Aux. Driving Lights for ski car - Hella 4000i HID paired w/ amber fog?

J.J. McClure

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Subaru Outback 2013 is our northeast w/e cruiser to ski country (Vermont and Eastern Canada). Driving is open highway to backroads to snow-cover/snowing terrain 200 - 700 mi trips). Looking for high quality, long range light that I won't outrun at 80mph+ on open straights (& deer avoidance) and a separate pair for slower and snowy, reflective terrain. I've had my eye on the Hella 4000 HID Eurobeams (discontinued?) - mounting will be a PITA - (the 4000s Compact easier with a SSD bar). Then pairing with some smaller, amber-tinted fog lights. I currently have the JW Speaker 8700 J2 in my Jeep Wrangler - happy w/ the upgrade - but looking for something far more impactful for this purpose. Would greatly appreciate any input and I would be happy to follow-up after the project is finished if helpful.
 

-Virgil-

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Welcome to the board.

Think differently about lights for the 'roo than for the Jeep. Fine to mount big clunky lights to a Jeep...difficult and problematic on a modern passenger car. Forget HID (sort of the automotive equivalent of compact-fluorescent bulbs we had to use while we waited for LED technology to mature). Instead of Hella 4000s, get this and you'll have a whole lot easier time (and safer result both for pedestrians and for passengers sitting behind frontal airbags) and get a good result. That light bar is made for Hella by JW Speaker.

As for the other pair: before you go shopping for fog lamps, goose the headlamps. It looks (see here) like there's finally movement on Dan Stern's efforts to bring 65w/2100-lumen H7 bulbs back to market; you might write and get on his list for being notified when they come in. That's a cheap, easy, and very effective upgrade for the low beams. High beams can be likewise upgraded with HIR1 bulbs (just trim one of the base tabs like this). Also, spend the time and pay the money to get a perfect aim job on the headlamps and any aux lights you might put in.

There are already fog lamps on the '13 Outback, as standard equipment. They might not be the world's best, but they're about as useful (and about as useless) as most fog lamps; see here. There are certainly better fog lamps. Tough to get good yellow ones, though not completely impossible.

(be mindful of the difference between amber, which is not appropriate for fog lamps, and selective yellow which is).
 

J.J. McClure

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Thank you for all of that info Virgil, and the quick reply. I will look into the above. The first link to Dan Stern's 65w/2100 did not work - would love to take a look at that.
 

Alaric Darconville

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Thank you for all of that info Virgil, and the quick reply. I will look into the above. The first link to Dan Stern's 65w/2100 did not work - would love to take a look at that.

Link works for me (maybe it was a transient thing and now works for you).

Daniel Stern LightingH7 Bulbs
These single-filament bulbs are found in the low beams, high beams and fog lamps of many European and Japanese vehicles made since the 1990s. Fun Fact: The H7, introduced in 1993, was the first new halogen headlamp bulb design type-approved to Europe's Regulation 37 in twenty years. It touched off a wave of research and development that saw a dozen new halogen bulb types introduced over the next 15 years.

65W Osram Ultra High Output (2100 lumen, H9 burner on H7 base, race and special-purpose use):
Osram discontinued this bulb several years ago, and all stocks have been exhausted—there are some poor-quality counterfeits flushing around, but those don't count. Update, May 13 2019: After a great deal of work, I have secured new availability of first-quality, German-made 65w - 2100 lumen H7 bulbs. They are presently being manufactured and I expect to have them on shelf in June.

Front fog lamps are nice and all (when they're not light-shaped toys), but a rear fog lamp is much more useful.

Looking for high quality, long range light that I won't outrun at 80mph+ on open straights (& deer avoidance)
Conditions requiring headlamps, particularly when wildlife is expected on the roadway, are conditions that do not permit 80mph+ cruising.
 

-Virgil-

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Yup, driving beam. The bulb link works for me (last night and this morning too), what happens when you click it? Alaric's also got a great point about rear fog lamps; see here if you're not familiar with them.
 

J.J. McClure

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Yup, driving beam. The bulb link works for me (last night and this morning too), what happens when you click it? Alaric's also got a great point about rear fog lamps; see here if you're not familiar with them.
The link works on my Mac, not my phone for some reason. My reference to "Fog Lights" was not accurate. What I meant was a separate light for the snow - maybe the foglight is the answer in any case. The rear fog lights are interesting, had not heard of that. Great forum, I appreciate the insights.
 

XeRay

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Forget HID (sort of the automotive equivalent of compact-fluorescent bulbs we had to use while we waited for LED technology to mature).

Is that really a fair statement for a "pencil beam" ? Pretty hard (not impossible ) to collimate the light for significant distances with LED, still much easier technologically to accomplish with HID for that application.
We are coming out with a high performance LED unit for aviation primarily and some other applications such as desert racing and other specialized applications. This product is about 6 years in development. The main issue has been heat management to maintain full output at high power levels. We have that issue well covered also.
 

Alaric Darconville

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Is that really a fair statement for a "pencil beam" ? Pretty hard (not impossible ) to collimate the light for significant distances with LED, still much easier technologically to accomplish with HID for that application.
Still a fair statement for HID in general. Automotive HID : Automotive LED :: Household Compact Fluorescent : Household LED
LEDs are not only improving in luminous efficacy, their luminance (in cd/m²) is also improving greatly.
 

-Virgil-

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Is that really a fair statement for a "pencil beam" ?

Yes, it is.

Pretty hard (not impossible ) to collimate the light for significant distances with LED

No, it isn't. One example that springs to mind is Myotek's PAR46 (5-3/4" diameter) 32w 9-emitter LED spot light, sold by Unity as their Z-8547 (lamp only, for use in any PAR46 mount/housing) or AGR-8547 in a marine-spec chrome housing. It gives a tight, well-focused spot with long-term intensity of 215,000 candela (almost 3x the intensity limit on a roadgoing vehicle's high beam headlamps in the US). And that's an "old" example, in context of the speed of LED evolution.

still much easier technologically to accomplish with HID for that application.

I don't agree...and neither does most of the industry, seemingly. They're developing and marketing good LED spot lights left, right and center. And we're also seeing laser-based spot lights that act like they will almost start grass fires.
 

Hilldweller

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Thanks for the suggestion, I will review these.
If the link gets funny on you, they're the LP9 Pro. The Racer series is really really bright but are a pencil beam. Great if you're haring around at 160 mph on a track. The Pro series is sick enough as it is. I saw them light up the side of a mountain with them.
 
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J.J. McClure

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I like these a lot. Any idea how these compare to the Hella 4000i LED and the compact version, in particular the distance stats? My one concern with the LP9 Pro (and others) is the amount of light it broadcasts close to the vehicle - so driving 80mph, I don't want the light too close. I'm likely limited on the space behind the lights, but these may fit.
 

Hilldweller

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I like these a lot. Any idea how these compare to the Hella 4000i LED and the compact version, in particular the distance stats? My one concern with the LP9 Pro (and others) is the amount of light it broadcasts close to the vehicle - so driving 80mph, I don't want the light too close. I'm likely limited on the space behind the lights, but these may fit.
They flat-out murder the Hellas. Murder.
Not sure about foreground lighting from them ---- which, frankly, would be more of a problem if they didn't shine so far. I think they claim more than a mile and I believe them.
We lit up the side of a mountain from across a lake with them. You could see the faces of people on the mountain, even from that distance.
The light looked like it had good control to it (unlike the ARB things that just light up like football stadium floodlights).
For what they cost I'd think you'd have some sort of love-it or leave-it warranty...?

I want a pair but I have absolutely no practical need for them. I have a set of 3500 lm LEDs facing forward and a pair of 1000 lm cubes pointed sideways for offroad. And since my speeds offroad at night are about 15 mph, they're even excessive.
 

J.J. McClure

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Beautiful, the light bar that Virgil suggested is probably sufficient for what I need but if I can fit these... thanks everyone for all of the info
 

Hilldweller

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Beautiful, the light bar that Virgil suggested is probably sufficient for what I need but if I can fit these... thanks everyone for all of the info
They also have the laser lights that Virgil loves so much. Frickin lasers. Very narrow 1.5 degree spread for high speed driving. Flatland stuff. The beam goes for miles. Pure insanity.

This kind of lighting pornography is only limited by your house ways and means committee these days. My wife would find an artery in my neck very quickly...
 
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