1000 lumen HDS

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GoVegan

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I often see people request a 1000 lumen light EDC in the 'Recommend Me a Light For...' forum, personally I always laugh thinking to myself why the hell do they need a 1000 lumens for EDC and that they are most probably just making an assumption based on their previous usage of some "300 lumen" Chinese "tactical flashlight" purchased on Amazon or one of the Chinese online shopping stores, and that "300 lumen" light was way over rated and was probably more like 70-100 lumens. Besides, people often don't understand the difference between lumens and candela even.
I'm sure there are some people that really need a long distance spotter, but I should imagine that would be more for work and job specific tasks as opposed to EDC, and if work related then most people would probably be better off getting a light designed and marketed towards their specific profession and carry this light on their belt, in a tool kit or keeping in their truck. Another case, back yard usage, you'd be better off keeping a high powered light by your back door as opposed to trying to get your EDC light to do the same job.

I have also read about people refusing to buy HDS lights as they are "underpowered" compared to other companies out there. Well besides some of the lumen overrated Chinese lights, even if you look at some of the other well known brands out there, their lights usually have quick step downs in brightness levels and all these companies are really doing is gaming the FL1 standards and taking advantage of customers who don't know otherwise. Many companies are doing this but to give a few examples, paying for a Surefire P3X Fury 3 cell light rated at 900 lumens only to have it drop down to 650 after a few mins, or a Surefire E1B MV rated at 400 lumens for 1.25 hours but after 25 mins starts flickering and by the 30 mins point is less than 50% brightness (a particularly sore point for me as I really wanted this light but not with those specs), or an Olight S1R V2 rated at 900 lumens step down to 300 lumens after a few mins... I could go on and with many many other examples. BTW yes I understand for some use cases step downs are acceptable and that some people may not care, and may even prefer this design.

So on the contrary to the above, with HDS lights, each light is individually calibrated so you know that you really are getting the rated lumens and because of this you also get at least the listed runtime (often you get much more runtime than listed in the HDS specs).
However the real functionality of HDS lights come from their multiple output levels (which applies for both the clicky and the rotary models) and the design of the easily accessed UI, i.e. no scrolling through different brightness levels and disco modes, being able to easily and instantly get to different output levels especially with getting to maximum just by holding down the button.


The 1000 lumen HDS

Henry wrote a fantastic white paper about flashlight design and how our eyes work, I consider this required reading for any self-proclaimed flashaholic or even anyone just getting into the hobby even if you have no intention of ever buying a HDS light (I know I have read it at least 2 or 3 times over the past several years).
https://www.hdssystems.com/Articles/LedFlashlightWhitePaper.pdf

It details:

-----
"Put another way, you need 4 times the light to see twice as far with the same
illumination level
.

[text cut]

"Taking all of the above together suggests that we can use lower levels of light for many
tasks and gain benefits in the process. Not only do you increase battery life with lower
output levels, you will be able to see further when you really need to and you reduce
your visibility footprint. Here is the scenario. Imagine you are using a low light level
to navigate - such as following a trail in the mountains at night - which you can easily
do on less than 1 lumen. Also imagine you can get maximum output with a simple
press of the button. After hiking for a while you come to a place where you need to
look far ahead. You hold your light above your head, point your light to where you
want to see and then press the button for maximum light output. Because your eyes
are dark adapted, you will be able to see much further with the maximum amount of
light than if you had been following the trail with a brighter light. Depending on
circumstances, you may be able to see twice as far on the same amount of light
. That is
a huge increase in distance without buying a bigger flashlight."
-----

So once you understand the above, you can see how with your small 250 lumen HDS light, you really can 4x the performance and see further into the darkness than with a 1000 lumen light.

I know from my own personal usage that my HDS EDC LE 250 lumen XP-G2 when using the 110 lumens, looks much brighter than my Elzetta Alpha 415 lumen light and I also get 3x the runtime on the same battery too, the HDS even at 110 lumens also throws further and seems much brighter than my Malkoff MDC SHO 250 lumen XP-G2.

Now wait! Before commenting read the white paper, it really is worth your time. ;)
 
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Modernflame

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Don't you know that humans were unable to function after sunset until 2016? The dark ages lasted until 2013, even by the strictest standards.
 

Bob_McBob

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The fact of the matter is for $79 I can get a Zebralight SC64 of some flavour and have better output, better battery life, better driver efficiency, better regulation, and plenty of low modes to use on the trail in a light that's the same size as an HDS. There are plenty of situations where a high output with stepdown is extremely desirable, and there are plenty of modern lights that are technologically superior to HDS in many ways. Buy an HDS because you want an HDS and everything that goes into its design and production, not because you're pretending anything over 300 lumens is useless and all other EDC lights are poorly engineered.
 

Woods Walker

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All things being = aka same reflector etc etc etc I can see farther with a 1000 lumen mode in the woods than a 250 lumen light. I can see more of everything around me as well which is often of greater importance. Numbers are irrelevant to me as in percentage or whatever. My field perceptions are what concerns me. I have small lights with higher modes hitting that or much more and on occasion have used those modes. Sometimes it's nice when going down ledge at night or looking for the safest place to access water. Nice to see deeper and higher into the canopy for widow makers. Beyond that my number one use for a flashlight in the woods is when the weather is bad. Putting it near my head is exactly what I am trying to avoid hence why the headlamp is traded out. That said often I am just fine with a M61L or NLL around camp or for night hikes. I would take a reliable light over one less so. But then again I can have both and often do. I carry 2 lights. Also 2 knives. Some of my XHP50 or XHP35 lights are nothing short of amazing for 1X18650. Basically I can baton wood with a knife but it will never be an axe.
 

Random Dan

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The fact of the matter is for $79 I can get a Zebralight SC64 of some flavour and have better output, better battery life, better driver efficiency, better regulation, and plenty of low modes to use on the trail in a light that's the same size as an HDS. There are plenty of situations where a high output with stepdown is extremely desirable, and there are plenty of modern lights that are technologically superior to HDS in many ways. Buy an HDS because you want an HDS and everything that goes into its design and production, not because you're pretending anything over 300 lumens is useless and all other EDC lights are poorly engineered.
I carry an HDS rotary every day and I don't think I'd ever trade it out, but I'm with you that lights like ZL have many advantages. I enjoy both for different reasons.
 

Mr. LED

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The fact of the matter is for $79 I can get a Zebralight SC64 of some flavour and have better output, better battery life, better driver efficiency, better regulation, and plenty of low modes to use on the trail in a light that's the same size as an HDS. There are plenty of situations where a high output with stepdown is extremely desirable, and there are plenty of modern lights that are technologically superior to HDS in many ways. Buy an HDS because you want an HDS and everything that goes into its design and production, not because you're pretending anything over 300 lumens is useless and all other EDC lights are poorly engineered.

There, you said it.
 

Modernflame

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Despite my tongue-in-cheek comment earlier on this thread, I agree with the sentiment that the HDS is not bright enough for every situation. When the weather is nice, I enjoy night time trail walking through the woods. Yes, I can navigate on 50-100 lumens, but sometimes it's nice to push a 1000+ lumen high beam through the trees. I'd feel blind without that ability.
 

Mr. LED

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I feel better having 1000 lumens and not need it, than need it and not have it. Although 99% of my flashlight use is done under 20 lumens, mostly 0.01 Zebralight moonlight.
 

Johnnyh

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I just read the white paper, thanks for the heads up! While much of it is far above my head, I came away with an even greater appreciation of what an HDS is and why it's designed the way it is.
I've heard that Henry Schneiker is an avid Caver. I think I can safely say that much of what he has experienced in these darkest of environments (caves) has been in the heart of his design since inception. The HDS is not a searchlight, that's common knowledge. Like any light, it is made to illuminate you're way into dark places but unlike many lights, it's designed so that you can have great confidence that it will get you OUT of dark places. 1000 lumens is great, but if it puts out zero lumens after being kicked off a couple rocks, I don't want it.
 

peter yetman

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If I walk to out local store and halfway there find that I haven't got an HDS on me, I go back for one, even though it's daytime.
Sadoh.
P
 

peter yetman

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I'm not obsessive, I'll have you know.
P

By the way, I've just picked up a 100 Lumen (that's one hundred) HDS. I realy don't need much more.
P
 
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InvisibleFrodo

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The fact of the matter is for $79 I can get a Zebralight SC64 of some flavour and have better output, better battery life, better driver efficiency, better regulation, and plenty of low modes to use on the trail in a light that's the same size as an HDS. There are plenty of situations where a high output with stepdown is extremely desirable, and there are plenty of modern lights that are technologically superior to HDS in many ways.

I'm curious what this is all based on. How do you know the zebralight has a more efficient driver? How do you know it has better regulation? Same goes for battery life... My understanding is HDS lights have insanely long run times on those low low modes.
I'm asking because the way it is phrased here seems very opinion based, as you aren't putting up any numbers of any kind. But I would be very interested to see those statistics.
Last, I'm curious what lights you are referring to that are technologically superior in many ways as well as curious in what ways are they technologically superior.
No sarcasm at all, I'm genuinely curious and seeking information. The Zebra Lights have had my attention for quite some time, but I have to confess that I've never used, held, or even seen a Zebra Light in person. Only pictures and reading, but my impressions and understanding seemed to go against your claims. I hope you read this and respond. I am very curious to read and perhaps you can educate me further. Knowledge is power.
 

thermal guy

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HDS are very good lights. Make no mistake about that but, they certainly no longer have the market on tough long running EDC lights. They have som nice features but most really aren't necessary. They have really long run times on the lower levels but not as long as some they are tough but honestly would put a Malkoff ahead in that category. And then there's the price. Well that's on the VERY limits of bang for your bucks. It may sound like I'm bashing them but I'm not. I love the things. What I'm saying is that others have stepped up there game and have lights that are very very good at a fraction of the price. There market is kinda like a group following and will never spill over the the general population.
 

CREEXHP70LED

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I have also read about people refusing to buy HDS lights as they are "underpowered" compared to other companies out there. Well besides some of the lumen overrated Chinese lights, even if you look at some of the other well known brands out there, their lights usually have quick step downs in brightness levels and all these companies are really doing is gaming the FL1 standards and taking advantage of customers who don't know otherwise. Many companies are doing this but to give a few examples, paying for a Surefire P3X Fury 3 cell light rated at 900 lumens only to have it drop down to 650 after a few mins


Yes, that P3X Surefire rated at 1,000 lumens does start at about 1,280 lumens and falls down to 650 after a few minutes and stays above 600 lumens for about 1.5 hours then continues dropping off. The Elzetta Charlie that is rated at 900 lumens does start out at 1,050 lumens. However, it stays above it's 900 lumen rating at 930 lumens for almost 1 full hour before falling below 900 lumens.

The Surefire P3X vs Elzetta Charilie Graph is in the video here:
https://youtu.be/pQfSuVxF87Q

I EDC more than one light but one of them is a Emisar D4 XPL-HI A3 4,300 Lumens. It is in my pocket right now with my Hinderer XM-18 and beside my Glock 19.:D
 
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Modernflame

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Sorry, short attention span. Do I understand that you carry your G19 in your pocket? If so, that's awesome. Any photos of your gear would be welcome.

Back on topic. The SF P3X and the Elzetta Charlie are top tier flashlights. I don't know of anyone who would dispute that. However, it's an apples and oranges comparison with the HDS, since the latter runs on one battery while the SF and Elzetta require three. Granted, the OP was about luminosity rather than efficiency or form factor. Or maybe I'm captain obvious this afternoon.
 
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Mr. LED

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I'm curious what this is all based on. How do you know the zebralight has a more efficient driver? How do you know it has better regulation? Same goes for battery life... My understanding is HDS lights have insanely long run times on those low low modes.
I'm asking because the way it is phrased here seems very opinion based, as you aren't putting up any numbers of any kind. But I would be very interested to see those statistics.
Last, I'm curious what lights you are referring to that are technologically superior in many ways as well as curious in what ways are they technologically superior.
No sarcasm at all, I'm genuinely curious and seeking information. The Zebra Lights have had my attention for quite some time, but I have to confess that I've never used, held, or even seen a Zebra Light in person. Only pictures and reading, but my impressions and understanding seemed to go against your claims. I hope you read this and respond. I am very curious to read and perhaps you can educate me further. Knowledge is power.

That's a good skeptical approach. Let's compare a few numbers, all taken from both manufacturers website and known to be consistent and tested in real life by many colleagues around the forums. All runtimes are ANSI (drop to 10% initial brightness).


Take the HDS 250 lumen and the Zebralight SC64w in comparison. Both using 18650 @ ~3300mAh:


HDS @ 250 lumens - 3.5 hours
Zebralight SC64w @ 264 lumens - 6.3 hours


HDS @ 9.4 lumens - 91 hours
Zebralight SC64w @ 8.5 lumens - 175 hours


Now let's compare CR123 runtimes:


HDS @ 250 lumens - 1.5 hours
Zebralight SC32w @ 245 - 1.6 hours


HDS @ 9.4 lumens - 28 hours
Zebralight SC32w @ 8.5 lumens - 70 hours


On top of that, the Zebralight SC64w can go up to 1400 lumens when needed, and the SC32w to 446. Both in a much smaller size.


I tried to get the lumens values as close as possible providing manufacturer's published numbers.


Nobody is trying to bash or hype any manufacturer, i just showed you numbers that you were genuinely interested in seeing.
 
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