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Thread: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

  1. #31
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    3) Would I be able to notice the difference between 1,000 lm and 1,500 lm? Your example uses 800 vs 1000, a 200 lm difference, while this one is 500 lm difference, so I'd like to understand better how this works.
    It's entirely proportional rather than linear, the difference between an 800 and 1000 is the same as the difference between 400 and 500, 200 - 250.
    Don't get too hung up on lumen figures, it's a manufacturer driven thing to sell us the latest lights.
    I have a Wildcat (1300 ish) is and an HDS (170). The hotspot from the HDS is brighter than the hotspot of the Wildcat.
    It's like shooting gunshot out of a funnel or down a tube. The funnel covers a large area, the tube pushes further over a tight spot.
    Back to my Cornflakes....
    P
    Peter's shopping list:- HDS / Oveready 170N Exec/LE and an Oveready V4 Nichia Drop In. Otherwise I'm content. Want want want, that's me.

  2. #32

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Thanks!
    In general, is it correct to say a light with high candela (light intensity) can blind people more easily? For surrounding scanning, a flood light is better; for blinding, and scanning far away, a throw light, of which the distance depends on the light intensity measured in candela, has a more decisive impact?

  3. #33

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    It's entirely proportional rather than linear, the difference between an 800 and 1000 is the same as the difference between 400 and 500, 200 - 250.
    Don't get too hung up on lumen figures, it's a manufacturer driven thing to sell us the latest lights.
    I have a Wildcat (1300 ish) is and an HDS (170). The hotspot from the HDS is brighter than the hotspot of the Wildcat.
    It's like shooting gunshot out of a funnel or down a tube. The funnel covers a large area, the tube pushes further over a tight spot.
    Back to my Cornflakes....
    P
    Yup, I should have got these basic concepts down before trying to find a light. I read to understand throw vs flood, but didn't know about lux, lumen, or candela.

  4. #34

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Also, does the luminous intensity remain the same or very close to rated value until the batteries can no longer sustain it?

  5. #35
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    Thanks!
    In general, is it correct to say a light with high candela (light intensity) can blind people more easily? For surrounding scanning, a flood light is better; for blinding, and scanning far away, a throw light, of which the distance depends on the light intensity measured in candela, has a more decisive impact?
    I'm ducking that one, with excuse that CPF doesn't like discussions about using lights to hurt people.

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    Also, does the luminous intensity remain the same or very close to rated value until the batteries can no longer sustain it?
    Depends on the Driver. Some drivers maintain a steady output and then nothing. Some do a steady output followed by a slow taper. Some taper off from switch on. Most of the "Turbo" lights can only maintain the output for minutes, then drop down to a lower level. You pays your money and takes your choice.
    P
    Peter's shopping list:- HDS / Oveready 170N Exec/LE and an Oveready V4 Nichia Drop In. Otherwise I'm content. Want want want, that's me.

  6. #36

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    I'm ducking that one, with excuse that CPF doesn't like discussions about using lights to hurt people.

    Depends on the Driver. Some drivers maintain a steady output and then nothing. Some do a steady output followed by a slow taper. Some taper off from switch on. Most of the "Turbo" lights can only maintain the output for minutes, then drop down to a lower level. You pays your money and takes your choice.
    P
    I really hope nobody thinks I want to use these lights to actively do harm. They're mainly for scanning the surroundings, and if really unfortunate, to buy us enough time to escape. My wife and I go home late every night on a sketchy route through a sketchy neighborhood. We try our best to stay close to the driver, and look around when walking. The lights will hopefully aid in that effort.

    How can I tell one driver from another? Can you show me where to read on it?

  7. #37
    Flashaholic* Dave D's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    No offence but I think that you are overthinking it.

    You don't need a 1000 lumen flashlight to illuminate your walk home, 15 will do that, but if you have a dual model you can click to high.

    Surefire G2X Max Vision has 15/800 lumens, is more compact than their other G2 sized lights and will run on a 16650 rechargeable battery or 2 x CR123's.

    https://www.surefire.com/illuminatio...ax-vision.html

    Available from Optics Planet for $92.99.

  8. #38

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    I guess you have a point.

    Thanks for the suggestion! I'll look for more details on this model.

    Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

  9. #39

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Folks who know this hobby well tend to toss around terms and phrases. TIR for example. In laymans terms that is a method used to "magnify" a lights output. Think megaphone. Yes, usually a clear poly material shaped to suit a given characteristic of a beam. Yes the actual shaped and size of the LED used can play a role as well.

    Candella number is a way we use here to know without actually seeing the beam just how far it can throw the light.

    If you need to scan a vast area such as a football field width or a warehouse the spill also plays a role. The reach of a light has the potential to create more reaction time. Say a perp is 75 feet away, then yes 600 plus lumens concentrated mainly forward will surprise said perp allowing a good amount of time to flee. But what if say, 75 feet to the left the perp has an accomplice your high candella light did not spot? That's where a beam tailored for a wee bit more spill is handy.

    Often times companies like Streamlight or Pelican (or Elzetta) will add to the spill when increasing lumens from one model or the other.

    Now one thing that hasn't been mentioned is tint. Not because you feel sympathy for the perp so you want to surprise them with a kinder colored beam. No, it's so your eyes don't get overwhelmed by your own light. Tint is expressed in Kelvin. 6500 kelvin would an extremely intense white beam. 5400 somewhat yellow or green. Less intense but still affective. 600+ lumens of a 4400 kelvin beam would send out a light that would cause sudden change in a perps pupils to occur without you the user to have to squint your own self.

    Amount of free lumens plays a role too. Light pollution. It's not light enough to see in the distance friend or foe, but enough to see your own hand. That versus mountain darkness plays a role in which tint is ideal. In free lumen scenario a whiter beam is better. When it's so dark the moon makes you squint a more warm beam is best suited to not cause your peripheral vision to be hindered. Remember perps accomplice to the left?

    One more thing many never discuss is gap. Most flashlights are built where light goes all the way back to the reflector. This can result in you the user having their torsoe lit up well enough for the foe to identify you the user. SureFire understands that and builds flashlights to create a slight gap between the end of the flashlight and the beam itself. Bottom line is if you hold a flashlight beside your head then look down and can see your shoes... So can the perp. Soldiers understand that all too well and insist on their light providing a gap between them and the beam.

    I had mentioned an Elzetta Bones previously because it checks almost all the boxes for your requests. Tint for really dark or free lumen situations. Beam profile for reaching out but still providing good side lighting. Durability of a Sherman tank while being able to run off of a rechargable fuel source. 7 inches or less. Near silent clicker when constant light is needed but the on/off button travel between on and off is tailored for momentary flash n dash situations.

    The one box it does not check is 'the gap'. SureFire accels there.

    Another one not mentioned is the Malkoff BodyGuard. It is designed for very high intensity briefly and steps down for a great output. Very small in terms of concealed carry and can run off a rechargeable CR123 (called RCR123).

    Yup these days choices a way better than the days of "Maglite or an Eveready Captain".
    Last edited by bykfixer; 06-07-2019 at 07:17 AM.
    John 3:16

  10. #40
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    archimedes's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    Thanks!
    In general, is it correct to say a light with high candela (light intensity) can blind people more easily? For surrounding scanning, a flood light is better; for blinding, and scanning far away, a throw light, of which the distance depends on the light intensity measured in candela, has a more decisive impact?
    Please see the wise words below ....

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    I'm ducking that one, with excuse that CPF doesn't like discussions about using lights to hurt people....
    Yes, on CPF, flashlights are tools to illuminate (only)

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    I really hope nobody thinks I want to use these lights to actively do harm. They're mainly for scanning the surroundings, and if really unfortunate, to buy us enough time to escape....
    Yes, well, then no more talk of "blinding" here please. Thank you.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  11. #41

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Changed a few words after seeing your post Archi.

    We're walking a tight rope here trying to discuss the matter in detail without going down the rabbit hole.

    Another potential option would be to check with local police on potential low light training courses, where officers are trained in these tactics. Way more likely to receive tips us flashlight junkies did not mention (or know).
    Last edited by bykfixer; 06-07-2019 at 07:26 AM.
    John 3:16

  12. #42
    Flashaholic* Keitho's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    That 1000 lumens for an hour is an efficiency and heat management challenge. Something that fits in a pocket won't maintain 1000+ lumens for an hour without overheating, and only the more efficient driver/LED combos will even be able to get that much energy out of an 18650. When I want the most efficient single mode light, I go with Zebralight, something like the SC64. Side switch, can be programmed to be single mode or many other configurations, and the most efficient buck/boost driver that I've found for getting all the possible juice out of an 18650. Sorry, not USB rechargeable--swap 18650's to extend the runtime indefinitely.

    If you want a single-mode tail switch, you might have fun starting with the FW3A. The driver is not as efficient as a ZL, but the ability to set it to momentary at any level, multi-mode, candle mode, and a bunch of other choices might inform your next light--its a fun $35 experiment in how you actually will use your light. Also not USB chargeable.

  13. #43
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Folks who know this hobby well tend to toss around terms and phrases............
    Good write up, Mike.
    P
    Peter's shopping list:- HDS / Oveready 170N Exec/LE and an Oveready V4 Nichia Drop In. Otherwise I'm content. Want want want, that's me.

  14. #44

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    I remember a time thinking "wth are these people talking about? CRI, MOP, NIMH, TIR, XPG etc"

    We all speak CPF. New folks often do not. So our lanuage is like a south Korean fellow entering a Mexican police station to ask how to hale a taxi-cab.
    John 3:16

  15. #45
    Flashaholic* Rexlion's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    For the stated purpose, I'd opt for a Malkoff LED drop-in for a 4D Maglite. While it's only about 700 lumens, you'd have a single mode light that's very durable with good runtime and, if approached in an unwelcome manner, you'd also have a hefty club for self defense.
    ___________________________________
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  16. #46
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexlion View Post
    For the stated purpose, I'd opt for a Malkoff LED drop-in for a 4D Maglite. While it's only about 700 lumens, you'd have a single mode light that's very durable with good runtime and, if approached in an unwelcome manner, you'd also have a hefty club for self defense.
    Did you not see this, above ? ....

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    .... on CPF, flashlights are tools to illuminate (only) .... no more talk of "blinding" here please. Thank you.
    Nor of "clubbing" ... with or without winking emoji, thanks.
    ... is the archimedes peak

  17. #47

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    I remember a time thinking "wth are these people talking about? CRI, MOP, NIMH, TIR, XPG etc"

    We all speak CPF. New folks often do not. So our lanuage is like a south Korean fellow entering a Mexican police station to ask how to hale a taxi-cab.


    That is what google is for...

  18. #48

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    @bykfixer

    Thank you for this! So far, I've read http://www.asos1.com/flashlight/flashlight01.htm#fb (Flashlight basic), https://illuminationgear.com/p/faq-cool-vs-neutral-etc, working through this LED and other stuff (title) http://budgetlightforum.com/node/26665 (particularly dense)

    Where else can I find information close to what you mentioned?

  19. #49

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by archimedes View Post
    Please see the wise words below ....



    Yes, on CPF, flashlights are tools to illuminate (only)



    Yes, well, then no more talk of "blinding" here please. Thank you.
    Agreed

  20. #50
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    And CPF is for learning and passing our knowledge on to others.
    I expect someone on here was generous enough to grant you some slack when you were a new kid.
    P
    Peter's shopping list:- HDS / Oveready 170N Exec/LE and an Oveready V4 Nichia Drop In. Otherwise I'm content. Want want want, that's me.

  21. #51

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Changed a few words after seeing your post Archi.

    We're walking a tight rope here trying to discuss the matter in detail without going down the rabbit hole.

    Another potential option would be to check with local police on potential low light training courses, where officers are trained in these tactics. Way more likely to receive tips us flashlight junkies did not mention (or know).
    That's on our list as well.

  22. #52

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    In the end just remember this...

    [IMG][/IMG]

  23. #53

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by Rexlion View Post
    For the stated purpose, I'd opt for a Malkoff LED drop-in for a 4D Maglite. While it's only about 700 lumens, you'd have a single mode light that's very durable with good runtime .
    As far as I understand, Malkoff and Elzetta are modular lights that can be assembled and disassembled? Do I have to deal with electric wiring, voltage, epoxy, etc., or just choose the components and put them together like Legos?

    Where can I read more about this?

  24. #54

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by CREEXHP70LED View Post
    In the end just remember this...

    [IMG][/IMG]
    If the meme is saying, "Do your research before buying, don't just go for big brands", then yes, I got that. Not sure if I'm missing anything.

  25. #55

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    That's on our list as well.


    Most of the cops I know will go with a thrower/ flooder mix more than a flooder. (Incase tinted windows or a fleeing subject if they are not to lazy to chase). Not a slam to LEOS. I have been told by several of them at a party that. (Alcohol was the info extractor) You are seriously WAY overthinking this.

  26. #56

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by CREEXHP70LED View Post
    Most of the cops I know will go with a thrower/ flooder mix more than a flooder. (Incase tinted windows or a fleeing subject if they are not to lazy to chase). Not a slam to LEOS. I have been told by several of them at a party that. (Alcohol was the info extractor) You are seriously WAY overthinking this.
    I guess so.

    By "LEOS", are you referring to a brand name https://www.nebotools.com/c/Lights/16, or a type of light?
    Last edited by QMT93; 06-07-2019 at 11:02 AM.

  27. #57
    peter yetman's Avatar
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    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Law Enforcement Officers.
    The modular stuff is like Lego, no wires or epoxy involved. That's just for geeks like me.
    Have a look on the Malkoff site. He makes various sized bodies, which will fit various heads and a couple of tails. Some of the heads are self contained ( Hound Dog, Wildcat) and some heads will take Drop ins, which are small modules that contain an led, reflector and driver (which controls the electrical power delivered from the battery to the led)
    You can mix and match all this stuff as long as you pay attention to voltage contraints. If in doubt ask about it in the Malkoff thread or ask Gene Malkoff. Yes, he answers the phone and your Emails himself.
    If you are as green as you appear to be, a Malkoff light would be a very sensible purchase. The after sales service from Malkoff and the wealth of information on here will keep you safe and also prevent you wasting money.
    P
    Peter's shopping list:- HDS / Oveready 170N Exec/LE and an Oveready V4 Nichia Drop In. Otherwise I'm content. Want want want, that's me.

  28. #58

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by QMT93 View Post
    If the meme is saying, "Do your research before buying, don't just go for big brands", then yes, I got that. Not sure if I'm missing anything.


    No, I made the meme several days ago when bored. I own both lights and they were comparing the pros and cons of each light on different reviews outside the forums. I just decided to make the meme because they both are really worth it in my opinion.

  29. #59

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Ya know.....I am sorta feeling like we are getiing borderline trolled on this one. I am not accusing anyone, but it seems a little fishy.

  30. #60

    Default Re: $150, tactical, single output @ 1,000+ lm for 1+hr

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    Law Enforcement Officers.
    The modular stuff is like Lego, no wires or epoxy involved. That's just for geeks like me.
    Have a look on the Malkoff site. He makes various sized bodies, which will fit various heads and a couple of tails. Some of the heads are self contained ( Hound Dog, Wildcat) and some heads will take Drop ins, which are small modules that contain an led, reflector and driver (which controls the electrical power delivered from the battery to the led)
    You can mix and match all this stuff as long as you pay attention to voltage contraints. If in doubt ask about it in the Malkoff thread or ask Gene Malkoff. Yes, he answers the phone and your Emails himself.
    If you are as green as you appear to be, a Malkoff light would be a very sensible purchase. The after sales service from Malkoff and the wealth of information on here will keep you safe and also prevent you wasting money.
    P
    I see. Thanks!

    And yes, I just started reading about flashlights last week, so I am as green as my questions are.

    To be honest, initially I thought Malkoff was an overpriced Chinese brand because "Malkoff" instantly relates me to "mock-up". Yup, I'm that green.

    It took me until yesterday to know a bit more about Malkoff, Elzetta, Pflexor, and HDSsystem. I think the consensus is that these are high quality, with Malkoff offering drop-ins (Lego pieces?) for themselves, Elzetta, Surefire, Maglite, Elzetta having 4 models, and HDSsytem taking customized orders. I just can't find many detailed reviews on their models, and haven't learned a lot about drop-ins. Thanks to you, I know a bit more.

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