about the LED's though.
    I've always loved that about the lamp assembly because of the regulator. Drop some LI IONS or primaries in there, the light doesn't care. I agree and disagree with some of the points you made. I'll have to do some beamshots eventually to prove my points on the A2. Probably won't be this week though. I'll have to dig through a lot of lights.
    ampdude

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by ampdude View Post
    I've always loved that about the lamp assembly because of the regulator. Drop some LI IONS or primaries in there, the light doesn't care. I agree and disagree with some of the points you made. I'll have to do some beamshots eventually to prove my points on the A2. Probably won't be this week though. I'll have to dig through a lot of lights.
    Fair enough Ampdude. I'm just going by the data and my eyes is all. Either way, love it or hate it, the A2 is a special light indeed.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by DayofReckoning View Post
    Fair enough Ampdude. I'm just going by the data and my eyes is all. Either way, love it or hate it, the A2 is a special light indeed.
    I'll try and get some beamshots up on a white wall. Here's one thing I need to mention, that we were talking about... The darkening of the Lumens Factory bulbs, and I believe you have observed yourself, which I myself have observed after only 1 hour of operation, is because they contain only xenon gas. They don't contain the xenon-halogen combination that Surefire lamps do which last forever. Surefire lamps use the xenon-halogen cycle so that they stay bright for a really long time. I've been told that I'm stupid for thinking that bulbs should be this way because xenon costs more. Well we all know better.
    ampdude

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    I've seen this issue of the lamps darkening quickly brought up to Mark from LumensFactory before.

    His response/excuse was that they don't have the equipment/machinery to do a Xenon-Halogen cycle lamp, and that they use a very high pressure in the lamp to combat the darkening, or something to that effect.

    I like LumensFactory's lamp, they have good qualities to them, and I can appreciate that they are the only one supporting us Incan guys, but there is serious issues with their lamps blackening quickly. If they were cheap, it wouldn't be such a big deal, problem is cheap they are not.

    FWIW, to be fair, it's my experience that the LumensFactory A2 lamp darkens less quickly than many of the other lamps I've had from them. Not sure if the A2's soft start has anything to do with that or what, but that's my experience.

  17. #47
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Yes, Sir.
    Xenon-Halogen lamp production is very different than pure Xenon lamp production, the machinery and manufacturing process are different.
    The Xenon-Halogen lamps almost do not darken at all because of the regeneration qualities of the Halogen cycle.
    We in turn use a much higher pressure in the lamp to slow the darkening (using the higher pressure to "press" against the tungsten to slow the deterioration).
    We don't make Xenon-Halogen lamp simply because we don't have the machinery to make them, so we make our lamps in pure Xenon.
    This has always been the case for us and the reason why we do not make Xenon-Halogen lamps.


    Thank you for the support guys.


    Cheers.

    Mark
    Last edited by Mark@LF; 07-10-2018 at 09:51 PM.
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  18. #48

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Thank you for the explanation, Mark, and thank you for doing what you do.

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    I'll gladly take Xenon only lamps versus no lamps at all! I am greatly appreciative that LumensFactory is still supporting us guys who still use incandescents.

    I sincerely hope they continue to produce lamps for a long time, otherwise these incandescent lights we love and adore will become nothing more than expensive paperweights.

  20. #50
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Again, thank you for the support guys.
    I am extremely grateful for all your support over the years.
    These are some hard times, but thanks to you guys we are still kicking.


    We have been asked many times in the past if we are going to discontinue the incandescent lineup.
    The answer is no, we will keep it as long as we could.
    Incandescent lamps is our roots and we have been making them since my Grandfathers days.
    Although to be honest, the incandescent sales has shrunk considerably and that is why almost every manufacturer stopped providing support for their incandescent products and discontinuing their incandescent lines.
    We still value it as part of our core and will not discontinue the lineup or cease the support.

    LEDs has came a long way and most people think incandescents are obsolete.
    But incandescents definitely has its uses and advantages.
    Colour rendition and light penatration during bad weather conditions are still valued among many users around the world.

    Plus, there is just this passion and warm feeling when using an incan that you donít get with LEDs.


    Cheers.

    Mark
    We will not fade silently into the night! Keep that hotwire burning!
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  21. #51

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Thanks Mark,

    And a bit off topic, but thanks for the Streamlight and Pelican stuff as well.
    John 3:16

  22. #52

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark@LF View Post
    Again, thank you for the support guys.
    I am extremely grateful for all your support over the years.
    These are some hard times, but thanks to you guys we are still kicking.


    We have been asked many times in the past if we are going to discontinue the incandescent lineup.
    The answer is no, we will keep it as long as we could.
    Incandescent lamps is our roots and we have been making them since my Grandfathers days.
    Although to be honest, the incandescent sales has shrunk considerably and that is why almost every manufacturer stopped providing support for their incandescent products and discontinuing their incandescent lines.
    We still value it as part of our core and will not discontinue the lineup or cease the support.

    LEDs has came a long way and most people think incandescents are obsolete.
    But incandescents definitely has its uses and advantages.
    Colour rendition and light penatration during bad weather conditions are still valued among many users around the world.

    Plus, there is just this passion and warm feeling when using an incan that you donít get with LEDs.


    Cheers.

    Mark
    Yes, thank you so much for continuing to support us incan junkies. The 2 lights I'll never live without is the A2 and the M4!

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    I'm sure anyone who has been in a snow storm with a flashlight will note that not only is the light quality much better, but the snow will melt off of the lens, unlike with an LED light. That's why you don't see LED traffic lights in a lot of northern States in the U.S.A.
    ampdude

  24. #54

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    What are the 4 flats going for these days?

  25. #55
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by mcm308 View Post
    What are the 4 flats going for these days?
    I'd say a lot. I've got rounded BNIB for reasonable money
    Last edited by id30209; 08-04-2018 at 08:05 AM.

  26. #56
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    A reminder that pricing questions are best addressed through a websearch please.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  27. #57
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    As a fresh owner i couldn't resist to check in as well. Using mine with koala ring and Tad's 3712. Amazing combo!
    @archimedes: sorry, post corrected

  28. #58

    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    A reminder that pricing questions are best addressed through a websearch please.
    Just thought Id ask. I had about 15 of them a few years ago. I remember nice ones were in the 200 range, looks quite a bit less now according to ebay completed listings. Round bodies going for cheap. Is there anything wrong with talking about the value of them?

  29. #59
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    Quote Originally Posted by mcm308 View Post
    .... Is there anything wrong with talking about the value of them?
    There are an enormous variety of factors that go into determining value, but at the same time, this information has very limited shelf life.

    The only hard data available is completed sales, which are easily searchable.

    Discussing these topics, in non sales threads, tends to cause off topic drift, pointless arguments, and ultimately moderation problems of various sorts (including price fishing and sales outside of the MarketPlace)

    Thanks for understanding.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  30. #60
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    Default Re: Surefire A2 Aviator Fan checking in

    You know I think itís the good memoryís I had with my old A2 that made me get one again.i used to ghost hunt quite a bit and loved the way the low leds would give me plenty of light to see all night and always had that high beam when I needed it.i have plenty of lights that are more powerful and longer running but still there is just something about it I love.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

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