LED lights damage eyes and disturb sleep, European health authority warns

LeanBurn

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https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/16/health/blue-light-led-health-effects-bn-trnd/index.html

From the above article:

The blue light in LED lighting that is increasingly used in our homes can damage the eye's retina while disturbing our biological and sleep rhythms, a French health authority warned in a new report.

New scientific evidence confirms the "phototoxic effects" of short-term exposures to high-intensity blue light, as well as an increased risk of age-related macular degeneration after chronic exposure to lower-intensity sources, according to the French Agency for Food, Environmental and Occupational Health & Safety, known as ANSES.

Thoughts?
 

alpg88

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who installs blue light in their homes? afaik we install white, some of them are cool white, but it is far from blue.

also cheap drivers with no proper capacitors basically strobe at frequencies of the ac line. can give you a headache, we talked about it in a different thread a while ago
 
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LeanBurn

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Usually the cooler the light in terms of tint, the more blue the light is used. It explains in the article;

"For example, "warm white" domestic LED lighting has weak phototoxicity risks, similar to traditional lighting, according to ANSES. However, other LED lighting sources, including the newest flashlights, car headlights and some toys, produce a whiter and "colder" blue light that is more harmful."
 

usdiver

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who installs blue light in their homes? afaik we install white, some of them are cool white, but it is far from blue.

also cheap drivers with no proper capacitors basically strobe at frequencies of the ac line. can give you a headache, we talked about it in a different thread a while ago

You'd be surprised at the amount of blue light we are exposed to and I ve seen may people install or have lights installed that they aren't aware of as being harmful. I ve worked in toxic lighting yet when you bring it to someone's attention they say you're not qualified to say...
I guess it takes a flashaholic to point out the differences in various lights.
 

SKV89

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who installs blue light in their homes? afaik we install white, some of them are cool white, but it is far from blue.

also cheap drivers with no proper capacitors basically strobe at frequencies of the ac line. can give you a headache, we talked about it in a different thread a while ago

5000k and above lights have majority blue spectrum wavelength. Even 4000k lights have about an equal amplitude of blue wavelength and yellow/red wavelength. 2700k and below gets a whole lot less blue wavelength. Most of the 3000k led bulbs I've tested are actually closer to 2700k. The lowest amount of blue wavelength in LED emitters I've tested is the Nichia E21A 2000k. It is about spot on 2000k, DUV about 0.000 and blue wavelength probably less than incandescent lighting.

Also it does make a difference in the time it takes for me to fall asleep when exposed to different CCT lights so I'm sure this article is legit
 

MeMeMe

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I found some of the claims a bit bizarre which makes me question the underlying assumptions, i.e. saying screens were not an issue due to the intensity being low .....not sure about you but I rarely look right into my lights. On that front direct light from blue/white LEDs has been identified as a biological hazard for over a decade.

W.r.t. high CCT lights, say 5K, if you want your pupil to close so that you have good depth of focus and things are not blurry you need blue wavelengths. Reading under 2700k light is a recipe for eye strain and is awful for detailed work.

CRI does come into play for the balance of the shortest blue wavelengths total energy. Generally supplier want to take the 450-455 blue pump and create longer wavelengths as that means more lumens.

Let's also not lose sight (pun intended) that artificial lighting levels are but a fraction of sunlight which has lots of blue and far more damaging UV.

The exposure time of car headlights where the levels are high that damage can occur is minimal so I am not sure even why it was brought up. Sure it causes discomfort glare but eye damage ... Sorry, no.

Blue light interfering with melatonin suppression and circadian rhythm has been known 2 decades now so mentioning this in the report gives it no legitimacy.
 
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usdiver

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Reading under 2700k light is a recipe for eye strain and is awful for detailed work.

Let's also not lose sight (pun intended) that artificial lighting levels are but a fraction of sunlight which has lots of blue and far more damaging UV.

2700k depends on the brightness but 2700 is typically pleasing to the eyes however it's not my favorite.

Regarding the sunlight, we were born with natural filters and means in our eyes to deal with uv light from the sun. It's natural and though bright isn't pleasant you will not have uv damage to the eyes unless you're looking straight at it. Man made uv however is a totally different animal and it can mess you up.

Blue light, (the kind from screens, poorly made led panels, etc) obviously man made can mess you up too and you don't have to look directly at it for it to give you a problem.

Just sayin
 

MeMeMe

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2700k depends on the brightness but 2700 is typically pleasing to the eyes however it's not my favorite.

Regarding the sunlight, we were born with natural filters and means in our eyes to deal with uv light from the sun. It's natural and though bright isn't pleasant you will not have uv damage to the eyes unless you're looking straight at it. Man made uv however is a totally different animal and it can mess you up.

Blue light, (the kind from screens, poorly made led panels, etc) obviously man made can mess you up too and you don't have to look directly at it for it to give you a problem.

Just sayin

- You need massive amounts of 2700K before you properly stimulate your iPRG cells, and would require well .... as much blue as just going with less total amount of cooler light. 2700 is pleasing at low lighting levels.

- Nope, no filters that work different for the sun or the blue from LEDs. Light is light. Ditto for UV ... man made or not, it all depends on the spectrum. You tend not to look right into man-made UV lights either. Sunlight, room lights, screen ... blue is blue.
 

usdiver

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[h=1]The blue light from your LED screen isn't hurting your eyes[/h]
https://qz.com/1620931/blue-lights-from-led-screens-do-not-hurt-your-eyes/
[h=2]Do LED lights hurt your eyes?[/h]In the vast majority of cases, no.

This article is interesting but also misleading. They aren't talking about the level of blue light and yes it CAN cause damage ie: led panel in the ceiling, 1350 lumens @ 3000k for example and you're sitting under it for a length of time. 3000k is considered neutral but this gives me a headache and isn't pleasant. Boost that up to 1500 lumens @ 4000 k, 5000 k which doesn't sound that unreasonable but this is too intense now boost it up to the same lumens at 6000 k and you've got a problem of you're exposed to that for 8 hours a day. It's worse than the computer screen.
I've read articles and looked into this but there are dangers however it's really some. If a light is doing you harm you'll have the warnings or should have as it's not easy on those pretty greens (eyes I'm talking about)
[emoji4]
 

MeMeMe

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This article is interesting but also misleading. They aren't talking about the level of blue light and yes it CAN cause damage ie: led panel in the ceiling, 1350 lumens @ 3000k for example and you're sitting under it for a length of time. 3000k is considered neutral but this gives me a headache and isn't pleasant. Boost that up to 1500 lumens @ 4000 k, 5000 k which doesn't sound that unreasonable but this is too intense now boost it up to the same lumens at 6000 k and you've got a problem of you're exposed to that for 8 hours a day. It's worse than the computer screen.
I've read articles and looked into this but there are dangers however it's really some. If a light is doing you harm you'll have the warnings or should have as it's not easy on those pretty greens (eyes I'm talking about)
[emoji4]

What type of panel in the ceiling do you mean? Is this home or work?

If it is work, it is not 1300 or 1500 lumens, it is likely 2*2 feet, or 600*600mm and 3500-4000 lumens. It is almost most likely 4000K, by far the most popular for lighting in much of the world for commercial, though you see a lot of 5000K in Asia.

It's not the 3000K or 4000, etc. giving you a headache or being unpleasant, it's highly likely it's a low cost implementation and it has high flicker. If you are in an office, I am not a fan of the new flat panels that are all the rage. They can have high glare, thought most LCD screens are fairly glare resistant unlike old CRTs.

Standard 80-85 CRI, Tri-phosphor fluorescent tubes also have a lot of blue too. It's like these people have suddenly discovered LED lighting and want to come across as relevant, when they are mainly being pedantic and not terribly informative.
 

MeMeMe

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TechGuru

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What type of panel in the ceiling do you mean? Is this home or work?

If it is work, it is not 1300 or 1500 lumens, it is likely 2*2 feet, or 600*600mm and 3500-4000 lumens. It is almost most likely 4000K, by far the most popular for lighting in much of the world for commercial, though you see a lot of 5000K in Asia.

It's not the 3000K or 4000, etc. giving you a headache or being unpleasant, it's highly likely it's a low cost implementation and it has high flicker. If you are in an office, I am not a fan of the new flat panels that are all the rage. They can have high glare, thought most LCD screens are fairly glare resistant unlike old CRTs.

Standard 80-85 CRI, Tri-phosphor fluorescent tubes also have a lot of blue too. It's like these people have suddenly discovered LED lighting and want to come across as relevant, when they are mainly being pedantic and not terribly informative.

I've found a good way to test for the existence of light flicker is by recording some 240FPS high speed video with a smart phone.
 

usdiver

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The numbers were from a panel in an apartment but though they are unpleasant and I don't like em they don't cause problems, the one that gave me headaches was at work and I had to wear a hat to keep the glare out of my eyes. It was a 3'x3' and definitely above 5k very intense... and yes cheap implementation by someone who didn't understand what the problem was... but they didn't work under this light for hours at a time either
On my pc I have the color turned down as well as my iPhone and no problems
 

Mark Anthony

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Personally I have found the danger caused by cool white LED's was mainly in my sleep cycle. I didn't know it was happening but lack of solid sleep was driving me nuts and messing with my health. Now I avoid any cool white lights/blue LED screen tints in the evening and all is much better.

I do worry that cities trying to save money will switch out their street lights with LED's of the wrong tint that will have subtle effects on a population.
 

usdiver

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Personally I have found the danger caused by cool white LED's was mainly in my sleep cycle. I didn't know it was happening but lack of solid sleep was driving me nuts and messing with my health. Now I avoid any cool white lights/blue LED screen tints in the evening and all is much better.

I do worry that cities trying to save money will switch out their street lights with LED's of the wrong tint that will have subtle effects on a population.

I wonder if this is why I m sleeping better now too? Hadn't really thought about it but makes sense.

Regarding cities, it's already happening everywhere, too bright, crap tint, very unpleasant. They don't realize if the drop the tint color they can also decrease the output as you can see better. I have several lights from one company ranging from 4k with a Nichia 219b, 219c at 5700, xpg3 at 5k and xpg2 at 6000 give or take. All between 200 - 325 lumens and they all have no adverse affect on the eyes.
 

TechGuru

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Regarding cities, it's already happening everywhere, too bright, crap tint, very unpleasant. They don't realize if the drop the tint color they can also decrease the output as you can see better.

I'm forced to use yellow tint clip on lenses on my glasses when driving in areas like that.
 

alpg88

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I'm forced to use yellow tint clip on lenses on my glasses when driving in areas like that.
i use those yellow glasses too, very helpful, oncoming lights, even thou still bright, do not bother me nearly as much.
 

alpg88

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there is lots of blue light in tv screen, when you look as someones window, who has lights off and tv on, it looks blue, lately tvs got bigger and brighter, maybe it has more to do with sleep pattern disorder, we also watch more tv now than ever. i wonder if studies took that into account
 
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