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Thread: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

  1. #1

    Default $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Hi guys,
    I recently posted about looking for a tactical light for my wife and myself. After reading further, I believe I know what we need. Hope to hear your suggestions:

    Budget: $150 each, may go up if the light offers more
    Battery: USB rechargeable
    Output: Single-output
    Lumen count: 1,000+
    Use duration: 1hr + (full battery to dead battery at 1,000+ lumens: 1hr +)
    Click: 1 tail button for on/off switch and momentary light
    Quality: Tough (we want to buy it once and use it for years), water/splash proof
    Length: 7 in or less

    Currently, only the Surefire Fury DFT meets all of this. However, I read that it gets so hot after 5 minutes I can’t hold it. My question now is how I can deal with this, and how long I should expect to be able to hold the light.

    Hope to hear from you.

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* Dave D's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    What tactical situation are you planning for that requires 1000+ lumens for 1 hour +?

  3. #3
    Flashaholic* Tejasandre's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Zombies

  4. #4
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    How is this different from your other thread ?
    ... is the archimedes peak

  5. #5

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Elzetta Bones. Starts at 650. Stays at 650. On/off. That's it. Near silent clicky with momentary. Elzetta tough.
    3 distinct beams in one. 100 yard capable retina scorcher center spot, wider spot lights up a football field goal post. Wide dispersed spill lights up said football field side line to side line.

    Others start at 1000 or more and soon after drop to....
    650.

    Can use 18650 if you choose as well.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 06-05-2019 at 03:04 PM.
    John 3:16

  6. #6

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Elzetta Bones. Starts at 650. Stays at 650. On/off. That's it. Near silent clicky with momentary. Elzetta tough.
    3 distinct beams in one. 100 yard capable retina scorcher center spot, wider spot lights up a football field goal post. Wide dispersed spill lights up said football field side line to side line.

    Others start at 1000 or more and soon after drop to....
    650.



    Can use 18650 if you choose as well.


    If you absolutely need 1,000 lumens or 900+ for an hour then an Elzetta Charlie will work. It is going to use CR123A cells though, not rechargeable and no USB. Someone might be willing to bore it out to accept 18mm cells for you.

    I really don't notice that much when my Surefire P3X drops from 1,000 lumens to 650 lumens after a few minutes. Our eyes do not work that way. Also, if you want the 1,000 lumens, you can just hit the tailcap again on the P3X for the full 1,000 plus lumens.

    I would just get the Elzetta Bones and charge the cells myself, If I needed or wanted rechargeable lights.
    Last edited by CREEXHP70LED; 06-05-2019 at 05:43 PM.

  7. #7

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Malkoff Wildcat will do this and with 2 18650s but no in light charging which you really do not want anyway in a light like this.

    Great light,Great maker,Just Great!

  8. #8

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave D View Post
    What tactical situation are you planning for that requires 1000+ lumens for 1 hour +?
    Just want something that works and is worth the money, since the area we have to travel through every night is sketchy.

  9. #9

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    How is this different from your other thread ?
    In the other thread, I was open to multi-mode, side-button flashlights, thinking I may make use of it. This post is firmly on single output, single tail button for both of us.

    Furthermore, in this thread I also wish to ask about thermal and work-around.

    I'm new here, so if this thread is off limit, just delete it. Thanks to everyone that provided input!

  10. #10

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Elzetta Bones. Starts at 650. Stays at 650. On/off. That's it. Near silent clicky with momentary. Elzetta tough.
    3 distinct beams in one. 100 yard capable retina scorcher center spot, wider spot lights up a football field goal post. Wide dispersed spill lights up said football field side line to side line.

    Others start at 1000 or more and soon after drop to....
    650.

    Can use 18650 if you choose as well.
    Got it! I'll put that name down to research. Thanks!

  11. #11

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by CREEXHP70LED View Post
    If you absolutely need 1,000 lumens or 900+ for an hour then an Elzetta Charlie will work. It is going to use CR123A cells though, not rechargeable and no USB. Someone might be willing to bore it out to accept 18mm cells for you.

    I really don't notice that much when my Surefire P3X drops from 1,000 lumens to 650 lumens after a few minutes. Our eyes do not work that way. Also, if you want the 1,000 lumens, you can just hit the tailcap again on the P3X for the full 1,000 plus lumens.

    I see. Can you explain how hitting the tailcap of the P3X again would bring back 1,000 lumens? How does that work?

    Thanks for the input!

    I would just get the Elzetta Bones and charge the cells myself, If I needed or wanted rechargeable lights.

  12. #12

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by AVService View Post
    Malkoff Wildcat will do this and with 2 18650s but no in light charging which you really do not want anyway in a light like this.

    Great light,Great maker,Just Great!
    "In light charging" as in "USB charging"? I did some more reading after this and others say it's better to charge the batteries themselves to keep the waterproofing intact. I guess you share that point.

    I haven't found reviews of the Wildcat V6, only the MD3. Are there any significant differences?

  13. #13
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    I’ll second Mr Bykfixer with his Elzetta recommendation, I have a couple of these and they’re top notch. 650 lumens will do you fine I reckon. I use the Elzetta Bravo with 16650 batteries, but you’ll have more capacity with the 18650 if you go with the Bones. Advantage of the Bravo is you can get a hi/low tail cap if you think you need a low level sometimes.

    I also use Malkoff lights. I don’t run a single 18650 version, but I’d be surprised if they’re not useful to you. They come in some quite intense variations. I use the MD3 and MD4 bodies but you may find these a bit large if you want to carry in a pocket or handbag.

    You’ll need a stand-alone charger (or batteries with a USB port built in, maybe) for both but you’ll have a reliable, durable light with excellent customer service support if you ever need it.

  14. #14

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    There are a few advantages with using a charger as opposed to in light charging to me.
    -There is the already mentioned better waterproofing of the light
    -External Chargers will usually do a better job charging the batteries and also be much faster than the in light charging will be.
    -You will actually sort of "Get to know" your batteries this way too which is always a good thing especially if you will be using more than one at a time in the light.

    The Malkoff designations of MD2,MD3,MD4 refer to the length of the body tube of the light and the number or CR123 size batteries they can hold so you would want an MD2 for a single 18650 or an MD4 for a 2-18650 light if using the rechargeable 18650 batteries which will give you the best run time for the light.
    2-CR123 are the length of an 18650 battery.

    Then Malkoff makes 2 really high output heads for these bodies generally speaking.

    The Hound Dog & The Wildcat and there should be plenty to read about these here by searching a bit.
    I have a Hound Dog and it is pretty amazing and I have a lot of lights to compare it too for sure!

    They also make 2 series of lights that rely on a Light Engine Drop-In known as a "P60" that is a ready to go,fully potted Drop-In modular platform to build a light the way that you want one which is a standard developed for the Light Industry years ago I think by Surefire.
    These Lights are the MD and MDC Series and they are equally impressive and well designed but a little easier to pocket and carry and usually not as high in output as the other two.

    There is such a crazy wide selection of them for sale now though that it is probably a good idea to spend a few minutes looking at the Malkoff site to get an idea of the options too.

    The Malkoff are designed for Police and severe duty use and it is clear from the moment you pick one up that this is the case.

    Buy Once,Cry Once as they say!

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    "In light charging" as in "USB charging"? I did some more reading after this and others say it's better to charge the batteries themselves to keep the waterproofing intact. I guess you share that point.

    I haven't found reviews of the Wildcat V6, only the MD3. Are there any significant differences?
    Last edited by AVService; 06-06-2019 at 06:47 AM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    In the other thread, I was open to multi-mode, side-button flashlights, thinking I may make use of it. This post is firmly on single output, single tail button for both of us.

    Furthermore, in this thread I also wish to ask about thermal and work-around.

    I'm new here, so if this thread is off limit, just delete it. Thanks to everyone that provided input!
    The point of these threads is the discussion, so if your criteria change or evolve slightly during the discussion, please just continue without creating another entirely new thread.

    It is confusing to have multiple similar or nearly identical threads running concurrently.

    I'll close that one for now, and you can continue here.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  16. #16

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Also note that Streamlight Pro Tac lights can be programmed by half press the tail cap 9 times and click a tenth time (called ten tap) to become a high only flashlight.
    John 3:16

  17. #17
    Flashaholic* Dave D's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    Just want something that works and is worth the money, since the area we have to travel through every night is sketchy.
    Have a look at the Surefire Tactician, always comes on in high mode unless you loosen the head.

    It will run on 2 x CR123's or a 16650 rechargeable battery.

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...fire-tactician

  18. #18

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    The point of these threads is the discussion, so if your criteria change or evolve slightly during the discussion, please just continue without creating another entirely new thread.

    It is confusing to have multiple similar or nearly identical threads running concurrently.

    I'll close that one for now, and you can continue here.
    Thank you!

  19. #19

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Also note that Streamlight Pro Tac lights can be programmed by half press the tail cap 9 times and click a tenth time (called ten tap) to become a high only flashlight.
    Got it! I’ll look into it! Thanks!

  20. #20

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by Dave D View Post
    Have a look at the Surefire Tactician, always comes on in high mode unless you loosen the head.

    It will run on 2 x CR123's or a 16650 rechargeable battery.

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...fire-tactician
    I did, the high output is 900 lm IIRC, not much less than our 1,000 lm desire. It’s just that we’re spending a good chunk, we’d try to get the most out of it. However, thank you for the suggestion!

  21. #21

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    I did, the high output is 900 lm IIRC, not much less than our 1,000 lm desire. It’s just that we’re spending a good chunk, we’d try to get the most out of it. However, thank you for the suggestion!


    You will never notice the difference in 800 lumens to 1,000 lumens. There is two reasons for this:

    1. Our eyes do not perceive light linearly. 2,000 lumens does not look twice as bright as 1,000 lumens. On average it would take about 4,000 lumens to look twice as bright at 1,000 lumens sometimes even more. (At the same candela).

    2. The second reason being is simple. Brightness (which is measured by candela) the higher the candela, the brighter the hot spot is in the center of the beam. For instance a 1,100 lumen Malkoff V6 Wildcat will light up a VERY wide area giving you very good situational awareness (It's candela is very low about 5,200 for the neutral version). However, 1,100 lumens from another light might seem MUCH brighter if the candela is higher. With the candela being higher, your going to have a more narrow beam that is more intense. Candela plays a huge part in what you actually see with your light and how far it travels. I have a 1,200 lumen light that has a 1,000 meter throw and 250,000 candela. I also have a 1,100 lumen light (the Malkoff V6 Wildcat) with about 60 meters of throw and as mentioned only 5,200 candela. They both have the same amount of light, but one I can see well for maybe 60 meters everything around me, the other one I can actually see people clearly at over 600 meters.

    You asked how the P3X brings back the 1,000 lumens after it drops to the 600-650 range. One of the engineers that worked on the light said that they programmed it to step down to 600-650 after a few minutes to run cooler, but if you wanted the full 1,000 again all you need to do is turn it off then back on. I do see a slight difference when doing this, but like I said 650-1000 lumens is not that much difference even at the same candela from the same light.

    I think 2 Elzetta Bones and 4 18650's with a charger will set you straight and they will last you a lifetime.

    Here is a video explaining and showing the difference candela can make:


  22. #22

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Ah, thank you! I'll have to watch the clip later since I'm on mobile. Some follow-up questions:
    1) I understand I won't notice the difference between 800 lms and 1000 lms. Would there be any difference if I used 800 or 1000 lm to temporarily blind someone for my defense? I ask because when we say I won't notice the difference, we also know that I stand behind the light source, not in front of it.

    2) I believe what you're referring to when comparing the 1200 lm, 250000 candela light and the one with 1100 lm, 5200 candela is the difference between throw, higher with HI LED, and flood/spill, higher with HD LED. Is it correct? And what light is the 1200lm, 250000 candela you have?

    3) Would I be able to notice the difference between 1,000 lm and 1,500 lm? Your example uses 800 vs 1000, a 200 lm difference, while this one is 500 lm difference, so I'd like to understand better how this works.

    4) Using the same power source, would a 1500 lm drain significantly more than the 1000? And by how much?

    5) The Wildcat V6 claims 1500 lm continuously OTF. Does this mean the light remains at 1500 lm, or vrey close to this value, until the batteries can no longer sustain it?

    I know this is long, so I'd really appreciate any input.

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

  23. #23
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    I’ll give you a little input. If you think a 1000 Lumen light is going to stop a bad guy you are wrong. Even with dark adapted eyes if they were coming in your direction and you shine a light you are still in that direction. They won’t hit the ground writhing in pain. There are better self defense tools. Implement one. Good luck in your search for a light.
    hunter, fisherman, flashlight enthusiast

  24. #24

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Appreciate the input!

    The light is more of a pro-active self defense approach, i.e. surrounding scanning. Should the worst happen, I only expect it to distract, or startle the assailant momentarily so that we have a bit of window to escape. I don't expect more than that.

    That said, if the light is not bright enough, the above purpose is unlikely possible, which washes away the point of the light.

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

  25. #25
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    There was a member called @TEEJ who posted a lot of explanations and discussion about these topics, in an easy-to-understand style, but hasn't been around in a while.

    You may want to start by reading this thread ...

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ux-Explanation

    ... and then, if you are still interested in more details (especially regarding "tactical" applications) , perhaps search some of his other posts and threads.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  26. #26

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    There was a member called @TEEJ who posted a lot of explanations and discussion about these topics, in an easy-to-understand style, but hasn't been around in a while.

    You may want to start by reading this thread ...

    https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ux-Explanation

    ... and then, if you are still interested in more details (especially regarding "tactical" applications) , perhaps search some of his other posts and threads.
    Great! Thanks man!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  27. #27

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    Ah, thank you! I'll have to watch the clip later since I'm on mobile. Some follow-up questions:
    1) I understand I won't notice the difference between 800 lms and 1000 lms. Would there be any difference if I used 800 or 1000 lm to temporarily blind someone for my defense? I ask because when we say I won't notice the difference, we also know that I stand behind the light source, not in front of it.

    2) I believe what you're referring to when comparing the 1200 lm, 250000 candela light and the one with 1100 lm, 5200 candela is the difference between throw, higher with HI LED, and flood/spill, higher with HD LED. Is it correct? And what light is the 1200lm, 250000 candela you have?

    3) Would I be able to notice the difference between 1,000 lm and 1,500 lm? Your example uses 800 vs 1000, a 200 lm difference, while this one is 500 lm difference, so I'd like to understand better how this works.

    4) Using the same power source, would a 1500 lm drain significantly more than the 1000? And by how much?

    5) The Wildcat V6 claims 1500 lm continuously OTF. Does this mean the light remains at 1500 lm, or vrey close to this value, until the batteries can no longer sustain it?

    I know this is long, so I'd really appreciate any input.

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk


    1. That completely depends on the candela of the light. An 800 lumen light could blind someone temporarily more than a 1,000 lumen light if it has more candela and you hit them directly in the eyes with it.

    2. Not sure what you mean by the HI LED and the HD LED. However, The 1,200 lumen light is a Olight M3XS-UT.

    3. If you had the the same light with the same reflector or TIR side by side, you could tell a small amount of difference from 1,000 lumens to 1,500 lumens but not by much.

    4. Those figures will depend on several things. Emitter type, some are more efficient than others. Drivers too some are buck, boost, FET. Too many variables, but if your asking (comparing) the same emitter and same cell, same driver, same body, same tailcap, etc. yes 1,500 lumens should pull more current than 1,000 lumens and thus deplete the energy faster, by how much, that depends on the above.

    5.The Cool White Wildcat V6 is going to run like this, with the listed cell. At 1.5 hours your still at 1,200 lumens with 2 18650's
    Last edited by CREEXHP70LED; 06-06-2019 at 08:27 PM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    This is the V6 wildcat Neutral vs the Cool White Graph.

  29. #29

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by CREEXHP70LED View Post

    2. Not sure what you mean by the HI LED and the HD LED. However, The 1,200 lumen light is a Olight M3XS-UT.

    3. If you had the the same light with the same reflector or TIR side by side, you could tell a small amount of difference from 1,000 lumens to 1,500 lumens but not by much.
    2. The HI is "High Intensity" LED, and the HD is "High Density" LED.

    3. What is the TIR you're referring to?

  30. #30

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    2. The HI is "High Intensity" LED, and the HD is "High Density" LED.

    3. What is the TIR you're referring to?


    Yes the Olight uses a throwy XP-L (dedomed) LED and the Wildcat uses a non throwy XHP-50 LED.

    Lights usually either use a reflector to direct the light, or a TIR optic. TIR stands for Total Internal Reflection and is usually made of acrylic.

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