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Thread: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

  1. #1

    Buttrock NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Friday September 7, 2018 at noon Tucson time...

    Like the Cabbage Patch kids of Christmas past, let the pushing and fighting begin.

    The NI-AL-Bronze light will go on sale. Only 20 will be available. Base price is $590. Rotary and Tactical only. They will ship just after the Titanium lights ship.

    Standard emitters will be available of course, along with the current limited emitters as well as:

    Nichia 219b 9080 4500k No, you won't be able to get a standard aluminum light with this emitter at this time.
    Nichia 219b 9080 4000k (first time offered) No, you won't be able to get a standard aluminum light with this emitter at this time.

    I expect these will be sold out in the first 2 minutes once it goes live if the titanium run is any indication.

    Friday September 14, 2018 at noon Tucson time...

    42 Naval Brass lights will go on sale. This is 464 Naval Brass. Base price is $550. Emitter choice will be updated after the Bronze run. Most likely, the same emitter choices on the Bronze run will also be available for this run, but will have to see at the end of the first 2 minutes of the bronze run.

    Just playing with colors on the computer...
    Last edited by Hogokansatsukan; 08-14-2018 at 09:24 AM.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    These are going to go so quick lol... I’m waiting for the Nat HAIII run. Good luck everyone!! May the odds be ever in your favor...

  3. #3

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    How can one check out so fast. I like to review my selections before I check out. Otherwise, I have to select anything and request changes after...

  4. #4
    Flashaholic* Tejasandre's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Be quick , or be out.

  5. #5

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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerealand View Post
    How can one check out so fast. I like to review my selections before I check out. Otherwise, I have to select anything and request changes after...
    For Titanium, I practiced going down the page methodically clicking every option (even if it was defaulted, because defaults can change). On the day of, I made sure I was already logged into PayPal so that would be fast, and then practiced going through checking out a few times.

  6. #6

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Getting serious. Training for checking out @ HDS.

    Any prediction picture of how the bronze aluminum will look?
    Last edited by Cerealand; 08-14-2018 at 09:28 AM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerealand View Post
    Getting serious. Training for checking out @ HDS.

    Any prediction picture of how the bronze aluminum will look?
    Just playing with colors...


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  8. #8
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Any idea on what the difference in carry weight will be between the Aluminum, Bronze, and Brass?

  9. #9

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by RCS1300 View Post
    Any idea on what the difference in carry weight will be between the Aluminum, Bronze, and Brass?
    My best guess is... heavier.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Heavy enough to require a Thor's holster.

  11. #11

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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    My best guess is... heavier.
    If we had the weight of just the metal body without internals, and the weight of a complete light, I think we may be able to approximate the final weight with some math.

    Aluminum: 0.0975 lbs/in^3 [1]
    464 Naval Brass ("Tobin Bronze"): 0.304 lbs/in^3 [1]
    Aluminum Bronze (w/Nickel): 0.276 lbs/in^3 [2]

    [1] http://www.sequoia-brass-copper.com/wformula.html
    [2] http://www.chemistrylearner.com/aluminum-bronze.html

  12. #12
    Flashaholic glimmer's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    .....
    Last edited by glimmer; 08-14-2018 at 12:08 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by RCS1300 View Post
    Any idea on what the difference in carry weight will be between the Aluminum, Bronze, and Brass?
    Aluminum 100 grams
    Bronze, Alum. 286 grams
    Brass 320
 grams

    1 Bronze HDS will weigh 1/2 oz less than 3 aluminum HDS
    1 Brass HDS will weigh 3/4 oz more than 3 aluminum HDS

  14. #14
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    My best guess is... heavier.
    I can be more specific. Maybe the weight difference can be roughly calculated. When building the lights do you know what the potted light engine weighs?

    The reason I ask is that the weight difference between Aluminum and Brass and Bronze bodies may be insignificant as a percentage of the total weight of the light that includes the battery and light engine.
    Last edited by RCS1300; 08-14-2018 at 10:57 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Damn that's heavy!

  16. #16

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by RCS1300 View Post
    the weight difference between Aluminum and Brass and Bronze bodies may be insignificant as a percentage of the total weight of the light that includes the battery and light engine.
    youre right!
    I just weighed an aluminum and copper version of the same light, and even though copper weighs 3.3 to 1 over aluminum, the copper light only weighs 84% more than the aluminum one. Both lights include the same 16340 batteries.

    So if I had to guess the weight of an HDS in Brass, compared to aluminum, I would say it will weigh only 81% more,
    and the bronze would weigh only 72% more than aluminum.

    iow a Brass HDS will weigh about 19% less than 2 aluminum HDS
    and a Bronze HDS will weigh about 28% less than 2 aluminum HDS

  17. #17

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post
    Aluminum 100 grams
    Bronze, Alum. 286 grams
    Brass 320
 grams

    1 Bronze HDS will weigh 1/2 oz less than 3 aluminum HDS
    1 Brass HDS will weigh 3/4 oz more than 3 aluminum HDS
    I don't think these numbers are accurate. Sure brass is 3.1 times as heavy as aluminum, but it looks like you're assuming all 100g of an HDS is aluminum. But the bezel, reflector, light engine, battery, and switch will not change weight. Without knowing the volume of or mass of just aluminum we can't make a meaningful estimate.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Ok guys and gals, I've spied an opportunity to do some math.

    First up, some data:

    6061 Al density - 2.7g/cc - http://asm.matweb.com/search/Specifi...ssnum=ma6061t6
    6Al-4V Ti density - 4.43g/cc - http://asm.matweb.com/search/Specifi...bassnum=mtp641

    Al HDS clicky - 102g - https://www.hdssystems.com/Products/EDC-E1S-250/
    Ti HDS clicky - 122g - http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...a-Clicky-10087

    Let V be the volume of host material in cc. Then we know

    4.43 * V = 2.7 * V + (122 - 102)

    (4.43 - 2.7) * V = 20

    1.73 * V = 20

    V = 11.56

    So an HDS has approximately 11.56cc of host metal.

    EDIT: Continued

    Naval Brass density - 8.41g/cc - https://elginfasteners.com/resources...val-brass-464/
    Al Nickel Bronze - 7.58g/cc - https://elginfasteners.com/resources...nickel-bronze/

    Weight increase for brass:
    (8.41g/cc * 11.56cc) - (2.7g/cc * 11.56cc) = 66.0g
    A 66g increase vs Al puts us at 168g total

    Weight increase for Al bronze:
    (7.58g/cc * 11.56cc) - (2.7g/cc * 11.56cc) = 56.4g
    158.4g total

    Feel free to double check my work, which is only an approximation and also uses clicky not rotary.
    Last edited by Random Dan; 08-14-2018 at 12:02 PM.
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  19. #19
    Modernflame's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    You guys almost make me think I'm normal, O Knights of Nerdicity.
    “May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.”
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    Flashaholic d13avo's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Thanks for the info Dan 🏻

  21. #21

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Modernflame View Post
    You guys almost make me think I'm normal, O Knights of Nerdicity.
    Sometimes you just gotta take a break from work and solve for some unknown quantities. It's like meditating, or yoga.
    Hello darkness my old friend,
    I've come to talk with you again...
    I liked neutral tints before they were cool.

  22. #22
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Modernflame View Post
    You guys almost make me think I'm normal, O Knights of Nerdicity.
    Or not :-)

  23. #23
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Sorry, I dozed off there.
    Can you take me through it from Post #2?
    P

  24. #24
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    So, what might HDS lights made of these new materials weigh?...(Random Dan, I took a different approach using ratios, densities, and the known weight of a HDS clicky aluminum light and HDS Rotary Ti light. Hopefully, Modernflame does not blow a head gasket :-))

    Disclaimer - these numbers may or may not be accurate. It is my best guess based on available information. Use at your own risk.

    Quote Originally Posted by tyu View Post

    Aluminum: 0.0975 lbs/in^3 [1]
    464 Naval Brass ("Tobin Bronze"): 0.304 lbs/in^3 [1]
    Aluminum Bronze (w/Nickel): 0.276 lbs/in^3 [2]

    [1] http://www.sequoia-brass-copper.com/wformula.html
    [2] http://www.chemistrylearner.com/aluminum-bronze.html
    Plus: Ti-6AL-4V titanium density is 0.160 lbs/in3

    [3] https://www.upmet.com/products/titanium/ti-6al-4v

    Weight of Aluminum HDS clicky light is: 102 grams
    Weight of Titanium HDS light is: 122 grams



    Let's crunch some numbers. Ready, go:

    a. figure out the weight of aluminum in the HDS clicky light: Answer is 31.2 grams.

    Formula = Density of Aluminum/Density of Titanium equals Amount of Aluminum in HDS light/Amount of Aluminum in HDS light plus 20 grams.

    (The 20 grams is the incremental weight of the Ti HDS light compared to the Aluminum HDS light, or 122 grams minus 102 grams)

    .0975/.160=A/A+20 or .16A=.0975A+1.95 grams or a=31.2 grams

    b. figure out the weight of the Titanium in the HDS light: Answer is 51.2 grams which is 31.2 grams plus 20 grams.

    c. figure out the weight of 464 Navel Brass in a HDS light: Answer is 97.28 grams

    Formula = Density of Aluminum/Density of 464 Navel Brass equals Weight of Aluminum in HDS light/Weight of 464 Navel brass in an HDS light.

    .0975/.304=31.2/B or .0975B=9.4848 or B=97.28 grams

    d. figure out the weight of Aluminum Bronze in a HDS light: Answer is 88.32 grams

    Formula = Density of Aluminum/Density of Aluminum Bronze equals Weight of Aluminum in HDS light/Weight of Aluminum Bronze in HDS light.

    .0975/.276=31.2/AB or .0975AB=8.6112 or AB=88.32 grams

    e. figure out the weight of a HDS light without the aluminum. Answer is 70.8 grams which is the weight of the light 102 grams minus the weight of the Aluminum in the light 31.2 grams.

    Okay, so...the approximate weights of the lights are:

    Aluminum: 102 grams
    Titanium: 122 grams
    Navel Brass: 168 grams (which is a HDS clicky without Aluminum 70.8 grams plus the weight of Navel Brass 97.28 grams)
    Aluminum Bronze: 159.12 grams (which is a HDS clicky without Aluminum 70.8 grams plus the weight of Aluminum Bronze 88.32 grams).

  25. #25
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Thank you, I can sleep a happy bunny.
    P

  26. #26

    Buttrock Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Dan View Post
    ...
    Al HDS clicky - 102g
    ...
    Naval Brass...66.0g
    ...
    Al bronze:...56.4g
    Thanks for the advanced math class
    beautiful numbers!:-)

    so, compared to Al
    Ti is only 20% heavier (about the weight of 4 USANickel coins)
    AlBronze is only 55% heavier, and (about the weight of 11 USANickel coins)
    Brass is just 65% heavier (about the weight of 13 USANickel coins)

    the difference in weight between the NBrass andABronze is just 10 cents, 2 nickels!

    so, has anyone received their sw45 9080 yet? What are some of your first impressions?

    I just received a 219b 4500k 9080 from Bali this morning.
    Last edited by jon_slider; 08-14-2018 at 05:45 PM.

  27. #27

    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    I am going to stick to my original answer of "heavier".

    Let me just throw a little curve into all this.... the bezel is stainless steel on the aluminum light, but is the corresponding material on titanium, bronze, and brass.
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  28. #28
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    I am going to stick to my original answer of "heavier".

    Let me just throw a little curve into all this.... the bezel is stainless steel on the aluminum light, but is the corresponding material on titanium, bronze, and brass.
    Not a problem. Just subtract out the weight of the SS bezel from the aluminum light, calculate bezel weight separately for each material, rerun the numbers in the formulas, and add back in the respective bezel weights. That aside, i have a reasonable approximation of weights to make a purchase decision!

  29. #29
    Modernflame's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    Wait...I mean, weight. I mean hold on a second. What decision have you made and why?

    Edit: I ask because I'm on the fence on this one.
    Last edited by Modernflame; 08-14-2018 at 08:30 PM.
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  30. #30
    Flashaholic* INFRNL's Avatar
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    Default Re: NI-AL-Bronze and 464 Naval Brass HDS going on sale...

    I really want one of ea of these but I have a feeling I won't be quick enough. Glad the sale is coming though

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