Poll: Would this bother you?

PT-Impact XL

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
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LitFuse

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These are a couple of pictures of two Arc LSH-Ss that I just got during the "Foot in the Door" special. These are "First quality" units, not seconds. Notice the dark lines on these. This is something I haven't seen before in many previous purchases from Arc.

Peter told me that these lines are caused by density variations in the raw tube stock. The area where the lines form are less dense, and therefore "suck up" more HA during the plating process.

I am fully aware of Arcs new policy concerning cosmetic issues, but I am also curious about the opinions of the members here. If you bought a First quality Arc LS, and it had these blemishes, would it bother you? Do you think that this is enough of a reason to make these units 2nds?

My personal opinion is that I am still satisfied with the value of what I received for my money. Of course, I would prefer to not have these marks on my lights.

Because I've never seen this issue until lately, part of me wonders if this (large?) batch of striped Arcs might somehow be (at least partially) responsible for the new cosmetic policy? I have had LS "seconds" in the past that were certainly cosmetically superior to these recently purchased "firsts".

Please vote in the poll, and post any comments you consider relevant to this discussion. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

P3040013.jpg


P3040012.jpg


P3040011.jpg



Peter
 

BlindedByTheLite

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altho those are the heaviest stripes i've seen on an Arc LS, it wouldn't bother me @ all.

cosmetic blemishes don't bother me tho.. i'm only concerned with blemishes that expose the metal under the HA.

of course, i buy Arc produts for performance and not decoration.

also, i don't think a blemish should ever qualify a light as a 2nd. in my opinion, cosmetic issues shouldn't be of any concern @ all.. that's like buying a shell in-lay knife and complaining there isn't enough pink swirls on it.

Edit:
i believe Arc products should be judged in the field, and not on the nicnac shelf. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif
 

357

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usa
That would bother me. You pay a premium price for Arcs as it is, and for the price it is expected that the flashlight should be nearly perfect. A line THAT noticable would bug the daylights out of me.

And yes, I think what you have should be classified as a second.

In fact, I could live with a second that only had that flaw. But, IMO its inexcusable to sell to customers the lights you have as a first.
 

louie

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It would bother me on a first. My LSH-P was a second and I find the lines acceptable as such. BTW, my LSH-P has 3 such lines down the sides. My LSL-S first has no lines, nor does the AA tail. Neither do my 2 Surefires.
 

Patrick Hayes

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Completly unaceptable. My $6 dollar Dorcy AAA has perfect anodizing. Those lights should be seconds. I currently own 4 Arcs and have had several more that are no longer with me. These include the LSHP, LSL, AA, AAA and LS3. I have always been very happy with my lights. However in light of the aperance of the above lights and Peter's new policies. I think I will buy all my future Arc product on BST where I can see photos of the light I'm getting.
 

BlindedByTheLite

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on a sidenote, Pete. i think you're a terrible father to your Arc LSH's. you should luv your children no matter what defect they were born with.

i'm going to have to call a higher power and have them removed and sent to me, ASAP.
 

Samoan

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Maybe I'm just being weird. While the striping might bug me if I paid full price for a first I still wouldn't consider it a second. It fits, for me, somewhere in the middle, i.e., a discounted sale.

-F /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
 

LitFuse

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I guess I'm somewhere in the middle of the opinions expressed so far.

Obviously, a dark line has no bearing on the lights utility. Score one for Ryan's POV.

On the other hand, the Arc LS is what I consider a "premium" product. It really shouldn't suffer this type of issue. If you pay top dollar, you should get top quality. This blemish is a quality control issue when you get right down to it. Test anodizing a small section of the stock could eliminate this problem quite easily. The fact that Arc uses multiple contractors would seem to exacerbate these QC issues. Score one for 357's POV.

Upon opening these two LSs I was somewhat disappointed with the lines, but I would have been even more disturbed if I had paid "full tilt" for them. As it is, my disappointed is tempered by the fact that they were bought at a substantially discounted price.

BTW, I am unable to see the poll results, the window is too small. Am I the only one?

Peter
 

MenaceSQL

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Peter, I have the same problem with viewing the poll results. What I do is right click on the mouse, select all, copy, then paste it on an empty window as in an email body then I'll see the results.
 

Owen

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Feb 14, 2002
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AL
Currently:
Would a striped First quality arc bother you?
Users may choose only one (27 total votes)
Yes 18 66%
No 9 33%
Is this blemish enough to classify these lights as seconds?
Users may choose only one (26 total votes)
Yes 18 69%
No 8 30%

Personally the stripe doesn't bother me.
I do think it should make the light a second, though.
If I paid $150 for a LSH-P 1st, it would be perfect in every sense(period), or it would go back.
 

LitFuse

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Thanks guys, I just voted, and now I can see the results. Strange. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif


Peter

EDIT: May be a "bug". There was an option while posting the poll where you would have to vote in order to see the results, but I didn't select that option. Seems like it might default to it regardless though.
 

brightnorm

Flashaholic
Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
7,160
HAIII varies, we all know that and make allowances for it. However, the photos illustrate something quite different from conventional variations. These are clearly delineated, unmistakable dark longitudinal lines that IMO have no place on a premium product. I would probably accept them on a "second".

Brightnorm
 

TrevorNasko

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Atlanta, GA>> The Flashlight that was broken shall
I do tend to have a bias when it comes to Arc, always have. I love the company and what it stands for. I have always though that if I got a "Perfect" Arc LS model I would feel deprived. To me, as long as the blemish is only with the anodize color variation and the body is not scratched or scuffed in any way - I am satisfied. These little things make the light unique and give it identity. I will not accept peagreen beams ,subpar output , or failure to function as intended. These are the things that matter anyway.

It's a tool , not adornment. While I think Arcs are a bargain at twice the price I understand not all feel this way. You pay more than other lights on the market not because it is a work of absolute cosmetic perfection but because the light you get is one of the most advanced, reliable, useful, and effective tools you can own today. You pay the premium for the peace of mind that it will get the job done no matter what the situation. At least that is the observation of this consumer. Your needs may and most likely do vary from mine.
 

Gransee

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If they had been plated with cheaper type II anodize like what is used on a mag the lines wouldn't have shown through. This is just another example of the risks in using clear HA. This is the first time we have seen this type of defect otherwise we would have a procedure for it. If you look at the part from the end, the 3 density bands are evenly spaced in a triangle and they go all the way to the core of the part. Our theory is that this is a random remenant of the extrusion process used to form the rods at Kaiser.

The problem was not detected until after the plating process. But at that point we had to buy the parts because the plater did not screw it up and the machine shop was buying the stock we instructed them to use. This affects all new LSH models and the first/second run of Arc4 parts. The darkness of the bands vary from unit to unit.

We recently identified this issue as a density variation. At the SS, the Surefire head machinist came by our booth. I showed him the bands and asked him (I was asking anyone I thought would know something) if he had ever seen something like that or knew what it was. He said he did not know. We talked to our platers, machine shops and metal supplier engineers at Kaiser and they all have not seen anything like this ever. Of course, I have to be the one to discover it. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Naturally, now we cut the ends off of every bar and plate them. This adds another week of delay to our production cycle which costs me dearly.

The good news is that it is limited to cosmetics. The HA is not any thinner than it should be and the metal is as strong as it is supposed to be. If this had been a utility issue, I would have stopped selling the product, pulled the stock and liquidated the parts like I am doing with the AAA/AA.

Peter
 

paulr

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Mar 29, 2003
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10,832
Sounds like a good reason to use black HA instead of clear. The light would look better and radiate heat better that way too. What happened to using black?
 

SDS

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Oakland, CA
There are 1000's of ARC LS's manufactured and sold in the past that don't have "racing stripes". I'm sure cosmetic variations were culled out by ARC in the past to be sold as seconds or simply scrapped. As ARC's guarantee has been clarified recently to exclude cosmetic flaws, I think we are going to see more cosmetic variants in the future.

We have gotten used to the luxeon lottery, now we have to get used to a HA III lottery.

ARC has hand picked LED's for output/color and offered the premium ones at a higher price. I doubt if Peter would offer "premium finished" lights because it doesn't enhance their usefulness as tools.

Steve
 

cosco

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I voted Yes and Yes. I think it should be definitely marked as second. I can imagine Peter is not happy with that stripes and with the case of having too much "seconds" too. But I would expect first quality product even in cosmetic way for top price.

BTW Until now I thought the flashlight bodies are made from solid bar of aluminium (like Firefly), not from tube.
 

TrevorNasko

Flashlight Enthusiast
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Jul 23, 2001
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Atlanta, GA>> The Flashlight that was broken shall
SDS - I assure you that Arc is not lying to you.

Besides- I have owned about 10 arc ls seconds since the model was released - and the only time I have EVER seen that "racing stripe" is recently.


Hmmmmmm- I was pretty sure they came from a solid bar too - what makes you think the contrary?
 
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