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Thread: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

  1. #1
    Flashaholic*
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    Default My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    I like my 120lm 219a rotary very much. But just like a fancy object which I like to have but would never use. And what bothers me the most is the entire stall in innovations in critical areas. Those different emitters, different metals instead of true innovations.

    What are my critical areas:
    1. The clip for the rotary. I don't understand why it is so problematic to come up with a decent fixed two-way clip, flush with the head, like for example the one used in surefire e1/e2 series. It would certainly require the head to be redesigned, but that would be huge and I am sure make this light suitable for edc for a lot more people.
    1. 1.5V light engine. The bring you home means home from anywhere. And there are many places where aa are available and 16340 are not, but not vice versa. That is why my hds is not my travel light. For so modest output, using a 1.2/1.5v cells is not a problem anymore.

    Now I am curious if I am missing any caveats that render these improvements unreasonable?


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  2. #2
    Flashaholic CRKDMike's Avatar
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Demand is still outweighing supply for these lights. You are asking for the redesigning of critical components of the light, which means that HDS would then have to stock twice the amount of parts for warranty replacements (ie. replacement parts for revision 1 lights, and replacement parts for most recent revision lights). Inventory is $$. Also, HDS would have to pay all the costs associated with changing the drawings on their vendors. No doubt that after all of this, this price would go up on an already hefty price tag. What is the benefit if HDS is still selling like hot cakes, and the cost of changing is so high?

    Iím more curious about what happens when the individual who is integral to the design and functionality of the light, goes away. Where will that leave customers who need work done or replacements.


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  3. #3
    Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Oh Iím sure there are plans in place. Letís not put people in the ground just yet 😁
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  4. #4

    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Henry goes more than six feet under fairly frequently as I understand it...

  5. #5
    Flashaholic* emarkd's Avatar
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    I won't argue with you about the clip, there's a pretty good aftermarket option in my opinion, works for me, but I'd also like to see a better factory choice. This isn't new though, it's been in discussion for ages and I know there's ongoing work. There was a new universal prototype recently in fact, credit where credit is due.

    As for your voltage question...when did HDS start making a 1xAA battery tube? Cause you won't be squeezing an AA into the standard cr123 tube. You can get 2xAA now and it works fine, but if you're gonna try to run the light off of 1xAA you've got more problems than just driver voltage range.

    Speaking of credit where it's due, however, somewhere in this forum there's already discussion of a new driver in the works, and one feature mentioned is exactly what you're asking for - an AA tube with a driver that would work with a primary cell or a 14500 li ion. I have no idea how far along development is, but Henry may already be on it.

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    Last edited by emarkd; 05-14-2019 at 10:07 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleFrodo View Post
    Henry goes more than six feet under fairly frequently as I understand it...
    We are both going to be put in the ground this Thursday morning... how I got talked into it Iíll never know, but rum will be involved!
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  7. #7

    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Are there advancements that could be done? Sure and some are in the works.

    But, at the same time why is it wrong to do one thing really, really well and stick with it instead of branching out. The market is full of companies offering lots of options without perfecting any. While many of the really good companies work at refining the few items that they do great.

    I understand HDS with a max 325 lumen emitter and only 3 power options is not for everyone. But for what it is, it is great and does keep improving whether software, emitters, throw.

    I can understand the frustration when your needs and desires arenít part of what that company is doing, but at the same time Iíve also seen the ones who branch out and suffer because the time to develop all the others takes away from what they were doing before.

  8. #8
    Flashaholic* neutralwhite's Avatar
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    prayers for good health for Henry & Hogo, always.
    Malkoff Devices MD2 M61T, JetE17A Red AAA.

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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sos24 View Post
    But, at the same time why is it wrong to do one thing really, really well and stick with it instead of branching out. The market is full of companies offering lots of options without perfecting any. While many of the really good companies work at refining the few items that they do great.
    ^^^^^^This
    P

  10. #10
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    I very much agree that branching is bad, especially for a small brand. But the need for radical improvement of the clip for the rotary is pretty clear to me and it has nothing to do with branching. I know about the new design, it is almost the same thing, isn't it?

    I am not frustrated that I don't have what I want. I am just puzzled what has been the reason for sticking with that clip design for such a long time.


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  11. #11
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    My 2 cents. While I can no longer afford to buy sell buy sell to upgrade to that perfectly configured HDS the design is as it is (Rotary for me) more than I need in terms of brightness and function and though fairly old school in my opinion is still ahead of the competition. Another thing is, if HDS starts monkeying around to keep up with competitors and the latest because it sounds catchy rather than listening to the people who buy and use the product then it could be disappointing for us loyal hardcore fans.
    I wonít contaminate the thread with mention of competing companies but the monkeying around by others is what caused me to divert my available funds to HDS. Plus if you give HDS a reasonably good idea... it may likely make it into reality. I canít say the same for other companies.

    Regarding the aa, 16340, and 18650 yes I need aa lithium ion capability plus the 18650 rotary but so far just have the 16340 tubes and several rechargeable cells cause where I am I physically canít get cr123 batteries at all!
    Donít Tread On Me

  12. #12
    Flashaholic* RCS1300's Avatar
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    A Clip for the Rotary and a 1.5V light engine.

    I currently own 5 HDS Flashlights and I am not interested in either of the items mentioned above.

    HDS is the best in class light period. It has a superior proprietary light engine that cannot be purchased or replicated anywhere else.

    If AA is your preferred power supply, why not purchase a HDS light with the extended AA battery tube.
    Last edited by RCS1300; 05-14-2019 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Brevity

  13. #13
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    I'm just happy that Henry is as stubborn as I am and doesn't give in to every whim and fancy that is suggested to him.
    The reason I like his lights is that they are Henry's lights and he very knidly lets us have the use of them.
    I know he makes his living out of them, but the above statement still applies.
    P

  14. #14

    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    We are both going to be put in the ground this Thursday morning... how I got talked into it Iíll never know, but rum will be involved!
    Guess I wasn't invited, but only because they know I'd show up with a backhoe instead of a shovel.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    As far as my humble opinion goes, these are the most innovative lights ever. I have the non-rotary, 219 Nichia, with flush fit button. Someone here pointed me to Prometheus, and his titanium clip and I picked up one of those. That was four years ago. Before I even opened the package someone here on the forum told me wait until you use the momentary on... that changed everything, lol. The light is intuitively simple to use. That light gets so much use on a daily basis itís not even funny. Of the 15 or so lights I have, this one is in my pocket every single day. If I had access to just one light it would be this one.

  16. #16

    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Well, there is this: https://www.hdssystems.com/Content/Pioneer/

    And Henry refuses to document anywhere Candle Mode, which HDS was the first to put in a light. Won't do it because it's a gimmick.

    It's also easy to think that the light hasn't really changed in 10 years. I read this a lot on the web. There really isn't much the end user can see that has changed, so you really can't blame anyone for thinking this. Henry never publicizes or even mentions when he makes internal improvements to the light. The Rotary tail has probably averaged 5 upgrades since it came out. I don't even know how many in the head. And more are currently being worked on.

    Henry hates marketing, and I'm right there with him... Though I do think it is important to let folks know when something inside the light has changed... though often Henry won't let me! LOL!
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  17. #17
    Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Speaking on Candle Mode, is it there for a reason? I mean is it used to test or check something in the system or is it truly just a fun gimmick?
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  18. #18

    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by thermal guy View Post
    Speaking on Candle Mode, is it there for a reason? I mean is it used to test or check something in the system or is it truly just a fun gimmick?
    It happened like this... I was looking at some tealight electric candles in Henry's home one day and said to Henry "could you do this in a light?" He took the challenge. A rather interesting side note is the chip often used in those cheap tealight candles is a musical chip from greeting cards... if the candle had a speaker... you would hear a song on those electric candles.

    It is purely a gimmick. That is why we don't document it anywhere. It runs contrary to HDS philosophy, even if it is cool.
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  19. #19
    Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Always wondered how it came about. Thanks HOGO
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  20. #20
    Flashaholic* Slumber Pass's Avatar
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    I thought I saw candle mode documented as "flicker".

  21. #21

    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slumber Pass View Post
    I thought I saw candle mode documented as "flicker".
    No. Henry has never documented it. Didn't even want it on the "Pioneering Technologies" page of the website.
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  22. #22
    Flashaholic* Slumber Pass's Avatar
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    Default My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    Didn't even want it on the "Pioneering Technologies" page of the website.
    Haha!

    I saw it on the software edit history section of the FAQ page. It is, however, followed by "(undocumented)".
    Last edited by Slumber Pass; 06-24-2019 at 03:25 PM.

  23. #23

    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Yep, and he didn't call it "candle mode"
    It is as close as he will get to acknowledging it. If he didn't put it in here, it would leave everyone who knows about it confused when new software comes out and it's moved... it is also an easy way to figure out which version of software is in the light.


    • 2.10 - released December 2013 - Rotary Tactical UI, calibration, internal cleanup, drop button lockout, locator flash enable option, rotary C & D presets to strobes, arbitrary exponent logarithmic spacing (always 24 levels), minimum to 0.02 lumens, flicker mode (undocumented, 5 clicks from off).
    • 2.11 - released April 2014 - higher speed fast strobe per research studies, CCW in Tactical UI is rotary.
    • 2.12 - released October 2014 - new configurations.
    • 2.13 - released December 2014 - skipped because some think 13 is unlucky.
    • 2.14 - released January 2015 - locator flash option controls quad-click, swap A/B for Tactical UI, triple-click from off latches level for Tactical UI, flicker to 7 clicks from off.
    • 2.15 - released January 2015 - true momentary at 6 clicks from off, flicker to 9 clicks from off.
    • 2.16 - released May 2015 - true momentary when Turn On option disabled.
    • 2.17 - released May 2015 - support for L91 AA.
    • 2.18 - released February 2018 - simplify default Rotary UI, level lock to triple-click from on for Tactical UI, return option and triple-click from off for button lockout, option to enable true momentary, bicycle strobes and configuration, improved auto-off.
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  24. #24
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    Yep, and he didn't call it "candle mode"
    But it is a very well made candle mode, that would deserve this naming.
    Using my Rotary NC27 with the Fenix AOD-S diffuser gives you the romantic felling of a candle without having open fire.

    As opposite, I used to have a Philips LED garden lantern. This lantern had a very warm and nice light color, but the candle mode was more blinking and flickering, than "emulating" a candle. The candle mode on this lantern should have been named "flickering".
    Still looking for Surefire G2 in Orange.
    If you have one you don't like please PM me.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorOfLight View Post
    But it is a very well made candle mode, that would deserve this naming.
    Using my Rotary NC27 with the Fenix AOD-S diffuser gives you the romantic felling of a candle without having open fire.
    Nice. I think the candle mode is a little too bright without a diffuser. I use the patented CPF plastic bottle cap diffuser to knock off the hot spot.
    ďMay it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.Ē
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  26. #26

    Default Re: My grain of salt regarding the HDS.

    The idea is cool, but for me personally the brightness jumps in this mode are very annoying if you add at least 5 intermediate values between each jump, it would look more real, now it looks like a old garland))

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