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Thread: Preon P1 MKIII

  1. #361
    Flashaholic* vadimax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tachead View Post
    Wow, what a read.

    Might I suggest more thorough testing before releasing a product to the public Jason. I know you can't always catch everything but, in the competitive marketplace we live in these kinds of issues have to be minimized for a company to excel. It may cost more and take longer to get products to the market but, in the end people just aren't going to repeat buy if they have experiences like some are having in this thread.

    Hopefully things will smooth out in the log run and I wish you the best.
    Sometimes I start to believe I have a “feeling” I had pre-ordered the light, but cancelled my order some time later.

  2. #362
    Flashaholic* archer6817j's Avatar
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    Default Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Tachead View Post
    Wow, what a read.

    Might I suggest more thorough testing before releasing a product to the public Jason. I know you can't always catch everything but, in the competitive marketplace we live in these kinds of issues have to be minimized for a company to excel. It may cost more and take longer to get products to the market but, in the end people just aren't going to repeat buy if they have experiences like some are having in this thread.

    Hopefully things will smooth out in the log run and I wish you the best.
    Honestly, if we were opaque and tried to cover things up like most companies do, we’d have less strife. But I choose to be transparent and communicate because those are my principles. The ethical path is definitely the harder one.

    As far as what we “should” be doing, are you a flashlight manufacturing expert looking for a job? It’s a lot easier to type comments into a forum than actually getting that thing done. We are not the only company to have ever made a mistake or to have had a manufacturing problem, but we tackle our problems head on and in the light of day. It’s even harder at our small scale. The worlds largest companies have the same issues. Boeing, Tesla, and Toyota come immediately to mind. And they have billions of dollars in resources and thousands of employees to make sure those problems don’t happen, and they still happen. It’s not as easy as it looks.
    Last edited by archer6817j; 02-07-2019 at 11:58 PM.

  3. #363

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    I think you might be missing the fact that these drivers in those preons are quite ambitious and significantly more sophisticated than most flashlights out there, let alone single cell AAA lights. Trying to hunt down programming bugs is difficult for companies on any scale. That’s why so many apps on phones get updated constantly with “bug fixes”. It would be even more frustrating when you find a bug, fix it, only to have it reappear when you go from test run to production run. Had these been a simple low/medium/high type UI I’m certain there would be no issues. But that would not be the same product.

  4. #364
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleFrodo View Post
    I think you might be missing the fact that these drivers in those preons are quite ambitious and significantly more sophisticated than most flashlights out there, let alone single cell AAA lights. Trying to hunt down programming bugs is difficult for companies on any scale. That’s why so many apps on phones get updated constantly with “bug fixes”. It would be even more frustrating when you find a bug, fix it, only to have it reappear when you go from test run to production run. Had these been a simple low/medium/high type UI I’m certain there would be no issues. But that would not be the same product.
    It's the hybrid memory responsible for the bug. As far as hunting down bugs, well it didn't take a few CPF members that long to unintentinally find them so...........
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  5. #365

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    I’m pretty certain Jason actually has a clause about this exact thing in his policies...

  6. #366
    Flashaholic* archer6817j's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    It's the hybrid memory responsible for the bug. As far as hunting down bugs, well it didn't take a few CPF members that long to unintentinally find them so...........
    And I thank those members for reporting any issues so that we can address them. I have personally been carrying a P2 since the launch and during everyday use, did not notice the memory bug.

    I would also mention that outside of CPF I have not had a single customer report any issues with the run time on the pre-production lights or the memory bug in current production lights. Two things fall out of this. (1) 99.9% of people are happy with the lights. (2) I wouldn’t know those problems existed if it weren’t for the help of CPF members.

  7. #367

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncey Gardiner View Post
    Jason's Don't Be A Jerk clause only pertains to those requesting a refund / return.

    ~ Chance
    I find that clause to be applicable to most areas of life and most interactions with people in general.
    For example, I recently decided to open up the head of a light from a very well known maker and try to adjust the reflector. It was a success, briefly, and in my excitement, I got careless and ended up accidentally scratching the reflector while getting it settled back down. An E-mail to that maker explaining that it was my fault and I desired to buy a new reflector resulted in him offering to send me the new reflector for free, and only made me pay shipping. Insanely generous, and not something I expected. What a pleasant surprise.

  8. #368
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by archer6817j View Post
    And I thank those members for reporting any issues so that we can address them. I have personally been carrying a P2 since the launch and during everyday use, did not notice the memory bug.

    I would also mention that outside of CPF I have not had a single customer report any issues with the run time on the pre-production lights or the memory bug in current production lights. Two things fall out of this. (1) 99.9% of people are happy with the lights. (2) I wouldn’t know those problems existed if it weren’t for the help of CPF members.
    Have you ever considered leveraging what you have here by having a few of the fine folks here test out a few preproduction samples to help iron out the wrinkles before committing to the full production? Sure, it will slow things down some, but would help prevent future headaches.

    We love Foursevens and want it to continue to succeed.
    Last edited by defloyd77; 02-10-2019 at 03:31 AM.
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

  9. #369

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by defloyd77 View Post
    Have you ever considered leveraging what you have here by having a few of the fine folks here test out a few preproduction samples to help iron out the wrinkles before committing to the full production? Sure, it will slow things down some, but would help prevent future headaches.

    We love Foursevens and want it to continue to ssucceed.
    OMG- I would TOTALLY volunteer to be a guinea pig for 47s and Prometheus Lights...

  10. #370

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by archer6817j View Post
    Honestly, if we were opaque and tried to cover things up like most companies do, we’d have less strife. But I choose to be transparent and communicate because those are my principles. The ethical path is definitely the harder one.

    As far as what we “should” be doing, are you a flashlight manufacturing expert looking for a job? It’s a lot easier to type comments into a forum than actually getting that thing done. We are not the only company to have ever made a mistake or to have had a manufacturing problem, but we tackle our problems head on and in the light of day. It’s even harder at our small scale. The worlds largest companies have the same issues. Boeing, Tesla, and Toyota come immediately to mind. And they have billions of dollars in resources and thousands of employees to make sure those problems don’t happen, and they still happen. It’s not as easy as it looks.
    Amen! As a software developer for complex electro-mechanical systems, I feel your pain. I appreciate your candor and integrity and based on my experience so far with your company I am a customer for life.

  11. #371
    Flashaholic* archer6817j's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    @Tachead,

    I apologize for the tenor of my post in response to yours. Upon re-reading I can see that you were making a simple suggestion and I responded to that in the context of other criticism on this thread (it's been a long one), and I should have considered your comment independently. You are right, we'll do our best to tighten up our processes as that is clearly the required course of action. I'm frustrated with the situation in general, not at you personally, and I'm sorry for being...a jerk...as I would put it.

    Cheers,
    Jason
    Last edited by archer6817j; 02-10-2019 at 10:46 PM.

  12. #372

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    The way this thread turned out is not making me want to buy a Foursevens or Prometheus light...it got real angry real fast...

  13. #373
    Flashaholic* Crazyeddiethefirst's Avatar
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    Default Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephron44 View Post
    The way this thread turned out is not making me want to buy a Foursevens or Prometheus light...it got real angry real fast...
    Too bad, these are awesome lights and Jason has always shown great integrity. If you ever own your own business and have undeserved accusations and criticisms thrown your way it might be easier to understand. I think the above post by Jason also speaks volumes about his character. Not every flashlight and every company is a perfect fit for every customer. I have dealt with Jason for a long time. He took the time to answer my emails long before I ever bought a single product. I own a lot of his lights, and other products, some bought new, many bought used. I am thrilled with their performance, dependability, and a design that shows even the most minute details were considered from all points whether it be aesthetically, performance, or reliability. Note that less than 1% of customers outside CPF have had any complaints regarding the MK III Preons. More importantly, he is active here on CPF listening to and responding to things important to us “flashaholics”.
    Although I have a very large collection of flashlights, I always carry at least one or two Four Sevens or Prometheus/Dark Sucks lights at all times. These are in addition to my PK Designs Lights and my custom Surefire Executive Elite Lights. The common denominator? I trust them. All light can and will fail-and yet, of the lights I just mentioned, none have. I am no longer a Cardiac Nurse Specialist with an Open Heart Surgical team, not a Chief Flight Nurse with an Air Ambulance Company so my day to day use may not always be a life or death matter, but I still choose what I carry as if at any time my life or someone else’s may depend on it. For those reasons, I expect to be a customer for the life of the company, just as I was when David Chow owned Four Sevens. No regrets!
    Last edited by Crazyeddiethefirst; 02-11-2019 at 12:55 AM.

  14. #374

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Nephron44 View Post
    The way this thread turned out is not making me want to buy a Foursevens or Prometheus light...it got real angry real fast...
    Opposite for me. Customer for life. Tough position to be in. Almost always, the company can only lose the discussion once the dipshits join the conversation. Best to literally not reply to any direct criticism if you are going to stay in the thread (i.e. not engage that person directly), but to address the problems and answer the questions that will address the criticism if it is valid without referencing that actual poster of the criticism at all.

  15. #375

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    I'll take one Satin and one Copper MKIII P2 please. ... er, em. Order placed.

    ~ Chance
    Never point a flashlight at anything you don't intend to illuminate! Never buy a flashlight you have to make payments on.

  16. #376

    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Thanks, Jason. The MKIII arrived. They remind me of Sidra. They're real and they're spectacular!

    ~ Chance
    Never point a flashlight at anything you don't intend to illuminate! Never buy a flashlight you have to make payments on.

  17. #377
    Flashaholic* Got Lumens?'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncey Gardiner View Post
    Thanks, Jason. The MKIII arrived. They remind me of Sidra. They're real and they're spectacular!

    ~ Chance
    Congrats Chance

  18. #378
    Flashaholic* archer6817j's Avatar
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Chauncey Gardiner View Post
    Thanks, Jason. The MKIII arrived. They remind me of Sidra. They're real and they're spectacular!

    ~ Chance
    Lookin’ classy

  19. #379
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    Default Re: Preon P1 MKIII

    I have to say that I'm REALLY loving the choice of 1 lumen as the low vs a 3-5 lumen low like previous Preons and other AAA light models who shall remain unnamed or sub 1 lumen moonlight/firefly modes that just get in the way 80 percent of the time.
    What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

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