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Thread: Preon P1 MKIII

  1. #301
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Mine came today and I decided to do a runtime test on medium. Straight out of the box, 3 hours and 45 minutes before it started strobing. I know, the battery wasn't fully charged and probably a little cold. I didn't notice if the output dropped before it started strobing.Popped in an Amazon Basics 800 mah nimh and got 5 hours and 16 minutes until the output jumped down to low. Now we're talkin'! No strobing this time, but I stopped the test as soon as it dropped.The tailcap however still seems to be glued on or something. I can get part of it off to replace the rubber boot, but can't remove the second half of the tail to replace the mechanism or remove the clip.
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  2. #302
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    Mine came today and I decided to do a runtime test on medium. Straight out of the box, 3 hours and 45 minutes before it started strobing. I know, the battery wasn't fully charged and probably a little cold. I didn't notice if the output dropped before it started strobing.Popped in an Amazon Basics 800 mah nimh and got 5 hours and 16 minutes until the output jumped down to low. Now we're talkin'! No strobing this time, but I stopped the test as soon as it dropped.The tailcap however still seems to be glued on or something. I can get part of it off to replace the rubber boot, but can't remove the second half of the tail to replace the mechanism or remove the clip.
    Congrats!
    The switches are pressed in. They can be maintained by pressing it out through the battery tube.
    I'll check , that second piece is either glued or fit in place with a press. I'll get more information
    about it.


    I just want to let everyone know that the Preon 1's & 2's, The Mini & Turbo MKIII's have dropped .

  3. #303

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    Mine came today and I decided to do a runtime test on medium. Straight out of the box, 3 hours and 45 minutes before it started strobing. I know, the battery wasn't fully charged and probably a little cold. I didn't notice if the output dropped before it started strobing.Popped in an Amazon Basics 800 mah nimh and got 5 hours and 16 minutes until the output jumped down to low. Now we're talkin'! No strobing this time, but I stopped the test as soon as it dropped.The tailcap however still seems to be glued on or something. I can get part of it off to replace the rubber boot, but can't remove the second half of the tail to replace the mechanism or remove the clip.
    I got my tailcaps off by twisting the whole tail, clip included. The clip seems to have given it the extra grip it needed to come off. I found no thread locker on any of my lights.

    I ordered (and received) a P2 in black, and P1's in black and copper. All of them are gorgeous, the black P1 is a gift for my buddy, and the P2 went right in my pocket. It's a GORGEOUS light. I've been using the limited run of P2 from Illumination Supply, from that exclusive they did years ago. This new P2 tops that light in every way.

    I'm so glad these lights exist.

    Thank you Jason for all the work that went into these beautiful pieces.

  4. #304
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    I can get part of it off to replace the rubber boot, but can't remove the second half of the tail to replace the mechanism or remove the clip.
    Quote Originally Posted by sticktodrum View Post
    I got my tailcaps off by twisting the whole tail, clip included. The clip seems to have given it the extra grip it needed to come off. I found no thread locker on any of my lights.

    I ordered (and received) a P2 in black, and P1's in black and copper. All of them are gorgeous, the black P1 is a gift for my buddy, and the P2 went right in my pocket. It's a GORGEOUS light. I've been using the limited run of P2 from Illumination Supply, from that exclusive they did years ago. This new P2 tops that light in every way.

    I'm so glad these lights exist.

    Thank you Jason for all the work that went into these beautiful pieces.
    I will add that if your tail caps inner threaded piece won't budge, please send an email to support@darksucks.com to resolve any troubles.

    Thank You sticktodrum for your reply.

  5. #305
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    None of the new Preons have thread lock anywhere in the light, so if it wonít unscrew you arenít trying hard enough That said, grabbing the whole assembly with the pocket clip included may be a good idea. We are also working on some special wrenches that we use in-house for repetitive work...similar to below. Just 3D Printing. Doubt it would be economical to machine them


  6. #306
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Okay, finally got it off, it's tricky as there's so little room to grab onto and the threads were screechy dry (other threads were fine btw.)

    So if I were to use a little sandpaper on the inside of the clip to help it grab onto my pocket better, what grit should I use?
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  7. #307
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    Okay, finally got it off, it's tricky as there's so little room to grab onto and the threads were screechy dry (other threads were fine btw.)

    So if I were to use a little sandpaper on the inside of the clip to help it grab onto my pocket better, what grit should I use?
    I would use caution. An 80 grit plumbers sand paper will work. It is backed on a durable waterproof textile backing that won't wear through like paper bonded sanding paper. The clip is Stainless so it will take a bit of patience and skill to prevent damage to lights finish and rough the clips surface and prevent damage to the body's finish. Removing the clip from the body before roughing it will prevent such damage. Also a center punch's marks will add the desired friction without the need to sand/scratch the clip's surface with the clip removed. Please share your results.

    I can add that industry uses specialty tools to grab and hold the threaded parts during assembly. The post from Jason shows a custom fabricated tool for the Delta Lights..


    Edit: Correction the MKIII's clips are made from steel.
    Last edited by Got Lumens?; 01-12-2019 at 09:41 AM.

  8. #308
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Got Lumens? View Post
    I would use caution. An 80 grit plumbers sand paper will work. It is backed on a durable waterproof textile backing that won't wear through like paper bonded sanding paper. The clip is titanium so it will take a bit of patience and skill to prevent damage to lights finish and rough the clips surface and prevent damage to the body's finish. Removing the clip from the body before roughing it will prevent such damage. Also a center punch's marks will add the desired friction without the need to sand/scratch the clip's surface with the clip removed. Please share your results.

    I can add that industry uses specialty tools to grab and hold the threaded parts during assembly. The post from Jason shows a custom fabricated tool for the Delta Lights..
    Thanks for the input! The idea would be to remove the clip before sanding it, hence my desire to get that part of the tailcap off.

    You mention the clip being titanium, are you sure about that? Seems like steel to me.

    EDIT: Just checked the site, it is steel.
    Last edited by defloyd77; 01-12-2019 at 05:18 AM.
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  9. #309

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by archer6817j View Post
    None of the new Preons have thread lock anywhere in the light, so if it wonít unscrew you arenít trying hard enough That said, grabbing the whole assembly with the pocket clip included may be a good idea. We are also working on some special wrenches that we use in-house for repetitive work...similar to below. Just 3D Printing. Doubt it would be economical to machine them

    Were assembling the delta by hand? Do you have plans to make the wrench available for sale on your website?

  10. #310
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    Thanks for the input! The idea would be to remove the clip before sanding it, hence my desire to get that part of the tailcap off.

    You mention the clip being titanium, are you sure about that? Seems like steel to me.

    EDIT: Just checked the site, it is steel.
    Sorry my mistake. I'm thinking of the Legacy Preon clips that were sold previously. corrrected
    Last edited by Got Lumens?; 01-12-2019 at 09:42 AM.

  11. #311

  12. #312

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Great photos.

    ~ cg
    Never point a flashlight at anything you don't intend to illuminate! Never buy a flashlight you have to make payments on.

  13. #313

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    thanks cg!

  14. #314

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    SNES, would you please be so kind as to identify that nice looking lockback folder? Thanks!

  15. #315
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    I'll take a stab at it and guess a Spyderco Native 5 G10?
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  16. #316

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimitz68 View Post
    SNES, would you please be so kind as to identify that nice looking lockback folder? Thanks!
    It is the Spyderco Native 5 Knifeworks Exclusive. S90V/Green G10

  17. #317
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    VERY interesting !

    Tell me --

    Can these be safely used with
    Energizer Lithium L92 cells ? ? ?

    Thank you.

  18. #318
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Newguy2012 View Post
    Were assembling the delta by hand? Do you have plans to make the wrench available for sale on your website?
    I'm not sure what you mean "by hand?" Is there any other way to do it? I was considering putting up some 3D printed wrenches, but I just got some new filament and I'm having issues with the print quality.

  19. #319
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    It happened quite a few times doing normal day to day tasks when I had the pre-production version. The clip was plenty tight, but 2 slick surfaces weren't enough friction for my somewhat thin and smooth pants fabric.
    So there is only so much you can ask of a pocket clip, IMO Saying that it slipped off thin and slippery fabric is kind of like saying my car slipped off the road when it was icy. You just can't (in life) have one thing that covers 100% of all circumstances. Sure, you can get studded tires, but then then you ruin them when it's dry.

    A pocket clip is held in place by static friction. The equation for static friction is Fs=us*N (static friction = coefficient of static friction * Normal force). This is a linear equation meaning you can increase the static friction the same amount by either increasing the coefficient (roughness) or the applied force. So, if your slippery AND thin it's basically a worst case scenario. Mathematically you'll have to add a LOT of roughness to see a practical increase in holding force (see my conclusion below). Since the clip is basically a spring, when the spring is "compressed" by slipping it over the material of your pocket, you effectively increase the Normal force and the holding ability of the clip.

    Logic would follow that the thicker the material the better the clip will hold, because this increases the Normal force. One of the big problems with older Preons is the texture (roughness) of the body would quickly destroy your pants pocket. I expect this would be even worse with a thin and slippery material. For me it doesn't make sense to ruin a pair of pants through normal use of a pocket tool, and that's why I opted to remove the roughness and trade it for more spring force.

    I have a linear force gage and just conducted a quick experiment using both the old Preon with textured body and a pre-production Preon (PVD Black) with the smoothest surface. To draw the light from my pocket, I get 1.8 lbs of force on the old Preon (rough body/old clip) and 1.4 lbs on the Pre-Production Preon (smooth body/new clip). This is only a 23% difference...not an order of magnitude. Next I put the new (stronger) clip on the old preon and got exactly 2 lbs of force. I also tested all of the current production Preons and did not note a statistically significant difference from the PVD finish. That is to say, the difference in coefficient is so small it's not noticeable.

    Conclusion: Okay, so yes there is a difference, but does that really matter in practice? I'd say no because you have to think about the physics of what is causing the light to come out of the pocket. It's getting pushed out, not just falling out on its own. This can happen for a variety of reasons. For example, I carry my wallet in my front right pocket (don't tell anyone) and I've noticed that with some short/fat lights (where the light sits just above the top of my wallet) these get pushed out of my pocket all the time when I sit down, because the light is being pushed by the wallet. It's not the fault of the pocket clip, it's the combination of factors: size/shape of the pocket, pants material, size/shape of my wallet, etc. The force generated in this situation is likely many pounds and no amount of (practical) tightness or roughness is going to keep that light in my pocket under these conditions. The only thing that will have a significant effect is changing that combination of conditions.

    These are of course my observations and you are more than welcome to rough up the clip and let us know how you get on. I could be wrong and I'm curious to know. Oh and I want to mention, designing flashlights is really easy as evidenced here.

  20. #320

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by SNES View Post
    It is the Spyderco Native 5 Knifeworks Exclusive. S90V/Green G10
    Very nice! Thanks for your response.

  21. #321
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    i just received this light, and e-mailed the company because I'm having a challenging time changing configurations, but thought I would check here, too. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Right now I am in configuration 1 (High), and if I quickly press the tailcap switch, on the last push, rather than "high" flash, it's a medium flash, which I assume is the flash indicating the configuration. From there, to switch to the next configuration, I'm supposed to the button one time to advance. Is this cycle just a "push" or a "click", and how quickly do you have to do it, and how long do you need to have the light on for the selection to occur. (I know you are supposed to have the light off for 5 seconds for the new configuration to be saved.) No matter what I try, I'm still in configuration 1. It's been tricky trying to figure this out. I've been in configuration 4 and 6, but cannot figure out how I got there, and how I'm now in configuration 1.

    Thanks in advance.

  22. #322
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by archer6817j View Post
    So there is only so much you can ask of a pocket clip, IMO Saying that it slipped off thin and slippery fabric is kind of like saying my car slipped off the road when it was icy. You just can't (in life) have one thing that covers 100% of all circumstances. Sure, you can get studded tires, but then then you ruin them when it's dry.

    A pocket clip is held in place by static friction. The equation for static friction is Fs=us*N (static friction = coefficient of static friction * Normal force). This is a linear equation meaning you can increase the static friction the same amount by either increasing the coefficient (roughness) or the applied force. So, if your slippery AND thin it's basically a worst case scenario. Mathematically you'll have to add a LOT of roughness to see a practical increase in holding force (see my conclusion below). Since the clip is basically a spring, when the spring is "compressed" by slipping it over the material of your pocket, you effectively increase the Normal force and the holding ability of the clip.

    Logic would follow that the thicker the material the better the clip will hold, because this increases the Normal force. One of the big problems with older Preons is the texture (roughness) of the body would quickly destroy your pants pocket. I expect this would be even worse with a thin and slippery material. For me it doesn't make sense to ruin a pair of pants through normal use of a pocket tool, and that's why I opted to remove the roughness and trade it for more spring force.

    I have a linear force gage and just conducted a quick experiment using both the old Preon with textured body and a pre-production Preon (PVD Black) with the smoothest surface. To draw the light from my pocket, I get 1.8 lbs of force on the old Preon (rough body/old clip) and 1.4 lbs on the Pre-Production Preon (smooth body/new clip). This is only a 23% difference...not an order of magnitude. Next I put the new (stronger) clip on the old preon and got exactly 2 lbs of force. I also tested all of the current production Preons and did not note a statistically significant difference from the PVD finish. That is to say, the difference in coefficient is so small it's not noticeable.

    Conclusion: Okay, so yes there is a difference, but does that really matter in practice? I'd say no because you have to think about the physics of what is causing the light to come out of the pocket. It's getting pushed out, not just falling out on its own. This can happen for a variety of reasons. For example, I carry my wallet in my front right pocket (don't tell anyone) and I've noticed that with some short/fat lights (where the light sits just above the top of my wallet) these get pushed out of my pocket all the time when I sit down, because the light is being pushed by the wallet. It's not the fault of the pocket clip, it's the combination of factors: size/shape of the pocket, pants material, size/shape of my wallet, etc. The force generated in this situation is likely many pounds and no amount of (practical) tightness or roughness is going to keep that light in my pocket under these conditions. The only thing that will have a significant effect is changing that combination of conditions.

    These are of course my observations and you are more than welcome to rough up the clip and let us know how you get on. I could be wrong and I'm curious to know. Oh and I want to mention, designing flashlights is really easy as evidenced here.
    You're a funny man.

    I never had the MKII Preons, so I don't know how, so I don't know how much the ribs would or would not have helped. The original Preons though also had a problem staying clipped.

    Hey, I'm being honest here and stating my observations here. I've owned and carried plenty of lights and not too many of them come unclipped from my pants unintentionally.

    As far as roughing up a clip, I'll give it a try once I get some sandpaper and a guinea pig clip to test it out on, don't want to go messing up the clip until I'm sure I'm going to keep it.
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  23. #323
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    As far as roughing up a clip, I'll give it a try once I get some sandpaper and a guinea pig clip to test it out on, don't want to go messing up the clip until I'm sure I'm going to keep it.
    You could go all out with some skateboard tape

  24. #324
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by archer6817j View Post
    You could go all out with some skateboard tape
    I actually tried some self adhering silicone tape around the body, couldn't even get the damn thing to slide into my pocket!
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  25. #325
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Ordered my Preon P1 MK3 today !


    Just out of curiosity,
    what is/was the PWM rate of
    47's Q-Mini (1xAA) flashlight ?

    I could see and detect its PWM,
    but just Barely.

  26. #326

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by archer6817j View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean "by hand?" Is there any other way to do it? I was considering putting up some 3D printed wrenches, but I just got some new filament and I'm having issues with the print quality.
    I meant without the aid of your 3d wrench. You gave me a solution to loosing the bezel by use a hotpad as an aid to unscrew it. I was wondering if you did it that way.
    I would be interested in one 3d printed wrench set, plus a TIR optic if you decide to make it available.

  27. #327
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    Default Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by archer6817j View Post
    Yep not even a bad looking light.
    Hey Newguy2012, When I was taking pictures of my New MK III Preons I took the time to do a couple comparison shots of the original BetaQR and the Worm in both Nickel & Copper. The shot with the Quick Replease mechanisms removed is especially telling. Funny this I bought one of every color Worm and never realized the similarityís until I read Jasonís comment in this thread....
    https://i.imgur.com/u6GnoTN.jpg
    With the QR(Quick Release) mechanismís removed(1st & 2nd generation):
    https://i.imgur.com/xaykcKW.jpg
    For reference the 1st & 3rd Lights are Beta QR, and #2 & #4 are Worms).

  28. #328

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post

    You must have a pretty small collection then, seems everyone has ripped somebody off at one point or another.
    Please identify the ripoff.

    ~ Chance

    Never point a flashlight at anything you don't intend to illuminate! Never buy a flashlight you have to make payments on.

  29. #329
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    ^Showoff

    Is that your entire collection?
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  30. #330
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Newguy2012 View Post
    I would be interested in one 3d printed wrench set, plus a TIR optic if you decide to make it available.
    TIR Optics

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncey Gardiner View Post
    Please identify the ripoff.

    ~ Chance
    You asked . . .
    The clips on all the Preon MKII's were ripped off, with permission though


    Speaking of clips, There are some positive differences between the MKII and MKIII clips.
    The MKIII clips are a blt longer and feature gradual sloping bends allowing easier and
    attachment to thicker fabrics.
    Last edited by Got Lumens?; Yesterday at 09:57 AM.

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