Okay, my Grandma was renting her house to a nice guy, he had wanted to buy the house from her, but when she dies she is going to leave it to my mom and uncle. So he decided to find a house that he could buy, so he had a cousin that was interested in renting her house. so he has been in there awhile, but he hasnt paid february or marchs rent. She tried to call him, yesterday and she asked for Todd. The renter, but the guy that answered said you have the wrong number. He is trying to avoid my Grandma, she called again today, and it went to the answering machine. She is really scared, she needs the money desperately. The bad thing is that she doesnt have a contract with the guy whos living there. So is there anything she can do to get the money thats owed to her?, I hope someone can help. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
mygrandmas having problems with her renters have ?
- Thread starter bigmikey
- Start date
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raggie33
*the raggedier*
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2003
- Messages
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i think she has to go to a judge to get a evtion notice .but im not positvie.laws are probaly difent state to state
eluminator
Flashlight Enthusiast
I sympathize with you and your grandmother. I think you almost have to be a fool to rent your property these days.
To the average ignorant voter, your grandmother is an evil landlord, and the bum living there is a long-suffering tenant. As long as there are more tenants than landlords, the laws are only going to get worse.
To the average ignorant voter, your grandmother is an evil landlord, and the bum living there is a long-suffering tenant. As long as there are more tenants than landlords, the laws are only going to get worse.
Rothrandir
Flashaholic
i believe it's very difficult to get somone evicted /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
sending somone down in person (somone big?) to talk to the guy might be effective...
sending somone down in person (somone big?) to talk to the guy might be effective...
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: mygrandmas having problems with her renters ha
Be very careful about what you do... Nolo Press has California and New York editions of Landlord law. Don't know about Utah.
In California, it can take 3+ months for a "simple" eviction. And once somebody is in the residence (even if they break in and live there without your knowledge for even a few days/weeks), you basically have to evict them via the courts/law enforcement.
If you go there and make any threats and/or physical contact, you can lose BIG TIME.
I recommend that you call somebody like this ASAP:
Utah Apartment Association
3450 S. Highland Dr., # 102
Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 487-5619; toll-free (888) 244-0401
www.apartmentassn.com
www.apartmentassn.com,
To be honest, it seems like you would want to do something ASAP. But in reality, you should wait until Monday to post a 3 Day pay rent or quit notice because:
1. Usually, only business days count in this type of law (not weekends)
2. You need legal help to do it right. Doing it wrong will be of no help--or possibly place you in a very bad legal position.
Remember, whomever has possession of the house at this time has the full weight of the law protecting them against your grandmother and the police.
There are lawyers that will do the whole process, and the owners associations (and Nolo Press) can help you do it yourself. Which ever you choose, make sure you do it "LEGAL" so that you preserve your grandmother's rights.
I can't vouch for this web site, but it is probably a good start.
If you want a referral for your area, we have used these folks in our area and they would probably give you a good contact:
TRI-COUNTY
Tri-County Apartment Association
792 Meridian Way, Suite A
San Jose, CA 95126-3899
(408) 297-0483
Good Luck!
-Bill
Be very careful about what you do... Nolo Press has California and New York editions of Landlord law. Don't know about Utah.
In California, it can take 3+ months for a "simple" eviction. And once somebody is in the residence (even if they break in and live there without your knowledge for even a few days/weeks), you basically have to evict them via the courts/law enforcement.
If you go there and make any threats and/or physical contact, you can lose BIG TIME.
I recommend that you call somebody like this ASAP:
Utah Apartment Association
3450 S. Highland Dr., # 102
Salt Lake City, UT
(801) 487-5619; toll-free (888) 244-0401
www.apartmentassn.com
www.apartmentassn.com,
To be honest, it seems like you would want to do something ASAP. But in reality, you should wait until Monday to post a 3 Day pay rent or quit notice because:
1. Usually, only business days count in this type of law (not weekends)
2. You need legal help to do it right. Doing it wrong will be of no help--or possibly place you in a very bad legal position.
Remember, whomever has possession of the house at this time has the full weight of the law protecting them against your grandmother and the police.
There are lawyers that will do the whole process, and the owners associations (and Nolo Press) can help you do it yourself. Which ever you choose, make sure you do it "LEGAL" so that you preserve your grandmother's rights.
I can't vouch for this web site, but it is probably a good start.
If you want a referral for your area, we have used these folks in our area and they would probably give you a good contact:
TRI-COUNTY
Tri-County Apartment Association
792 Meridian Way, Suite A
San Jose, CA 95126-3899
(408) 297-0483
Good Luck!
-Bill
Re: mygrandmas having problems with her renters ha
BB-
Good advice. My Dad has been a landlord of a duplex for 35 years now. He ran it as much as a hobby to keep him busy as much as anything else. He never had any problems until about 3 years ago when he had a guy that wouldn't pay. He ended up losing 5 months worth of rent. The renter filed bancrupsy (sp?) and was ordered to pay a certain amount each month. Unfortunately after around four months the court then turned around and said he didn't have to continue paying my Dad. All in all he lost around $3000.
The one lession he learned is that times are a changing. My Dad is always the good guy and wants to always to overlook peoples problems and let people get weeks or even months behind, but these problems never get better only worse. For him however he rather be a good guy and take the loss than be heartless and kick someone out. I understand his position.
They've had that place since i was 15yrs old. I've helped paint and fixing it up countless times. I sometimes think they should dump it as my parents are too old to scrub floors and fix it like they used to. My brothers and I now have busy lives of our own and my Dad can't stand paying someone to do the things he used to do himself for free. It used to be a "normally" reliable source of monthly income for them.
GregR
BB-
Good advice. My Dad has been a landlord of a duplex for 35 years now. He ran it as much as a hobby to keep him busy as much as anything else. He never had any problems until about 3 years ago when he had a guy that wouldn't pay. He ended up losing 5 months worth of rent. The renter filed bancrupsy (sp?) and was ordered to pay a certain amount each month. Unfortunately after around four months the court then turned around and said he didn't have to continue paying my Dad. All in all he lost around $3000.
The one lession he learned is that times are a changing. My Dad is always the good guy and wants to always to overlook peoples problems and let people get weeks or even months behind, but these problems never get better only worse. For him however he rather be a good guy and take the loss than be heartless and kick someone out. I understand his position.
They've had that place since i was 15yrs old. I've helped paint and fixing it up countless times. I sometimes think they should dump it as my parents are too old to scrub floors and fix it like they used to. My brothers and I now have busy lives of our own and my Dad can't stand paying someone to do the things he used to do himself for free. It used to be a "normally" reliable source of monthly income for them.
GregR
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: mygrandmas having problems with her renters ha
Mike,
First, I strongly recommend again that you contact a Landlord Association or a Lawyer that specializes in this area of the law before you do anything. Or even a local property manager/firm. They usually feel protective of the small landlords and you can get quite a bit of free information for your area to help you decide what to do next.
Also, you may wish contact the original renter--Unless you "broke" the contract with him, technically, you may still be able to hold him responsible for the rent/property (especially if he still has personal property and keys for the place).
Otherwise, you can still try to contact him and see if he can help with the new tenant.
In any case, start the legal eviction process Monday--once you know the laws for your area. Doing anything else will only delay the inevitable--and may show the renter your grandmother is "weak" and/or uneducated about the law--giving them very little incentive to leave/pay rent.
And if you are having these problems, make sure that you don't let the person stay even if they try to pay you. You probably will want to give them a 30 day notice to terminate the tenancy in addition to the 3 day notice. I don't know how to do it with an "unknown" renter--but you may also wish to give them an "updated" month to month rental agreement at the same time with a notice that it will become enforced in 30 days. You don't want them to stay, but at least you will have a contract with them that you can enforce later in court (if needed) for the eviction.
Again, check with a lawyer, but at this point, if they begin to pay you any money at all (and you have not given them a legal 30 day notice), you may end up resetting the eviction clock back to zero--something you don't want to do.
Thank you Greg for the nice comment!
We too have been involved in helping to manage a relative's 4-plex, and have rented out a home at times (south of San Francisco). You are correct, you cannot afford to be a Mr. Nice Guy anymore.
You must:
1. Know the laws
2. Use good contracts/forms (applications agreements, credit check agreements, rental agreements, and various termination notices)
3. Set the (legally enforceable) rules, AND ENFORCE THEM 100%.
4. Do not let anyone become delinquent. Many folks now post a 3 or 5 day notice even if the rent is 1 day late.
5. Have a signed contract with any occupant over 18 years of age (including children on their 18th birthday).
6. Include terms for visitors (typically 2 weeks without notice) and don't allow subleases or reassignment of leases.
7. Make sure your property/fire and umbrella (if needed) insurance is for rental property (different than home-owners policy).
8. Make sure your property taxes are paid and up to date (important to watch if the landlord is getting on in years).
I agree, residential rental property is becoming a big pain in the but these days--and in places like San Francisco and such, with rent control, it is probably not worth it anymore.
-Bill
Mike,
First, I strongly recommend again that you contact a Landlord Association or a Lawyer that specializes in this area of the law before you do anything. Or even a local property manager/firm. They usually feel protective of the small landlords and you can get quite a bit of free information for your area to help you decide what to do next.
Also, you may wish contact the original renter--Unless you "broke" the contract with him, technically, you may still be able to hold him responsible for the rent/property (especially if he still has personal property and keys for the place).
Otherwise, you can still try to contact him and see if he can help with the new tenant.
In any case, start the legal eviction process Monday--once you know the laws for your area. Doing anything else will only delay the inevitable--and may show the renter your grandmother is "weak" and/or uneducated about the law--giving them very little incentive to leave/pay rent.
And if you are having these problems, make sure that you don't let the person stay even if they try to pay you. You probably will want to give them a 30 day notice to terminate the tenancy in addition to the 3 day notice. I don't know how to do it with an "unknown" renter--but you may also wish to give them an "updated" month to month rental agreement at the same time with a notice that it will become enforced in 30 days. You don't want them to stay, but at least you will have a contract with them that you can enforce later in court (if needed) for the eviction.
Again, check with a lawyer, but at this point, if they begin to pay you any money at all (and you have not given them a legal 30 day notice), you may end up resetting the eviction clock back to zero--something you don't want to do.
Thank you Greg for the nice comment!
We too have been involved in helping to manage a relative's 4-plex, and have rented out a home at times (south of San Francisco). You are correct, you cannot afford to be a Mr. Nice Guy anymore.
You must:
1. Know the laws
2. Use good contracts/forms (applications agreements, credit check agreements, rental agreements, and various termination notices)
3. Set the (legally enforceable) rules, AND ENFORCE THEM 100%.
4. Do not let anyone become delinquent. Many folks now post a 3 or 5 day notice even if the rent is 1 day late.
5. Have a signed contract with any occupant over 18 years of age (including children on their 18th birthday).
6. Include terms for visitors (typically 2 weeks without notice) and don't allow subleases or reassignment of leases.
7. Make sure your property/fire and umbrella (if needed) insurance is for rental property (different than home-owners policy).
8. Make sure your property taxes are paid and up to date (important to watch if the landlord is getting on in years).
I agree, residential rental property is becoming a big pain in the but these days--and in places like San Francisco and such, with rent control, it is probably not worth it anymore.
-Bill
Re: mygrandmas having problems with her renters ha
Same thing here. We had to sell rental property, because there are just too many laws protecting slime balls.
I wouldn't take your grandmother with you dude. Take a few friends with you instead, and check it out yourself. If you're feeling sneaky, turn on a tape recorder before you talk to the guy, and hide it in your jacket. Take a camera, so you can get evidence. It might come in handy.
These creeps are masters at what they do, and even if they eventually get the boot, you can bet they'll trash your house before they go.
If worse comes to worse, do a background check on him. He might have outstanding warrents. Then you can alert the police where he's living. After that, move his stuff out, and change the locks.
Just make sure he doesn't know where your family lives.
Raven
Same thing here. We had to sell rental property, because there are just too many laws protecting slime balls.
I wouldn't take your grandmother with you dude. Take a few friends with you instead, and check it out yourself. If you're feeling sneaky, turn on a tape recorder before you talk to the guy, and hide it in your jacket. Take a camera, so you can get evidence. It might come in handy.
These creeps are masters at what they do, and even if they eventually get the boot, you can bet they'll trash your house before they go.
If worse comes to worse, do a background check on him. He might have outstanding warrents. Then you can alert the police where he's living. After that, move his stuff out, and change the locks.
Just make sure he doesn't know where your family lives.
Raven
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: mygrandmas having problems with her renters ha
Get the Nolo Press book(s) on landlord law ASAP. They are still a good general guide on landlord/tenant law even if one has not been written specifically for your state. I would suggest this even if you hire somebody to help you as even a professional can screw-up at times or even run up a bill on you. I would strongly suggest that you not try any quick fixes over this weekend before you have the legal information for your particular situation.
I would suggest that you be very careful about recording conversations for use in court... Although Utah appears to be pretty reasonable about the use of recordings (one part must know the recording is taking place), it appears that you could get into trouble if you tape inside somebody's home (or even on private property if not "near" a public point of access--such as a street?):
[ QUOTE ]
Utah Code Ann. § 77-23a-4: An individual legally can record or disclose the contents of any wire, oral or electronic communication to which he is a party, or when at least one participant has consented to the recording, unless the person has a criminal or tortious purpose in making the recording.
Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," Utah Code Ann. § 77-23a-3.
Unlawful interception of communications, including disclosure of the contents of a communication with reason to know of the illegal origin, is a felony — except that when the communication consists of the radio portion of a cellular telephone call, it is a misdemeanor. Civil liability for unlawful interception can include the greater of actual damages, mandatory damages ranging from $50 to $1,000 depending on whether it is a first or subsequent offense, $100 per day of violation or $10,000. Utah Code Ann. § 77-23a-11 (1999).
Installing a hidden camera or audio recorder to tape a person in a "private place" without consent is a misdemeanor. Utah Code Ann. § 76-9-402. A "private place" is a place where one may reasonably expect to be safe from intrusion or surveillance. Utah Code Ann. § 76-9-401.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, I strongly suggest an attorney or some other person with lots of experience in evictions help you--probably even with the initial contact.
If you don't know what you are doing, you will probably screw it up if the renter knows what they are doing (and if he is a bad renter, he may have very well already gone through an eviction before).
I am not a lawyer--but it appears that the phrase "tortious purpose" may mean that you cannot record if you intend to do something illegal with the recording (such as blackmail?). Again, only your lawyer would know for sure.
Also, please notice that I am looking up every suggestion being made by myself or others. As a landlord you are running a business and you must know the law to protect yourself. Doing something like turning off the power sounds nice and simple, but, even if you are morally correct, you are still legally wrong and subject to fines, damages and/or other penalties. I have done this before (turning off power because of somebody who moved in when they were supposed to be just storing their belongings) and it I was very lucky that they did nothing to me (based on what I had read later). But I will not make that mistake again (of being a Mr. Nice Guy or turning off the power to a residence).
Sorry if it looks like I am trying to scare you into getting professional help/information--but I am. Most immediate solutions are prohibited. Even if you can get him removed based on a warrant--he still is in possession of the property and you will have to follow rules (typically 24 hour notice before you enter the property--unless there is an urgent need such as pets or leaky pipes, etc., proper legal notices, care and storage of personal property, etc.) and be careful, because he may have friends/girl friend still living there--As they will probably also be considered residents of the rental property too (unless you can prove they have only been there a few days and you can prove the "renter" did not sublease to them--which could be hard to document--especially if the "renter" does not want to help you).
Other than "legally" posting of the first 3/5 day quit or pay rent notice and a 30 day notice of termination of tenancy (and supplying an "updated rental terms and conditions agreement", I personally, would not start the eviction process unless I had a Landlord Law book in my hand and had the time to follow it to the letter. And plan on this being a 3 month process of torture for you and your Grandmother if they choose to let the process run its course. She probably will not get any money for damages/legal costs because A. there is no written rental agreement and B. they probably don't have any money (otherwise, they would be paying rent).
Don't turn this into something personal--as this would tend to increase the risk of damage to the home and/or other problems too.
My Best Wishes and Prayers for your Grandmother,
-Bill
PS: It sounds ugly, but if they have already trashed the place (holes in exterior walls, ceilings, and/or failing stove, plumbing, electricity, fire hazards, sewage smells, etc., you might get the city/county to condemn the place--and forcing them to move out without an eviction and before they have time to do more damage... Although, this would probably be a last resort as you would now have the city involved in the cleanup/permits and the tenant can sue you for not maintaining the dwelling (ain't being a landlord fun? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).
Keep a log of all attempts at contact (just a single small bound notebook with date/time/notes made at the time of each event can be helpful in your defense--if ever needed) for your defense. -BB
Get the Nolo Press book(s) on landlord law ASAP. They are still a good general guide on landlord/tenant law even if one has not been written specifically for your state. I would suggest this even if you hire somebody to help you as even a professional can screw-up at times or even run up a bill on you. I would strongly suggest that you not try any quick fixes over this weekend before you have the legal information for your particular situation.
I would suggest that you be very careful about recording conversations for use in court... Although Utah appears to be pretty reasonable about the use of recordings (one part must know the recording is taking place), it appears that you could get into trouble if you tape inside somebody's home (or even on private property if not "near" a public point of access--such as a street?):
[ QUOTE ]
Utah Code Ann. § 77-23a-4: An individual legally can record or disclose the contents of any wire, oral or electronic communication to which he is a party, or when at least one participant has consented to the recording, unless the person has a criminal or tortious purpose in making the recording.
Under the statute, consent is not required for the taping of a non-electronic communication uttered by a person who does not have a reasonable expectation of privacy in that communication. See definition of "oral communication," Utah Code Ann. § 77-23a-3.
Unlawful interception of communications, including disclosure of the contents of a communication with reason to know of the illegal origin, is a felony — except that when the communication consists of the radio portion of a cellular telephone call, it is a misdemeanor. Civil liability for unlawful interception can include the greater of actual damages, mandatory damages ranging from $50 to $1,000 depending on whether it is a first or subsequent offense, $100 per day of violation or $10,000. Utah Code Ann. § 77-23a-11 (1999).
Installing a hidden camera or audio recorder to tape a person in a "private place" without consent is a misdemeanor. Utah Code Ann. § 76-9-402. A "private place" is a place where one may reasonably expect to be safe from intrusion or surveillance. Utah Code Ann. § 76-9-401.
[/ QUOTE ]
Again, I strongly suggest an attorney or some other person with lots of experience in evictions help you--probably even with the initial contact.
If you don't know what you are doing, you will probably screw it up if the renter knows what they are doing (and if he is a bad renter, he may have very well already gone through an eviction before).
I am not a lawyer--but it appears that the phrase "tortious purpose" may mean that you cannot record if you intend to do something illegal with the recording (such as blackmail?). Again, only your lawyer would know for sure.
Also, please notice that I am looking up every suggestion being made by myself or others. As a landlord you are running a business and you must know the law to protect yourself. Doing something like turning off the power sounds nice and simple, but, even if you are morally correct, you are still legally wrong and subject to fines, damages and/or other penalties. I have done this before (turning off power because of somebody who moved in when they were supposed to be just storing their belongings) and it I was very lucky that they did nothing to me (based on what I had read later). But I will not make that mistake again (of being a Mr. Nice Guy or turning off the power to a residence).
Sorry if it looks like I am trying to scare you into getting professional help/information--but I am. Most immediate solutions are prohibited. Even if you can get him removed based on a warrant--he still is in possession of the property and you will have to follow rules (typically 24 hour notice before you enter the property--unless there is an urgent need such as pets or leaky pipes, etc., proper legal notices, care and storage of personal property, etc.) and be careful, because he may have friends/girl friend still living there--As they will probably also be considered residents of the rental property too (unless you can prove they have only been there a few days and you can prove the "renter" did not sublease to them--which could be hard to document--especially if the "renter" does not want to help you).
Other than "legally" posting of the first 3/5 day quit or pay rent notice and a 30 day notice of termination of tenancy (and supplying an "updated rental terms and conditions agreement", I personally, would not start the eviction process unless I had a Landlord Law book in my hand and had the time to follow it to the letter. And plan on this being a 3 month process of torture for you and your Grandmother if they choose to let the process run its course. She probably will not get any money for damages/legal costs because A. there is no written rental agreement and B. they probably don't have any money (otherwise, they would be paying rent).
Don't turn this into something personal--as this would tend to increase the risk of damage to the home and/or other problems too.
My Best Wishes and Prayers for your Grandmother,
-Bill
PS: It sounds ugly, but if they have already trashed the place (holes in exterior walls, ceilings, and/or failing stove, plumbing, electricity, fire hazards, sewage smells, etc., you might get the city/county to condemn the place--and forcing them to move out without an eviction and before they have time to do more damage... Although, this would probably be a last resort as you would now have the city involved in the cleanup/permits and the tenant can sue you for not maintaining the dwelling (ain't being a landlord fun? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ).
Keep a log of all attempts at contact (just a single small bound notebook with date/time/notes made at the time of each event can be helpful in your defense--if ever needed) for your defense. -BB
BB
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: mygrandmas having problems with her renters ha
One other basic suggestion is your your Grandmother's (or her representatives) right to enter the property with at least 24 notice (written notice posted on door, mail, phone notification, etc.) for inspection.
You can do this, supply a rental agreement, talk about back rent, get phone numbers, etc. at this time.
If they refuse "reasonable" access to the property, that is also terms for terminating a lease... But the fact that they have not already paid the rent when due is usually terms enough.
And lack of any long term lease agreement usually will allow you to post an enforceable 30 day termination notice.
-Bill
One other basic suggestion is your your Grandmother's (or her representatives) right to enter the property with at least 24 notice (written notice posted on door, mail, phone notification, etc.) for inspection.
You can do this, supply a rental agreement, talk about back rent, get phone numbers, etc. at this time.
If they refuse "reasonable" access to the property, that is also terms for terminating a lease... But the fact that they have not already paid the rent when due is usually terms enough.
And lack of any long term lease agreement usually will allow you to post an enforceable 30 day termination notice.
-Bill
