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Thread: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

  1. #31
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    Our dealers do not have the 16340 INR batteries yet, but I expect they will start stocking them soon. Knives and Tools is probably the closet to you.
    The dealer link was removed over a year ago.
    After the recent "450+ lumens" advertised specs for new HDS lights by the one and only dealer in Japan, I don't think I could trust this particular dealer; and international shipping and handling from HDS is 75 USD, so these new cells are too cost prohibitive for me.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    Our dealers do not have the 16340 INR batteries yet, but I expect they will start stocking them soon. Knives and Tools is probably the closet to you.
    Do you already have an order regarding this rechargables by K&T. I ask because, I will not buy any LiIon cells overseas anymore.... Therefore I'd be happy even if I wait a little bit longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    The dealer link was removed over a year ago.
    But we can all be lucky, Google remembers everything:
    https://www.hdssystems.com/Content/Dealers/
    Last edited by WarriorOfLight; 05-29-2019 at 04:52 AM.
    Still looking for Surefire G2 in Orange.
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  3. #33

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    There is also the Wayback Machine... Help Mr. Peabody!

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  4. #34
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    That thing is fab, I use it a lot to look at old Oveready gear.
    P
    Peter's shopping list:- HDS / Oveready 170N Exec/LE and an Oveready V4 Nichia Drop In. Otherwise I'm content. Want want want, that's me.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by wacbzz View Post
    In the other thread about the new batteries, there is mention of HDS testing as well as work done by an “independent” tester. Can we get any info on this testing (such as names of the other batteries included in said tests and the exact type of HDS light(s) used for the tests), or will this be proprietary HDS info?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    It will all be published when we list the batteries on the web site. Just taking us some time to get it together while trying to get the titanium lights out the door. I'll also put up a link to the "independent tester" so you can see their results. Discharge rates, charge rates, etc. All the good stuff.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    Now on the HDS web page: 16340 INR Batteries
    Any timetable on posting the requested and promised info about these batteries?

  6. #36

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by wacbzz View Post
    Any timetable on posting the requested and promised info about these batteries?
    A Henry 2 weeks...

    Neither HDS or myself have any control over it. It's all when the independent tester decides to publish it. He has been testing batteries for years and has several on his site. I just checked his website and they are not posted there yet.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Thanks for the update, Hogo! Looking forward to the info when it's available.
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  8. #38

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Here you can see other batteries he has tested.

    https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteri...Test%20UK.html
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  9. #39
    Flashaholic* id30209's Avatar
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    Default HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Oh yeah, review is done

  10. #40
    Flashaholic* Lithium466's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Labeled as 700mAh and that's what it does. Interestingly the Vapcell offers a few more mAh, so much for my theory of them coming from the same factory.

  11. #41

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lithium466 View Post
    Labeled as 700mAh and that's what it does. Interestingly the Vapcell offers a few more mAh, so much for my theory of them coming from the same factory.
    I wouldn't trust what is written on the side of the battery for capacity any more than I trust lumen output on lights made 5 years ago... and some still today. If you look at their own testing, they took them down to 2.5 volts when measuring capacity.
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  12. #42

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    According to the tests on the site previously mentioned,
    Vapcell INR16340 800mAh (White): 746mAh @1A
    HDS Systems INR16340 700mAh (Red): 690mAh @1A

    That's the max current HDS lights draw, right?

    The difference grows slightly as the Amps decrease.

    Is there any reason to grab one over the other?

  13. #43
    Flashaholic* INFRNL's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Does hds have them up for sale yet? I could probably just go check the site, lol...but what fun is that

  14. #44
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by toads View Post
    According to the tests on the site previously mentioned,
    Vapcell INR16340 800mAh (White): 746mAh @1A
    HDS Systems INR16340 700mAh (Red): 690mAh @1A

    That's the max current HDS lights draw, right?

    The difference grows slightly as the Amps decrease.

    Is there any reason to grab one over the other?
    At 1 amp the differnce in capacity would mean a difference in runtime of about 3 minutes. At 350 ma the gain is about 10 minutes.
    The Vapcell did have a better performance at higher currents, though, but for the HDS it's not a big deal.
    I bought the Vapcel just because I can get them over here.
    P
    Last edited by peter yetman; 06-22-2019 at 12:22 AM.
    Peter's shopping list:- HDS / Oveready 170N Exec/LE and an Oveready V4 Nichia Drop In. Otherwise I'm content. Want want want, that's me.

  15. #45

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by toads View Post
    According to the tests on the site previously mentioned,
    Vapcell INR16340 800mAh (White): 746mAh @1A
    HDS Systems INR16340 700mAh (Red): 690mAh @1A

    That's the max current HDS lights draw, right?

    The difference grows slightly as the Amps decrease.

    Is there any reason to grab one over the other?
    Not that I can think of. I don't know what the duty cycles of them are. Too knew to tell. I know Henry was getting increased capacity the more he uses his according to his testing, but that will eventually start dropping like all cells do. The company that manufactured ours claims they will still have over 80% after 400 cycles... whether that is true or not, I do not know.

    I would say if you are already placing an order, it just makes it easy to add them. We aren't in the battery business and only did these because when we started doing it, there were no other INR 16340 batteries out there and we wanted to offer some for our customers. I don't trust battery companies anymore than a politician...
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  16. #46
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    What is the continuous Amp (current) draw of a HDS 325 XP-G3 Neutral Long Throw flashlight on maximum lumens?

    Reason I ask is that I recently disabled burst mode on my HDS light mentioned above and have been running the light on Maximum for 10-15 minutes at a time. Been using a Fenix 700mAh protected 16340 and an Efest 700mAh unprotected 16340. With both batteries, the light ran great for 15 minutes on Maximum. Then it started to step down and step up and step down in lumen levels sometimes two levels at a time. That step down/up behavior did not happen with burst enabled. Researched the specifications on these batteries and as expected the information was not available for the Fenix and wildly unbelievable for the eFest - 9A maximum continuous discharge and 6A continuous discharge rate. I read that the HDS INR has a 2.1A maximum discharge rate. I am going to do some more testing in the next few days. I will use a primary CR123 battery and then use a HDS Sanyo NCR 18650 battery to see if either of those show the same lumen level "dance" after 15 minutes on maximum lumen level with Burst mode disabled.

    My best guess at this time is that the smaller 16340 Fenix and Efest batteries cannot handle the drain of the HDS 325 XP-G3 NLT light on maximum for more than 15 minutes without stepping down. This is interesting stuff. May have to purchase the HDS INR batteries to use my HDS lights the way I want.

  17. #47
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by RCS1300 View Post
    Reason I ask is that I recently disabled burst mode on my HDS light mentioned above and have been running the light on Maximum for 10-15 minutes at a time. Been using a Fenix 700mAh protected 16340 and an Efest 700mAh unprotected 16340. With both batteries, the light ran great for 15 minutes on Maximum. Then it started to step down and step up and step down in lumen levels sometimes two levels at a time. That step down/up behavior did not happen with burst enabled.
    Don't forget about thermal throttling. From the FAQ:

    Will my flashlight get hot?

    Your flashlight protects itself from becoming too hot to safely handle. Even though we do not overdrive the LED, there is still enough heat generated on the highest settings to raise the temperature of the light to potentially dangerous levels. Thus, your flashlight keeps track of the temperature of both the LED and the exterior of the flashlight and reduces power when necessary to prevent your flashlight for getting too hot.

    If you have disabled Burst mode, level 24 will run for roughly 4 minutes without a thermal path before power is automatically reduced to keep the LED and your flashlight in the safe temperature range. If you provide a thermal path, such as holding the flashlight loosely in your hand, your body can draw away sufficient heat to prevent the your flashlight from automatically reducing power. Note that Burst mode automatically reduces power long before the thermal power reduction would automatically take place.

    Level 23 will often run continuously without needing to reduce power even without a good thermal path - for instance, while sitting on the table. However, should it be necessary, your flashlight will automatically reduce power.

    Level 22 and below do not generate enough heat to require power reductions under normal conditions.
    Last edited by tyu; 08-08-2019 at 07:11 AM. Reason: Remove pasted style formatting

  18. #48
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by tyu View Post
    Don't forget about thermal throttling. From the FAQ:

    Will my flashlight get hot?

    Your flashlight protects itself from becoming too hot to safely handle. Even though we do not overdrive the LED, there is still enough heat generated on the highest settings to raise the temperature of the light to potentially dangerous levels. Thus, your flashlight keeps track of the temperature of both the LED and the exterior of the flashlight and reduces power when necessary to prevent your flashlight for getting too hot.

    If you have disabled Burst mode, level 24 will run for roughly 4 minutes without a thermal path before power is automatically reduced to keep the LED and your flashlight in the safe temperature range. If you provide a thermal path, such as holding the flashlight loosely in your hand, your body can draw away sufficient heat to prevent the your flashlight from automatically reducing power. Note that Burst mode automatically reduces power long before the thermal power reduction would automatically take place.

    Level 23 will often run continuously without needing to reduce power even without a good thermal path - for instance, while sitting on the table. However, should it be necessary, your flashlight will automatically reduce power.

    Level 22 and below do not generate enough heat to require power reductions under normal conditions.
    Wow. I forgot that. Thank you. And, yes I now feel stupid.

    Burst mode will be enabled going forward.

  19. #49
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by RCS1300 View Post
    Wow. I forgot that. Thank you. And, yes I now feel stupid.

    Burst mode will be enabled going forward.
    It's easy to forget. I felt an HDS get hot only for the first time this past week after disabling burst playing around with a Surefire slide-on filter.

  20. #50

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    I wouldn't say HDS get "hot" but definitely can get "warm" before throttling down.
    I've played with a few lights recently that are "popular" and noticed one could burn their house down with them... including pockets, automobiles, the break room at work... Get hot enough after 20 seconds you can burn yourself. While many think this is... dare I say... cool, I don't trust them enough to leave them alone without taking the battery out. HDS just designs things differently.

    All the HDS run the same amp draw on high.
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  21. #51

    Default HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Don‘t forget that you also have the 325 Lumen emitter, the highest lumen count in an HDS. I know that my aluminum 200 lumen lights only get slightly warm on level 24 with burst, my titanium 200 lumen on the other hand starts getting hot, or rather toasty (level 24, with the button pushed down the entire time so no burst)

    Of course, even with the titanium getting quite hot, you can still bear holding it steady in the hand, and it would not be enough to burn something. I did not notice any stepdowns.
    Last edited by LuxTacGear; 08-08-2019 at 10:42 AM.

  22. #52
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    HDS just designs things differently...
    Certainly true. This is why I'm an HDS customer. Everything about the flashlight is designed to survive. Though I appreciate a few other manufacturers (okay, one), I will never be without an HDS (or three).
    “May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.”
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  23. #53
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post

    All the HDS run the same amp draw on high.
    Good to know. Have a test set-up to test my current IMR Efest 700mAh batteries in three lights simultaneously - the Nichia 219b 4000K, the Nichia 219c 5700K, and the NLT 325 lumen light. Temp in the room is 72 degrees F with a fan on high pointed at the heads of all three lights.

    From what I have read the IMR's are good at passing lots of current without getting hot while the HDS INR pass less current but last longer. If these Efest IMR's last less than 70% as long (53 minutes) compared to the HDS INR's at 1:15 minutes on level 23 I may be switching. My definition of lasting is time it takes to step down one level to level 22. I may have to perform this test multiple times as I am working and might miss the step down.



    Results:

    With the 700mAH Efest IMR batteries in the HDS flashlight at level 23 with burst enabled - so I started at level 24(Max), it took the following time for each light to drop down to level 22 with the following voltages, respectively:

    Nichia 219b 4000K: 1:00 (60 minutes) at voltage 3.35V

    XP-G3 5000K: 1:07 (67 minutes) at voltage 3.33V

    Nichia 219c 5700K: 1:25 ( 85 minutes) at voltage 3.40V

    My take away is that these 700mAH Efest IMR batteries last a respectable amount of time in the HDS lights at Level 23. The HDS 700mAh INR batteries will probably be more consistent in their run times and last longer on average.

    To obtain a tighter sample of average run times would require more testing. This single test was enough for me to answer my basic question on run times of the Efest 700mAh IMR batteries in a HDS light.

    Edit Add:

    Did some additional testing on the Efest 700mAh IMR batteries by testing three different batteries (#7, #1, and #3) in each of the three HDS lights. I found that the run times are fairly consistent and all more than one hour. Additionally, I found that my Nichia 219c 5700K is more efficient than the other two emitters tested. See below:


    I decided to purchase four HDS INR 16340 batteries for three reasons. First, they will likely have slightly longer run times. Second, Henry and Dan picked them so I trust the batteries more than the Efests. And, third, during the Spring and Summer months I go through a fully charged 16340 each and every day so they will get lots of use. I move to the HDS 18650 Sanyo batteries during the late Fall and Winter when the days are shorter and I found I was going through two 16340 battery changes daily.
    Last edited by RCS1300; 08-14-2019 at 06:05 AM.

  24. #54

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    I wish I could get a few of those INR batteries, but the shipping to Europe is too expensive. I dig your test results RCS1300

  25. #55
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Maybe you could contact Knives and Tools. They have HDS, Maybe they are willing to add the INR cells to the product line they have?
    Still looking for Surefire G2 in Orange.
    If you have one you don't like please PM me.

  26. #56

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Most of the 219c 5700k were over-achievers... very efficient emitter so run time should be longer on that one.
    Every emitter varies in efficiency within the bin code, but the High Noon was/is a great performer.
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  27. #57
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by LuxTacGear View Post
    I wish I could get a few of those INR batteries, but the shipping to Europe is too expensive. I dig your test results RCS1300
    You can get the Vapcell 16340 at Nkon. It tested well at Lygte.
    P
    Peter's shopping list:- HDS / Oveready 170N Exec/LE and an Oveready V4 Nichia Drop In. Otherwise I'm content. Want want want, that's me.

  28. #58
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    So after the test I did of the Efest 700mAh batteries in post #53, I realized I did not have any HDS INR batteries so...I ordered four of them. Now I have broadened the acronym alphabet of my 16340's. I have the ICR protected, the IMR, and now the INR.

    Based on the HDS battery runtime table, I should get a slightly longer runtime with the INR batteries compared to the Efest 700mAh batteries.
    Last edited by RCS1300; 08-13-2019 at 06:26 PM.

  29. #59
    Flashaholic* Slumber Pass's Avatar
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    Default HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    This might be a myth, but don't new LiIon cells increase in capacity after a few break in cycles?

  30. #60

    Default Re: HDS 16340 INR Batteries LiNiMnCoO2

    Quote Originally Posted by Slumber Pass View Post
    This might be a myth, but don't new LiIon cells increase in capacity after a few break in cycles?
    That was our experience with the cells we tested.
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