HDS Systems - Golden Dragon LED emitter....

RCS1300 · Mar 14, 2019

The name "Golden Dragon" sounds interesting. Today, I purchased a Titanium RaClicky and plan to have HDS upgrade it. Want to tap the experts here on the Golden Dragon LED emitter which is currently in the light calibrated at 170 Lumens.

In my thread searches the best information I could find on this emitter is that it really "punches" out of the light. Is there anything else remarkable about this LED emitter that I should know about. Certainly do not want to mess with it if the emitter is spectacular relative to what is available today -- ten years later.

Thoughts/experiences?

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thermal guy · Mar 14, 2019

They do have a ton of throw. 170 was super rare. Nice catch.

slumber · Mar 14, 2019

The Golden Dragon does have decent throw. I'm not sure if it will out throw the current XP-G2 or XP-G3, but at the time it was used, it was best you could get in an HDS Light. The 170's were more common, but there were a few 200's that I believe were sold through a lottery drawing of some sort.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up some spare Legacy parts (reflector, Ti bezel) from Unique Titanium while they're still available. It might be worth asking Henry how well the emitter you want to upgrade too will project using the older style reflector. I know the first crop of XP-G's had a slight dark ring in the spill and later the first Nichia's also had a similar artifact before the reflectors were tweaked. Good catch either way! Congrats!

RCS1300 · Mar 14, 2019

Slumber Pass said:
The Golden Dragon does have decent throw. I'm not sure if it will out throw the current XP-G2 or XP-G3, but at the time it was used, it was best you could get in an HDS Light. The 170's were more common, but there were a few 200's that I believe were sold through a lottery drawing of some sort.
It wouldn't be a bad idea to pick up some spare Legacy parts (reflector, Ti bezel) from Unique Titanium while they're still available. It might be worth asking Henry how well the emitter you want to upgrade too will project using the older style reflector. I know the first crop of XP-G's had a slight dark ring in the spill and later the first Nichia's also had a similar artifact before the reflectors were tweaked. Good catch either way! Congrats!

Thanks for the insights. Been in touch with Henry several times during the purchase of the Titanium RaClicky - mostly due to the large expense of the purchase and the upgrade. Three Titanium RaClickys were calibrated to 200 lumens and the rest were calibrated to 170.

Good thought on the reflector. I did purchase two spares today from UniqueTitanium. Did not ask Henry about the new LED emitters and the Legacy reflector. In reading through the Legacy information a couple of changes came to mind - the new LED and the old reflector AND the new power supply and the old reflector. Henry is a thoughtful person and I am sure he has thought about these differences when making the Upgrade Option available.

I did not purchase an extra Legacy Titanium Bezel mostly because the original number has meaning. Apparently, the higher the number the more the team learned about assembling them. I purchased #10088.

thermal guy · Mar 14, 2019

My bad ya it was the 200 that were rare.

wacbzz · Mar 14, 2019

RCS1300 said:
In my thread searches the best information I could find on this emitter is that it really "punches" out of the light. Is there anything else remarkable about this LED emitter that I should know about. Certainly do not want to mess with it if the emitter is spectacular relative to what is available today -- ten years later.

I traded for a clicky with a 140 (blue sticker) GD. This emitter throws better than any of the other HDS lights I ever owned. Because of this, I would be hard pressed to upgrade to any of the now available emitters. The "emission area" of the GD is much smaller than any of the now available emitters as well.

What would interest me much more would be whether Henry could up the lumen output of that GD. Since it's known that there were 140, 170, and 200 lumen versions of this light, is it possible to re-calibrate the existing GD to the higher output?

RCS1300 · Mar 14, 2019

wacbzz said:
What would interest me much more would be whether Henry could up the lumen output of that GD. Since it's known that there were 140, 170, and 200 lumen versions of this light, is it possible to re-calibrate the existing GD to the higher output?

I believe that the power supply changed in the year 2010 which may have changed the calibration game. Not sure but excellent question. Given this input I should probably use the light for a night or two before sending it in for the upgrading process. Want to remove all doubt and make sure I made a good decision.

At the same time, the HDS FAQ's suggest that the lumen level has to increase 50% to be noticeable by the human eye. So...a distinction (200 vs 170 lumens) without a meaningful difference.

wacbzz · Mar 14, 2019

RCS1300 said:
At the same time, the HDS FAQ's suggest that the lumen level has to increase 50% to be noticeable by the human eye. So...a distinction (200 vs 170 lumens) without a meaningful difference.

For sure. I was just thinking that maybe with the electronics upgraded, perhaps the output level on the GD could be made higher than the known 200. That would be awesome!

hjkl · Mar 14, 2019

I used to have one when they were available. The Osram GD stands out in my memory as being one of the few power LEDs that was white without any noticeable or unpleasing tint. One of the others at the time being the SSC P4 available in the Novatacs.

I remember comparing it at the time to my 80/110lm SF e1b with TIR optic and it having comparable throw, although I did not take any measurements.

The emitter also has a unique looking package (https://imgur.com/Zclzt3G) that you don't see often. If I found one today I would add it to my collection.

RCS1300 · Mar 14, 2019

wacbzz said:
For sure. I was just thinking that maybe with the electronics upgraded, perhaps the output level on the GD could be made higher than the known 200. That would be awesome!

Wow! I did not think about this. Do not know much about the light build and whether everything but the LED emitter can be changed. Great question to investigate with Henry. Thank you!

archimedes · Mar 14, 2019

Yes, the Golden Dragon is a neat emitter.

I have a couple, and wouldn't change mine, even if someone offered at no cost to me :shrug:

The calibration of each light was based on the flux binning characteristic of the individual emitter, in conjunction with HDS max drive current policy.

As I understand it, if the particular emitter barely made the output cutoff at peak drive current ... it gets that higher output. If it just missed the mark ... it gets the next lower output, but extended (unadvertised) runtime (since it is being underdriven)

I doubt that HDS would "overdrive" an original stock emitter so, if you want more lumens, you would need to replace with a more efficient newer LED.

RCS1300 · Mar 14, 2019

archimedes said:
I doubt that HDS would "overdrive" an original stock emitter so, if you want more lumens, you would need to replace with a more efficient newer LED.

Agreed on the LED driving.

Nice endorsement on the Golden Dragon. Cannot wait to give the Golden Dragon a try. Will definitely try the Golden Dragon out for at least one night before I consider replacing it.

usdiver · Mar 14, 2019

RCS1300 said:
The name "Golden Dragon" sounds interesting. Today, I purchased a Titanium RaClicky and plan to have HDS upgrade it. Want to tap the experts here on the Golden Dragon LED emitter which is currently in the light calibrated at 170 Lumens.

In my thread searches the best information I could find on this emitter is that it really "punches" out of the light. Is there anything else remarkable about this LED emitter that I should know about. Certainly do not want to mess with it if the emitter is spectacular relative to what is available today -- ten years later.

Thoughts/experiences?

I had one and did a little review which is still on YouTube. Only reason I sold it is I don't like clickies. Plus I needed the money at the time. Had it been a rotary I d have kept it. I will say the golden dragon has a beautiful tint but it doesn't match the 250 for throw. I d say it's very similar to the 200 but 250 beats it. Not to the WOW factor but you CAN tell a difference between the 2.

WarriorOfLight · Mar 15, 2019

RCS1300 said:
The name "Golden Dragon" sounds interesting. Today, I purchased a Titanium RaClicky and plan to have HDS upgrade it. Want to tap the experts here on the Golden Dragon LED emitter which is currently in the light calibrated at 170 Lumens.

At first a very nice catch! :twothumbs congrats!

I also have such a Ti Clicky. If I were you I would stay with the GD Emitter. My Ti Clicky has a very nice tint (at least I like this tint), and also decent throw for a 170 lumens light. I would definately not do any changes on this light. The Ti Clicky with the GD emitter is kind of history. If you let do the electronics & LED upgrade @HDS, it will never be the same Ti Clicky again, and never be this cool piece of history. I still use my Ti Clicky and the 170 Lumens are perfect for an EDC.

But this is only my 0.02€.

RCS1300 · Mar 15, 2019

usdiver said:
I had one and did a little review which is still on YouTube.

That review was the one with the green table mat, right? I must have watched that review 3 or 4 times. Thank you.

I prefer the Executive interface.

peter yetman · Mar 15, 2019

I haven't done much research on these. Is there much difference between the UI on the RA Clicky and an HDS Executive?
Thanks,
P

RCS1300 · Mar 15, 2019

WarriorOfLight said:
At first a very nice catch! :twothumbs congrats!

If you let do the electronics & LED upgrade @HDS, it will never be the same Ti Clicky again, and never be this cool piece of history.

I am thinking about this and Henry kind of mentioned it too. The question becomes..."at this point in time, is the Titanium RaClicky a collectible or a user". Will it lose value if I update it to be a High CRI daily user? I do not know.

After much research and experience in flashlights over the last six years I have found Henry's lights to be the best of the best in terms of thoughtful design. In my mind, for an EDC light no other light even comes close.

Simply put, I want to own one of Henry's top tier lights and I prefer the Executive user interface. Based on what I learned about the demand for the Titanium Rotary run and the user preference for the Rotary over the Executive interface it is my opinion that an Executive Titanium model will not be offered in the near future due to low demand and high cost of a small quantity production run. So, to realize my goal I had to go back ten years in time to the Titanium RaClicky. Part one is done.

I want to use this titanium light every day and I prefer High CRI. Do not know what "Golden Dragon" means. Does it mean the light beam is Golden or it was state of the art ten years ago or it was just a cool name someone gave to the emitter. Based on all this great feedback, I guess I should experience it for myself before I pull the trigger to upgrade the light to High CRI.

RCS1300 · Mar 15, 2019

peter yetman said:
I haven't done much research on these. Is there much difference between the UI on the RA Clicky and an HDS Executive?
Thanks,
P

No, not at all. The Titanium RaClicky has V2 software and in the FAQ's the instructions actually call it a EDC Clicky Flashlight. The HDS Executive has a different power supply and a few more features like True Momentary, which makes it a Tactical light on demand. If you have a portable hole puncher, that is a good feature.

Lithium466 · Mar 15, 2019

RCS1300 said:
I want to use this titanium light every day and I prefer High CRI. Do not know what "Golden Dragon" means. Does it mean the light beam is Golden or it was state of the art ten years ago or it was just a cool name someone gave to the emitter. Based on all this great feedback, I guess I should experience it for myself before I pull the trigger to upgrade the light to High CRI.

The GD/GD+ were nice emitters, back in the day. Decent tint, "punchy" beam thanks to the tiny die.

Today with the many high CRI offerings, there are probably some nicer tinted emitters, also more powerful.

I believe the 250 / XP-G2 is still the HDS throw king, don't know about the new XP-G3, but the GD+ weren't far behind. The Luminous SST-20 are also nice throwy emitters, available in high CRI too.

Now what would a driver update on a legacy light would bring ? Some minor programming/options improvement, like the momentary mode, also the 40s burst instead of 10.

And an efficiency loss at low level, for a slight efficiency gain at higher levels (to be measured and proven). Since the Titanium legacy will never get the rotary knob, not sure the circuit upgrade would be worth it, of course considering the other programming differences.
Now I don't have any legacy lights anymore, they all (had only 2) died of parasitic drain and were replaced by current lights (losing their beautiful Seoul high CRI emitter in the process)

YMMV. Personally I'd just go for an emitter upgrade...but maybe that can't go without a (pricy) circuit upgrade at HDS, don't know. Unless the original legacy driver exhibits some parasitic drain. Sometimes it's very minor and can go for a long time unsuspected.

Edit : oh, and Golden Dragon is just a name for the emitter family, nothing to do with the tint. I'll try to post a white wall beamshot

RCS1300 · Mar 15, 2019

Lithium466 said:
Now what would a driver update on a legacy light would bring ? Some minor programming/options improvement, like the momentary mode, also the 40s burst instead of 10.

Now I don't have any legacy lights anymore, they all (had only 2) died of parasitic drain and were replaced by current lights (losing their beautiful Seoul high CRI emitter in the process)

Unless the original legacy driver exhibits some parasitic drain. Sometimes it's very minor and can go for a long time unsuspected.

Thank you for the tremendous amount of great information. I have only been in the HDS game since 2014. Based on my research, Henry upgraded the Power Supply in March 2010, less than one year after the Titanium RaClicky was sold. Do not know how important that component is in the upgrade. There had to be a reason he changed Power Supplies.

HDS Systems - Golden Dragon LED emitter....

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