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Thread: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

  1. #31

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    I do recall Vinh liking tailclickies, so I think he prefers the FW3A.

  2. #32

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    I am super excited you are modding these. I have a question which I think you answered before but is still very confusing to me. You keep using the term W1 and W2 to refer to emitter types but I still don't know what that means and it doesn't seem to be clearly explained in your product pages. The other emitter choices are clearly stated (i.e. "Cree XP-L HI 3D(NW 5000K)") but I am not sure what W1 and W2 refers to. Can you tell me what emitters these are?

    I think I am pretty knowledgeable of the different emitter types but I find these shorthands pretty difficult to keep up with. For example, a choice is "HI 5000K V4" which took a bit of Googling to figure out it's a Cree XPL-HI 5000K tint but not sure what V4 refers to.
    Peace!
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  3. #33
    Flashaholic* id30209's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    W1 (Osram White 1mm chip - less intensity and more throw)
    https://led4power.com/product/new-os...row-king-bare/


    W2 (Osram White 2mm chip - more intensity and less throw)
    https://led4power.com/product/osram-...m2-throw-bare/


    Sent from Tapatalk

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyownEnergizer250lumen View Post
    Wouldnít a triple D4 mean larger optics and more throw? i.e. 60k lux and 2k lumens? That was the point of the comparison, assuming different optics in the larger body, and potentially being driven harder. (Comparing each LED quad specs of FW3A vs D4, there is a serious difference in output.)

    I donít need more than 10 seconds at max lol, basic office job with no actual use requirements other than sheer ďooís and aweísĒ when night time falls. Just a toy to out-spec my old toys.
    I think you are missing the point that the triple optic that would be used in the D4 is the same exact triple optic that could be used in the FW3a.

    You can also compare the Stock Triple FW3A w/ XP-L 5k vs Quad FW3A w/ XP-L 5k in Vinh's GIF he posted- that is effectively what you are looking for just with XP-L HIs. These differences are small, even at max, and that won't last.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
    I do recall Vinh liking tailclickies, so I think he prefers the FW3A.


    That is my vote as well. I also recall him preferring triples, but that could have been a builders-thing.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    I enjoy this discussion between these 2 lights. If you have both I would like to hear from you. Again do you guys want me to compare these two in a video or just pictures and type out here?
    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  7. #37
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    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Whatever is easier for you works for me👌

  8. #38

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    I enjoy this discussion between these 2 lights. If you have both I would like to hear from you. Again do you guys want me to compare these two in a video or just pictures and type out here?
    Both the D4 and the FW3A are great lights. They're both very small and compact for 18650s.

    Comparing the stock D4 to the stock FW3A here are some advantages and disadvantages of each:

    Emisar D4
    + Better heatsinking
    + Bigger selection of body colors, textures and materials, and LEDs.
    + Higher output due to extra LED
    + Sideswitch provides a more secure grip when using light's controls.
    + Multiple battery tube configurations
    + Mechanical tailcap lockout + electronic lockout.
    + Antiroll design even when clip is not installed.
    + Lexel aux LED board available now.
    - Protruding sideswitch makes the D4 prone to accidental pocket activation. Can burn a hole through your pants if not locked out (this happened to 2 of my pants pockets... oops!)
    - Locking out a light to prevent accidental activation removes much of the convenience of having a pocket EDC.
    - RampingIOS electronic lockout is 6 clicks

    FW3A

    +Elegant design
    +Metal tailcap switch should last longer than typical rubber boot. The D4's button boot can wear out.
    +Tailcap switches tend to be more resistant to accidental pocket activation than the D4's protruding sideswitch.
    + Anduril firmware has many more features than RampingIOS.
    + FW3A has a triple-channel FET+8+1 driver. This provides much more regulation than the D4's dual-channel FET+1 driver.
    + Default top of ramp is set at 8x7135 (2.8 amps)... bright, but not bright enough to burn a hole in your pants pocket. Even if the light accidentally turns on in the pocket from the button being held down by your pocket stuffing it probably won't destroy anything, unlike the D4.
    + weighs less than a D4 with 18650 tube.
    + Narrower, which may be better for EDC pocket carry.
    + Anduril's electronic lockout is 4 clicks.
    + Lexel aux LED board in design phase, but not available yet.
    - No mechanical lockout possible. Electronic lockout only.

    Of course the above just refers to the lights in their stock configurations. Both lights can be modded and the issue with the D4 accidentally activating in the pocket can be solved.

    The FW3A is much newer so fewer options are currently available for it. There is a possibility that other versions of the FW3A will come out. Neal (distributor of the FW3A) mentioned that he would check into the possibility of copper and titanium FW3As.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    I enjoy this discussion between these 2 lights. If you have both I would like to hear from you. Again do you guys want me to compare these two in a video or just pictures and type out here?
    A video with a small segment about the preferred thrower specs/patterns would be wonderful!

    Videos (improv, unedited, raw) show your emotions around a light much better than words on a white background can. We can hear and see your excitement or disapproval of various elements to these lights, which sway us more than paper comparisons.

    Just my two cents, do as you wish Vinh!

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    I enjoy this discussion between these 2 lights. If you have both I would like to hear from you. Again do you guys want me to compare these two in a video or just pictures and type out here?
    There is a LOT of buzz about the FW3A right now. IDK, it could go either way as a result. Your opinions on the matter are very much interesting, but I'd rather see a video of you tearing down an Eagletac, or anything about Genesis!!!!! DYING to see what that turns out as.

  11. #41

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad R

    Individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    Do you guys still want individual thread for lights? If not I will just post it all in the lounge.



  12. #42
    Flashaholic* Keitho's Avatar
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    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad R

    Amazing, same dimensions as the SC64, only 15g heavier, efficient regulation up to 8x7135, with a tail switch and a well thought-out pocket clip.

    Anyone have thoughts on the 219b vs SST20 versions for a high CRI 4000-4500K? The grail for me is an efficient high CRI version that doesn't have a harsh transition from hotspot to spill...

  13. #43

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad R

    Quote Originally Posted by Keitho View Post
    Amazing, same dimensions as the SC64, only 15g heavier, efficient regulation up to 8x7135, with a tail switch and a well thought-out pocket clip.

    Anyone have thoughts on the 219b vs SST20 versions for a high CRI 4000-4500K? The grail for me is an efficient high CRI version that doesn't have a harsh transition from hotspot to spill...
    Frosted lens will be best for no harsh transitions
    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  14. #44

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad R

    These W1/W2 Triple specific help gives us the amazing throw in these new FW3Avn.

    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  15. #45
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    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad R

    Just snap 'em off like a Hershey bar?

  16. #46

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Just passing an idea:
    KawiBoy1428 at the other place has also done a quad. But he widened the bezel opening and says it works better.

  17. #47

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Everything below is just my personal opinion. Please take it for what itís worth.

    D4 VS FWA3

    I will refer to D4 as D and FWA3 as F


    1. Due to the slender body F seems much smaller and compact VS D. This gives an elegant look but does have design cue from HDS. Slender body also = less mass for heat sinking. D has very little mass to maintain its peak output and F has even less. I always prefer a bit stubbier while keeping length to a minimum. Stubbier lights with thicker walls ads to quality feeling of quality.
    2. F seems to have thicker LED MCPCB shelf which is plus
    3. D design is more original despite being mostly conventional.
    4. Being a triple the head is also smaller. Trade off some lumen for throw. However more LEDS at lower drive levels will usually be more efficient than less LEDs driven to the same output level. I like both optics equally.
    5. F side button placement and rear switch placement is of course subjective and depends on your use. However D button is more reliable but less aesthetically pleasing being rubber VS metal. F button although work well does need to be approach with firm pressure and preferably perpendicular to the pad. Approaching from an angle you might get a click with audible confirmation yet no light activation.
    6. I personally prefer tail switch due to the way I handle my lights but I LOVE a light that tail stand as nightstand ceiling bounce is one of my main use for any light. Side switch will allow for easier mode changes VS a rear switch in this aspect.
    7. Both lights Ramping UI are great but neither have quick or instant access to Strobe or momentary Turbo if that is something you need.
    8. F pocket clip body to tail cap retention is superior to D pop on clip.
    9. Knurling adds a utilitarian look and operation but take away from elegant. D large square knurling is a tiny bit more grippy than Fís and are place appropriately on the body and thus retaining good looks. F small square knurling are less grippy and are place on th body in way I find less attractive.
    10. D has effective cooling fin that looks good. Cooling fins can take away from elegance when applied excessively. F lack of fins and low mass are big hits to heat handling.
    11. Neither has a metal scallop/finned bezel to keep cost and length down.
    12. F clicky sounds rough and unrefined
    13. D anodized thread allow for physical lockout. F non-anodized thread = Electronic lockout only.
    14. F Driver is superior to D by having more current regulated 7135 chips for lower levels.
    15. F lack of any prints on the body = great elegance but make it very OEM like.
    16. Both light Anodizing are supar when compared to Fenix, zebralight or Surefire. I consider D18 and Acebeam anodizing 1 touch above F & D but 1 below the three leaders mentioned above.
    17. F is easier to service with all parts easily teardown as all parts are only held together with threads . D button is pressed in is not removable. Driver is glued in. D spring PCB in tail cap also glued in. In this case, serviceable also equal more reliability issues as thing can fall out of place such as a loose driver retaining ring or tail cap lacking pressure to spring PCB.
    18. Both D and F has no way to attach a lanyard if a clip is not installed. If clip is installed F will have a better lanyard attachment point as clip cannot be pull off of light.
    19. Both light step down TOO quick from Turbo due to crazy performance and minimal mass.
    20. D is $35(Used to be $40) and F is $49 in its cheapest configuration. D4vn with quad W1 is $120. FW3Avn with Triple W1 is $115 .

    I was a never a fan of the D4vn and I am not even sure why until this day. Iís a well design light with crazy performance. Maybe itís the light weight or the thin anodization that adds to the cheap feeling. I too feel the same way regarding the FWA3vn. I am very impressed with the performance and length of the light despite having a rear switch. So I do like both of these light equally in many sense but will appreciate the FWA3vn a tiny bit more only because I am GREATLY bias to rear switch. However if we bring in the discontinued D4vn with a Ti body and Copper head then I would have to go with the D4vn. (This is the reason why I am a fan of the less popular E14vn and S03vn Quad alternatives with its copper head) Its looks and function are simply superior. Ti bezel and body keeps it lightweight yet strong to cope with rough use. The copper head/Light engine is excellent for heat sinking and is especially so if we solder bond the copper MCPCB to the copper head itself. It would be one large chuck of continuous mass to suck the heat from those over driven LEDs. So where does this leave me?

    Please give me 6000L and 60kcd in a ultra compact package, runs on 21700, has a large solid copper head with crazy thick shelf, and may be a polished Ti body. Yeah even throw in the AUX LEDs to help with business ;-). HmmmmmÖ..










    Oh and there is an ALL COPPER version too! Can't wait!
    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  18. #48

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Wow nice copper. I have the same general thoughts like you Vinh. I love the e07vn as well. But the heat sinking even on that bigger light is still not enough to handle the crazy lumens. The light gets hot quick. Now I dunno with that copper... when is that gonna be available to us?

  19. #49

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by b8llzblue View Post
    Wow nice copper. I have the same general thoughts like you Vinh. I love the e07vn as well. But the heat sinking even on that bigger light is still not enough to handle the crazy lumens. The light gets hot quick. Now I dunno with that copper... when is that gonna be available to us?
    The 20th ;-)
    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  20. #50

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    I love the E07 but itís not pocketable in dress clothes, which is what I wear 7 days a week... so I have to remain with the D4/FW3A/S03.. nothing over 30mm is acceptable sadly.

  21. #51

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyownEnergizer250lumen View Post
    I love the E07 but itís not pocketable in dress clothes, which is what I wear 7 days a week... so I have to remain with the D4/FW3A/S03.. nothing over 30mm is acceptable sadly.
    FWA3vn is the way to go then
    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  22. #52
    Flashaholic* Nichia!'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    FWA3vn is the way to go then


    There is new e07 in fully copper??

  23. #53

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by Nichia! View Post
    There is new e07 in fully copper??
    On the 20th yes
    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  24. #54

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    13. D anodized thread allow for physical lockout. F non-anodized thread = Electronic lockout only.
    The FW3A can be locked out at the head by unscrewing the head 1/8 turn.

    That 1/8 turn is enough to break the connection between the driver and the switch rendering the button inoperable.

    This isn't a true physical lockout since the driver is still powered even if the switch doesn't work so there is still parasitic drain. However, Toykeeper mentioned on BLF that the parasitic drain on the FW3A is very low ... below the self-discharge of an 18650 and would take 10 years to drain a full cell.

    In short, slightly unscrewing the head of the FW3A acts like a physical lockout even though technically it isn't one.

  25. #55

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by Fireclaw18 View Post
    The FW3A can be locked out at the head by unscrewing the head 1/8 turn.

    That 1/8 turn is enough to break the connection between the driver and the switch rendering the button inoperable.

    This isn't a true physical lockout since the driver is still powered even if the switch doesn't work so there is still parasitic drain. However, Toykeeper mentioned on BLF that the parasitic drain on the FW3A is very low ... below the self-discharge of an 18650 and would take 10 years to drain a full cell.

    In short, slightly unscrewing the head of the FW3A acts like a physical lockout even though technically it isn't one.
    Agree
    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  26. #56

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    I've been holding out for the all copper E07 version. I'm sure it will be wildly heavy and it'll burn one's hand real fast, but gotta have it.

  27. #57

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by twistedraven View Post
    I've been holding out for the all copper E07 version. I'm sure it will be wildly heavy and it'll burn one's hand real fast, but gotta have it.
    Yup All copper is non sense but gotta have one! LOL

    The Ti+ Copper should be just right for me thhough.
    Ok So I got way more use with the FW3Avn W1 and IU love it more and more. SO nice to have a tiny 18650 light with a triple that throws!!
    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  28. #58

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by vinhnguyen54 View Post
    Ok So I got way more use with the FW3Avn W1 and IU love it more and more. SO nice to have a tiny 18650 light with a triple that throws!!
    I know the two donít compare and are of different leagues, but which is more WOW IMPRESSIVE to form factor ratio? The FW3A W1 Or the Emisar D18 W1? If I could only buy one...?

  29. #59

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    Quote Originally Posted by OnlyownEnergizer250lumen View Post
    I know the two donít compare and are of different leagues, but which is more WOW IMPRESSIVE to form factor ratio? The FW3A W1 Or the Emisar D18 W1? If I could only buy one...?
    To Me...

    D18vn. D18vn one of the best flashlight ever made.
    FW3A a great flashlight. Especially so for the money. But its not one of the best ever made.
    I am happy to realize how happy I am. Thus, a chain reaction of happiness.
    SkyLumen54@gmail.com




  30. #60

    Default Re: Lumintop/TLF/BLF FW3Avn - Most Compact Triple/Quad

    I know I should care about build quality and internals... but the kid in me screams... SPECS! SPECS! SPECS! Lol. As a techy, itís hard to allow internals, reliability, and functionality to influence a purchase when youíre only in the game to experience the latest and greatest power/output/throw available at this point in time.

    Your opinion however, while it does strongly consider build quality, etc, is highly valued due to the sheer number of lights youíve worked with. Vinh likes it? I must like it too!

    FW3A might be the best size/output/throw ratio in a triple ever made to this date, right? That answer would solely determine my purchase, regardless of inconvenient UI, quality control (if I have to buy 3 because the first two break, doesnít matter Iím here for the numbers!) etc.

    I know my opinion is probably the minority, since I would imagine most flashlight enthusiasts purchase for real use purposes as opposed to white wall hunting and driving out to open fields at night to laugh and excite about performance to size ratio, unconcerned about short runtimes.

    Edit for clarification: My degenerate species is the kind who buys useless paperweight 10lb tungsten cubes for 500$ to see my coworkers in sheer amazement at how something so small (2.5x2.5x2.5) can be so insanely heavy (approximate density of gold.)
    Last edited by OnlyownEnergizer250lumen; 05-15-2019 at 10:49 AM.

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