Worth upgrading to SureFire E2D Defender 1,000 lumens?

I currently have the SureFire E2D Defender 500 lumens, and just got the email from SureFire about the new 1,000 lumen version. I wanted to get your knowledgeable opinions on whether I should or should not upgrade. I like the idea of having a brighter flashlight (not that I need one), but is there such a thing as too many lumens?

Thank ou in advance!

mrbofus said:

... is there such a thing as too many lumens? ...

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Sure, someone around here even came up with a graph to explain this ...



The more challenging question is ... is there such a thing as too few lumens ? ... :thinking:

archimedes said:

Sure, someone around here even came up with a graph to explain this ...

The more challenging question is ... is there such a thing as too few lumens ? ... :thinking:

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LOL!!!

I find my self asking how low is moon light, and what are my lower settings as well.. will my batteries last forever in those modes.. What is the beam pattern.. i dont want none of them throwy lights.(though i just bought my first true thower, but it is not a lumen monster.)


OP.. to answer your question.. probably not. 500 is still a lot of freaking light with a surefire TIR lens. I mean unless you want a reason to buy something.. by all means do it!!
Have you used your light and said.. I wish I could light up something further... more than once?

Just be cognizant that it will not be able to sustain 1000 lumens for very long on 2xCR123's. The current draw would over heat the batteries. A light this small also does not have enough thermal mass to dissipate the heat from the emitter. It will step back down to a more comfortable 500ish lumens pretty quick.

The question of whether it's worth it depends on your use case. If it's truly a self defense light and will only be used for flash and dash techniques, then it doesn't matter about the heat. If the light will have any utilitarian, edc type use, then it would not be worth the upgrage, at least in my opinion.

One other thing. The difference between 500 and 1000 lumens will be noticeable but not overwhelming.

Thank you all for the replies. 500 lumens is plenty bright for me, so I think I'll just stick with that for now. Between carrying the E2D (500 lumens) and the Titan Plus as my EDC lights (except when I'm wearing a suit), I think I'm good for now. Thanks again!

I Use E2D 500 lumens for my EDC.
I test with Fenix PD35 Tac I Ilke E2D more Fenix.
I think to upgrade or not. I want to see review and Candella first.
Thank

Modernflame said:

Just be cognizant that it will not be able to sustain 1000 lumens for very long on 2xCR123's. The current draw would over heat the batteries. A light this small also does not have enough thermal mass to dissipate the heat from the emitter. It will step back down to a more comfortable 500ish lumens pretty quick.

The question of whether it's worth it depends on your use case. If it's truly a self defense light and will only be used for flash and dash techniques, then it doesn't matter about the heat. If the light will have any utilitarian, edc type use, then it would not be worth the upgrage, at least in my opinion.

One other thing. The difference between 500 and 1000 lumens will be noticeable but not overwhelming.

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I guess we will have to measure an actual sample but the current E2DL-U is already at 600 lumens. Seems like they heard the concerns people had from the EDCL-2T and dialed back the power a bit from 1200 lumens which *could* translate to quite a bit lower drive current.

There has been an number of 2x123 1000 lumen(claimed) lights on the market and I seldom hear significant complaint of overheating cells on those.

I read that 500lm E2D can sustain the high output for only half an hour with 2CR123. Based from that I don't find it a good idea to double the brightness. The result will be very short runtime and I think the cells become pretty hot after a short while continious run.

archimedes said:

Sure, someone around here even came up with a graph to explain this ...

The more challenging question is ... is there such a thing as too few lumens ? ... :thinking:

Click to expand...

Hahaha I am looking to build a mule head for a LF E-Series 1 cell body. I am hoping to get about 175-250 lumens and a 1+ hour run time.

Upgrade!!!!!! You will find there are times you need a brighter light even for a few seconds to spot something.

Swedpat said:

I read that 500lm E2D can sustain the high output for only half an hour with 2CR123. Based from that I don't find it a good idea to double the brightness. The result will be very short runtime and I think the cells become pretty hot after a short while continious run.

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that would be the case if they are using the same LED. Do you have info on what LED is going into the new 1000 lumen version? I know the 1200 lumen EDCL2T is a very different LED than that of the E2DL U.

270winchester said:

that would be the case if they are using the same LED. Do you have info on what LED is going into the new 1000 lumen version? I know the 1200 lumen EDCL2T is a very different LED than that of the E2DL U.

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I actually don't know yet. But I doubt the LED is close to twice as efficient. There are many examples of "upgrades" of models with much higher brightness but none or 10-20% more efficient LEDs. So I am sure this is another case of lumen race with higher lumen as a selling argument but with shorter runtime instead.

Sorry, I lost track of this thread somehow.

At any rate, according to Surefire's website, the 1,000 lumens E2DLU-T will run for 2.75 hours at high output, while the 500 lumens version, if I remember correctly, was either 2.25 or 2.5 hours at high output. So unless I am misremembering, it seems like at worst, the runtime will be the same, with the more likely best case being that the runtime will be slightly longer with the 1,000 lumens version.

I am still on the fence about this (which probably means I'll buy it soon, since I've been on the fence for 4 months), but so far, aside from my wallet getting lighter, there don't seem to be any downsides to this light...? Plus this will give me an excuse to upgrade to the LFP 123A batteries...

Swedpat said:

I actually don't know yet. But I doubt the LED is close to twice as efficient. There are many examples of "upgrades" of models with much higher brightness but none or 10-20% more efficient LEDs. So I am sure this is another case of lumen race with higher lumen as a selling argument but with shorter runtime instead.

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Keep in mind, that surefire uses "down to a tactical 50 lumens" in their fine print.

The best way to see how much of that is close to 500 or 1000 lumens is by a runtime graph. Otherwise you have no idea how that particular step down works. A good read to understand this is in a review on the flashlight guide website. Look up Elzetta Charlie vs Surefire P3X Fury and scroll down to the runtime graphs. You will see it boil down to a lower lumen count but steadier for longer (elzetta) or higher output but quicker to drop down.

Take the advertisement with a grain of salt and weigh whether you need the higher output or not.

Wait, what am I saying?!? This is CPF!! Buy it!! :twothumbs

There's actually another thread here about the same light and this is my response:
Has anyone tried this out in the field, not indoors? Paper, graphs, and numbers don't actually tell me most of what I want to know.
I had the 200, have the 500, not seen the 600 or 1000. 500 is way better than the 200 but the 500 clip breaks easily after time and for using as a glass breaker on tempered glass (vehicle) my bezel tips bent but no window broke. The only benefit fo me to ditch the 500 and get the 1000 is if the 1000 doubles the distance otherwise 500 is plenty enough. Don't forget lumens is just a number now and there are several other factors that determine how much light there is and how far it ll go.

from a Flash in the Eyes self defense position, is the new 1000 lumen E2D much better than the original E2D?
i would rather upgrade the lamp (if possible) rather then shell out again!

thx
Mark

SteelriverMark said:

from a Flash in the Eyes self defense position, is the new 1000 lumen E2D much better than the original E2D?
i would rather upgrade the lamp (if possible) rather then shell out again!

thx
Mark

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probably wouldn't hurt to wait to see what the 2021 surefire new releases are. If they make a new e2d maybe last years model will drop in price. As for temporarily blinding someone, the more the merrier. The darker it is when you do it the more effective it can be. If surefire wants to stay in the lumens race they should be pumping out some 1800-2200 lumen flashlights next season

All I can say is I had the 1000 lumen model and that thing was bright and threw a friken ton! Two different animals but it was brighter by far then my M91's. Problem I had with it "depending on your beliefs " was current draw. Dam thing was pulling close to 3 Amps "I think" off of 123's. But it was seriously bright.

Regardless of what they claim, you will be going through more batteries. You cannot use 90 cent batteries either. You need to use quality name brand batteries with any high output flashlight. Mainly I prefer rechargeable lights to primary. CR123A is a particular waste of money. They are low MAH for a lot of money on good ones. Then if you do have a rechargeable light, it needs to be of high quality. So the tail cap threads easily ETC. I would not charge via USB. There are a rechargeable CR123A format cell but not recommended for use in flashlights AFAIK. There are much brighter lights on a single 18350. If American made $$$$ though. Honestly The 500 lumen model goes through too many batteries for my taste. I like the E2D 200 lumen. Beyond that I go to a rechargeable. You do not realize it but if you think the light is expensive in 2 years you will spend twice that on batteries. That is just my feeling, YMMV.

SteelriverMark said:

from a Flash in the Eyes self defense position, is the new 1000 lumen E2D much better than the original E2D?

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it is brighter, so it can blind someone farther away

it will also burn through batteries faster.. good for surefire battery sales

disposables have more than double the capacity of rechargeables

CR123A 3v, capacity 1,550 mAh
LFP123A 3.2v, capacity 600mAh
note you cannot use 3.7v LiIon 16340, capacity 700mAh

https://www.surefire.com/faq/
"rechargeable batteries will be depleted in about half the time of the disposable batteries."