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Thread: HDS Systems EDC #22

  1. #2191

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    I always liked the appearance of the HDS host. They remind me of that old ARC with the funny boot, but neater. I do not mind a max brightness of 225Lm on the LED option I'd get (SS40 High CRI 4000įK 225 lumens). Two details bother me about HDS that are difficult for me to overcome.
    1) no 18350 battery tube
    2) crenellations only, no smooth bezels.

    For the price of a supposedly custom light, I should be able to get a smooth bezel. Crenellations are vain, useless, ugly, and eat pockets. It seems to be the one superfluous and thoughtless detail all HDS lights have, no exceptions.

    I also have a suspicion that I might think the lowest light level is not low enough. Anyone know the lumen value of it?

    That's my beef. But I like about everything else about HDS. But just how difficult would it be for HDS to accommodate me and any that agree with me? Who doesn't want 18350 runtime? Who wouldn't consider a smooth bezel? Who would hate a few sublumen firefly modes? Are you with me? Join me in protest! We can change the world! Well, maybe not worth the protest, but sometimes makers listen and adapt.

    What I don't understand is the difference between a tactical and a rotary, which I think I would choose from to have HDS customize. Could someone please explain the difference to me? TIA

    I also don't understand the difference between a bicycle, executive and LE, but I don't really care because I'm not interested in them. I do think I understand the difference between them and the rotary and executive, which seems pretty obvious... the rotary function.

  2. #2192
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    For the price of a supposedly custom light, I should be able to get a smooth bezel. Crenellations are vain, useless, ugly, and eat pockets. It seems to be the one superfluous and thoughtless detail all HDS lights have, no exceptions.

    What I don't understand is the difference between a tactical and a rotary, which I think I would choose from to have HDS customize. Could someone please explain the difference to me? TIA

    I also don't understand the difference between a bicycle, executive and LE, but I don't really care because I'm not interested in them. I do think I understand the difference between them and the rotary and executive, which seems pretty obvious... the rotary function.
    I used to think the same about crenellations - until i gor my first HDS. The only reason I find them useful is for when I place the light bezel down, I can see if it's on and where it is in the dark if I do leave it on. I've been carrying one in my jeans or snugs pocket for a couple of years now, and the smotth crenellations have not done any damage.

    Both the Rotary and Tactical have the same knob on the back, just the programming is different. With the Rotary the whole dial is used to control the brightness ramp. With the Tactical half the dial controls the ramp, and the other two quarters can be programmed to different fixed levels or flashy modes. You'd have to send the light back to Henry to turn a Rotary into a Tactical and vice versa.

    All the non rotary or Clicky models are exactly the same, apart from the way they are programmed direct from HDS, you can reprogram them exactly how you wish. No need to send them back to Henry.

    I hope that helps, I havem't had my Cornflaes yet.
    P
    "O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" He chortled in his joy.

  3. #2193

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    I also have a suspicion that I might think the lowest light level is not low enough. Anyone know the lumen value of it?
    The lowest lumen level oh the HDS rotary is .02 lumen.
    Her is a link to each lumen level

    https://www.hdssystems.com/Content/LightFaq/

  4. #2194
    Flashaholic neco's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    I like the crenellations and donít think they look ugly. I would be fine with smooth bezel as well but either way I donít think it would affect the functionality of the light.

    Lowest lumen output is low enough for me, not sure that I personally would have a use for an even lower lower than that. In use I am always using it above that level and the low level on the HDS is way below any of the low levels from the other lights I own.

    18350 battery tube would be nice, I would like that if there was the option. But CR123 batteries are easy to buy and very common so no complaints otherwise.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

  5. #2195
    Flashaholic* lion504's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    Who doesn't want 18350 runtime? Who wouldn't consider a smooth bezel? Who would hate a few sublumen firefly modes?
    I don't want a smooth bezel. But @TheJlew85 does. Join the movement here.

    I'm very satisfied with the logarithmic spacing of the 24 levels. Believe that jon_sliders's opinion is that there are too many sublumen modes! Tough choices.

    +1 on the 18350.
    Last edited by lion504; 09-17-2020 at 03:24 AM.
    ďExpertsĒ are wrong about half the time. And there are two reasons for the crenelations... [My_Lights]


  6. #2196
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    An 18500 body could be a big jump in run time, but also host 16340, cr123, 14500...

  7. #2197

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Thank you peter yetman, nice explanation, easy to understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    I used to think the same about crenellations - until i gor my first HDS. The only reason I find them useful is for when I place the light bezel down, I can see if it's on and where it is in the dark if I do leave it on.
    You're putting it down wrong. LOL. I can understand bezel down with incan, only one level, sort of gives another light level. But bezel down with a light that has very low modes has less of a point.

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    I've been carrying one in my jeans or snugs pocket for a couple of years now, and the smotth crenellations have not done any damage.
    Good to know, yes, very helpful


    Quote Originally Posted by neco View Post
    I like the crenellations and donít think they look ugly. I would be fine with smooth bezel as well but either way I donít think it would affect the functionality of the light.
    Thanks for the input, neco. My rebut is that it is an aesthetic choice, but also that I don't want a useless feature. It's like saying, I don't use it, but I don't mind the can opener function, and it's there if need it. Whatever it is crenellations are supposed to do, which I always thought was a knife of sorts, (bykfixer has explained that originally they were for a martial art called... escapes me, but the point is that it is a handheld weapon), something else does it far better. Namely, a knife. Don't want a flashlight on my knife, either.

    Smooth bezel proof of concept is profoundly attractive!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJlew85 View Post

    Sos24, appreciated! 0.02Lm is low enough!

    I like to do this.

    Brightness levels:



    Runtime:



    Thanks for the link, lion504.

    Quote Originally Posted by lion504 View Post
    Believe that jon_sliders's opinion is that there are too many sublumen modes!
    We had a chat last night. He prefers smooth ramping to little jumps. Honestly, I would similarly prefer a dimmer switch somehow stuffed in an incan E z52. Works with the dining room chandelier, no reason it can't work for a flashlight. But the majority rigidly prefer only running lamps at their single spec.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strintguy View Post
    An 18500 body could be a big jump in run time, but also host 16340, cr123, 14500...
    Good points, Strintguy. Beyond 18350, I too would like to see 18500 and 14500.

    So I guess we are stuck with CR123A for the best runtime in the most compact form. I don't mind running CR123A, intrinsically, but running them is outrageously more expensive than running secondary Li-ion, and the lumens are burdened with guilt.


    I'd just like to wrap up my post with what I really appreciate about HDS:
    1) constant current
    2) current regulation
    3) HiCRI options
    4) one hand operation
    5) tail standing or tactical button options
    6) sleek and simple design to the host shape, grippy knurling, no extraneous decoration (except crenellations)

    Edit: one thing I haven't seen is any images of the light from front on. I'd like to see the reflector and LED placement.

    Edit2: just finished searching Google Images. No HDS front pics. Another observation: HDS clips are outrageously expensive. There is a $12 option. They should all be between $12 - $25. $41 is nuts for what you get, unless that is sterling silver. $57 is crazy. No deep carry option. For as popular a light as the HDS EDC is (btw, also hate the model name "EDC." That trendy name is spent. Call it "Pegasus," or better, "Apollo." Something more original that is inspirational), it is surprising how few aftermarket accessories there are. I want a stainless removable bezel down deep carry pocket clip. Not too much to ask. Dedicated mic stand mount sleeve. Standard tripod mount sleeve. Delrin tail stand sleeve for the raised button option. Lanyard with "HDS Rotary" stitched in. Borosilicate glass Blue, Green, Selective Yellow, Amber, Red, Deep Red, IR & diffuser filter sets (filtered color is inefficient, but better than nothing) that snap inside the bezel, light sealed, extremely close to but not quite against the lens that won't pop out until you want them to.

    Edit3: Found one



    I would not mind a metal ring around the LED to hide the driver, like in the newer generation Maratacs.
    Last edited by chillinn; 09-17-2020 at 06:52 AM.

  8. #2198

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    The crenelations are there to see if the light is on when bezel down on a table, and for use with the locater beacon in the same way. Easy to find it on the nightstand. It is why they are smooth crenelations. Anyone using an HDS as a weapon is either an complete idiot or out of other options.

    HDS was actually using the term EDC long before it was hip. It is like people calling any light with a dial for adjustment a "Rotary".

    Something to read:
    https://www.hdssystems.com/Content/Pioneer/

    18350 has been brought up a lot. Don't except it in the next several years.

    HDS is NOT a custom light. It is more a small production run light with options.

    And as far as protesting goes, you would not like to hear my views of how they should be gunned down and their families charged for the bullets.
    Last edited by Hogokansatsukan; 09-17-2020 at 07:28 AM.
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  9. #2199
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    The HDS bezel is a pretty common "standard" size, so it has been relatively easy to find or make filters for it.

    The older SureFire filter sets worked nicely, Olight (IIRC) filters also could be adjusted to fit, even water bottle caps make a nice diffuser.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  10. #2200
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    The crenellations are not sharp at all. Itís not like the Surefire Porcupines or something. Donít worry about them eating pockets - it wonít happen.

  11. #2201
    Flashaholic* lion504's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    Anyone using an HDS as a weapon is either an complete idiot ...
    .... just me?
    ďExpertsĒ are wrong about half the time. And there are two reasons for the crenelations... [My_Lights]


  12. #2202
    Slumber Pass's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Crenellations sounds too aggressive. I prefer Scalloped.

  13. #2203

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Even. Level. Flush. Untroubled. No matter how you say it, "smooth" just sounds so much cooler.

  14. #2204
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    I think there were some aftermarket smoothie bezels made in the past werenít there? I canít recall if they were Legacy or Acme though. I should do some research. If theyíre acme you could just hunt for one of those.

    In any case, thatís a pretty small aesthetic niggle to deal with for an otherwise outstanding light.

  15. #2205
    Flashaholic* Tejasandre's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Sandpaper.

  16. #2206

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by nbp View Post
    In any case, thatís a pretty small aesthetic niggle to deal with for an otherwise outstanding light.
    For a $300+ flashlight, I don't think it is nitpicky. There's no need to compromise. There's an interest thread,, apparently there is someone willing to make them if enough express interest. But maybe I've beat it into the ground and should. shut. up.

    Let me just say this... if crenellations, or scallops, were a premium feature that cost $50 on top of the price... no one would pay to opt to have them, or very few. If the opposite were true, smooth bezel an extra $50... HDS would clean up with those orders.

    What it comes down to is personal bias. Love the light, you'll be willing to accept almost anything, such as a rainbow stamped into the bezel. I admit I am biased towards smooth bezels, but will not admit I am biased against crenellations. My dislike of crenellations is supported and perfectly rational, if a bit purist: don't try to do everything or even two things; do one thing, do it well. It takes a little more strict objectivity to see crens are vanity. Who's vanity is another question, because it is not necessarily the consumer's vanity, especially because none of them have any choice.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tejasandre View Post
    Sandpaper.
    I read about a guy, maybe here, that would smooth crenellated Elite bezels with a shop grinder. Anyway, you reminded me of some lyrics...

    ...Blues at sunrise what a way to start the day
    Juannes so rough that they're like sandpaper
    To smoove out the edges as I
    Flow like water from sink, drain, river to sea
    I got the recipe, ain't gonna tell ya no more
    I got the specialty, ain't gonna tellin' no one
    I got the recipe, ain't gonna tell ya no more
    I've gots to keep movin'
    I've gots to keep movin'

    -Recipe, G. Love & Special Sauce, 1993
    Last edited by chillinn; 09-17-2020 at 09:44 PM.

  17. #2207
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Itís not a compromise to me, I like it. Look, every product has a style and features designed by someone, and they do what they think is best. You either buy it and deal with it, you modify it, or you buy something else. HDS does a lot to accomodate the input of customers but itís not design by committee here. So, buy it and deal with it, or mod it, or buy something else.

  18. #2208
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    I have both versions (stock & modded) and even leaving functional considerations aside, think that it adds some visual interest to what is otherwise a pretty spare design aesthetic.



    (And sorry for the poor quality old photo, lol)
    ... is the archimedes peak

  19. #2209

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    archimedes, those lights look so neat!

  20. #2210
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    archimedes, those lights look so neat!
    Thank you, I continue to find them very useful.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  21. #2211

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    This should help.
    Still not used to those video sunglasses.







    HDS actually did produce a small number of non-crenelated bezels about a decade ago (pre-Acme thread). They were not popular at all. According to Henry, it took about a year to sell them all and there were only about 10 produced.
    Last edited by Hogokansatsukan; 09-18-2020 at 01:30 PM.
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  22. #2212
    *Flashaholic* kaichu dento's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    Crenellations are vain, useless, ugly, and eat pockets. It seems to be the one superfluous and thoughtless detail all HDS lights have, no exceptions.

    I also have a suspicion that I might think the lowest light level is not low enough.

    Who doesn't want 18350 runtime?
    Worrying about the appearance of the crenelations and ugliness comes far closer to vanity than the functionality of them, and if you think they eat pockets, you've never picked one up. Better to judge with your imagination than personal examination? You've never met Henry, never talked to him about how he made every single decision about his lights based on function ONLY, and yet you stand in judgement, claiming thoughtlessness. Hysterical.

    Your suspicion about the lowest level not being low enough is wrong; it absolutely is low enough to the point that I no longer use the lowest setting, which I had often used on the previous models.

    I think all of us, including Henry, want the 18350 runtime, but it got shelved for the time being. I hope it eventually happens, but for now I'm glad to have the Rotary as it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    ...if crenellations, or scallops, were a premium feature that cost $50 on top of the price... no one would pay to opt to have them, or very few. If the opposite were true, smooth bezel an extra $50... HDS would clean up with those orders.
    I would possibly pay for the crenelations, if that's what it took, and one of my main complaints the past few years is the hangup over the prettiness of lights as an obsession. The crenelations allow some obvious light bleed to show if the light is set face down and can actually be used as a night light finder. Yes, I've done this. I agree with you that for those who are obsessed with looks over function, that it would be nice if a ground down bezel could be offered at extra charge, but with that in mind, if I really wanted it, I'd just grind it down myself.
    Marduke - Solitaire...I've seen matches which are brighter AND have a longer runtime. 光陰矢の如し

  23. #2213
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Ummm. These scallops were not created as a weapon so this straw man argument lacks basis in fact.

    To say they are useless and serve no function is to speak for all product users, which no person can do, so just donít.

    And it is also equally narcissistic to think that companies should change their products to suit one personís desires.

    Similarly, I would tread lightly when telling other members they need professional help. That isnít very friendly.

  24. #2214
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    The maker and staff of HDS have very clearly stated above the purpose of the scalloped bezel, which is to prevent inadvertent bezel-down operation unawares.

    No further discussion of inappropriate use or "weapons"

    Both HDS staff, and another CPF mod, have already addressed your issue with this here @chillinn

    Thank you for moving along from this particular point of contention.
    Last edited by archimedes; 09-19-2020 at 11:59 AM.
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  25. #2215
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    More intolerance of dissent. Everyone always agreeing is a real problem. Nothing gets better if everyone always agrees.

    And you specifically told me you did not moderate this thread.
    You are incorrect, and further discussion of this in the open forum is unproductive.

    The moderators and administrators of CPF are around in order to keep order. Do not whine or complain about the rules and do not abuse the moderators or administrators for enforcing the rules. It is very disruptive to the board when gripes take over a thread. Take them off the board in either private messages or email. The alternative is to go and start your own forum and set your own rules.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  26. #2216
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    I'm not sure what you are referring to with my being incorrect, but what is unproductive, in fact, is intolerance of anything but linear agreement. Dissent is what is productive, i.e. rational argument devoid of ad hominem fallacy.

    I am sorry some flashlight users have a problem with placing their flashlight face down while it is on and forgetting about it. HOORAY for HDS solving that handicap with scallops.

    FWIW IMO HDS nailed every other feature, and I'm not sure any other maker has to the extent HDS has. I have one criticism, ONE. And I believe it will be solved by an aftermarket bezel. And if this admission is not good enough for the contributors of the thread, there is no pleasing some people.
    Maybe Hogo can enlighten us as to the likely outcome while caving, if "some flashlight users have a problem with placing their flashlight face down while it is on and forgetting about it" ?

    Meanwhile @chillinn perhaps you could consider stopping while you are ahead ?
    ... is the archimedes peak

  27. #2217

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    You are incorrect!
    The crenelations on the HDS are for letting out light when the flashlight is set bezel down.
    That is what they were designed to do on the HDS. Period.

    I suggest you figure out who is here, in this section of CPF, and do it quickly. You obviously don't own an HDS, and that is fine. I've always said the biggest critics of the light are those who don't own one. Tread lightly with the other members here who have far more experience and knowledge than yourself.

    Your first post in this section was arrogant and ignorant. Not a good combination. You obviously don't know how to research, or you would have done some already. I HIGHLY suggest you do some research and some reading BEFORE you post again and figure out just WHO in this thread you are addressing. The members you are insulting have been here long before you and are respected.

    You have been warned.
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  28. #2218
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    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    ....[bad form removed]
    Which form of rhetoric was this ?
    ... is the archimedes peak

  29. #2219

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    in the meantime, here is my pet Fluffy playing with one of my lights.


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  30. #2220

    Default Re: HDS Systems EDC #22

    Quote Originally Posted by chillinn View Post
    Ad hominem argument ignored.
    Who am I?
    Answer the question.
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