21700 Cells

daffy

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Jun 13, 2019
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432
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AU
Are they going to be as popular as 18650?
Im a new flashaholic and my first few purchases were 18650 LED torches.
Now i have a 21700 one, and another on the way.
Trying to keep my battery sizes so i dont have too many, plus 21700 fits my hand better and longer runtimes help.
I got 2 bike mounts and use 2 LED flashlights as additional lighting on my E-Bike as the 200 lumen job fitted is ok but i need more (to be seen, and see).

Cheers
daffy
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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Jun 18, 2014
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Battery sizes aren't determined by flashlights. They're determined by EV's and tools. It does seem that some manufacturers in those industries are adopting the 21700 as the cell of choice. So, it's likely that flashlight makers will use them too.

IMO, 18650 is about as large a battery I'm willing to use for EDC, and it has to be in a small light (like a Zebralight SC64 or BLF FW3A). Though, I totally get why a slightly larger 21700 light is preferred carrying on a walk, and it has more power and capacity as a bonus.

I hope both cell sizes remain standards for years to come.
 

Lynx_Arc

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Tulsa,OK
I have a feeling 21700s will be more popular in the years to come but mainly for heavier duty use while 18650s will still be the first go to battery due to price per cell and size (smaller). We are already seeing them used in the larger more powerful tool batteries but these packs are massive compared to similar cell count 18650 packs.
I'm sort of thinking perhaps there will be some sort of technology breakthrough that will supplant both 18650 and 21700s cells in current applications. It is possible electric car production will go through the roof and other players in batteries will opt for an even larger cell size or new battery technology. Maybe a non cylindrical cell format will be chosen even.
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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I'm sort of thinking perhaps there will be some sort of technology breakthrough that will supplant both 18650 and 21700s cells in current applications. It is possible electric car production will go through the roof and other players in batteries will opt for an even larger cell size or new battery technology. Maybe a non cylindrical cell format will be chosen even.

Uggh. Let's hope they don't go the LiPo route that laptops are starting to use.
 

Lynx_Arc

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Uggh. Let's hope they don't go the LiPo route that laptops are starting to use.
I doubt they will go that way unless it is a lot safer and cheaper to manufacture. As someone who has about 60 18650 batteries that I got from a recycler for scrap prices I don't see a good use for the LiPo packs other than perhaps if they fit an Ebay power bank kit.
 

LMF5000

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Mar 10, 2011
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Malta
There are already electric cars that use different cell technology (such as prismatic cells). Larger cell sizes are a tradeoff, on the one hand the amount of packaging overhead per mAh decreases (it only takes one container for a 100Ah cell instead of 30 cans for 30 cylindrical 3.3Ah cells); on the other hand there are several disadvantages:
1. In a crash, a pack with large prismatic cells will have the impact will rupture and short-circuit one or several ~100Ah modules - whereas with the Tesla-style individual cells, the same crash will only take out the handful of cells closest to the crash direction site.
2. Defective cells, say those that develop open or a short circuit failures, will have a significant effect on the performance of the pack. In a Tesla-style pack with thousands of cylindrical cells, one shorted cell will pop the fuse for that cell, and the pack continues to operate with marginally decreased capacity
3. Larger cells make thermal management more difficult. Smaller cells are more inefficient in terms of the ratio of active cathode/anode material to packaging material (the metal case, contacts, safety features etc.). Somewhere between the two extremes is a sweet spot. Tesla's studies determined that 20700 (and later 21700) is that sweet spot. It certainly looks compelling. A 21700 isn't that much larger than a 18650, but packs 50% more capacity.
4. Larger cells are more demanding from a production standpoint. In much the same way that manufacturing a huge TFT screen is much more difficult than manufacturing a small one (you can only have 3 dead pixels, and there are more pixels in a 52" TV than in a 21" monitor), with larger batteries you need greater areas of electrode, so the probability of defects getting into the batteries is greater (defects meaning small regions of anode/cathode/seperator material that are on the edge of acceptable tolerances). In a small cylindrical cell these are easily weeded out at testing because they really affect cell characteristics; in a 100Ah prismatic cell the same defects will probably go un-noticed at production, then 5 years later you end up with a hole in the separator and that cell develops high self discharge...

I think 21700 is here to stay for at least another decade.
 

rsilvers

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Dec 21, 2004
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I am starting to see 21700 lights on eBay. Are any of these proven to use legit LEDs?
 

bcm00re

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Apr 1, 2020
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I believe Convoy makes at least a couple 21700 torches.
 
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