How many full charges can a standard eneloops handle before it goes bad?

mountaindewer

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For example, lets say I get a single AA Standard 2000 mah eneloop to use in a single AA light. When exhausted, I put the battery in my maha c9000, set it to finish discharging it to 0.9 volts, then charge it up fully. I do this every single time the battery exhausted. How many recharges can I expect before the battery starts going bad?
 

Frijid

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Would running the refresh cycle help extend this to more than 300 and actually reach closer to the suggested ~2,000 recharges that are advertised?

Nope. Running a refresh mode is more or less what running it down to 0.9 volts does. The only way to get close to the advertised cycle count is by shallower discharges
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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Yup, those 2100 cycles are only partial cycles. Under ideal conditions, you might be able to get that. The internal resistance would probably be unacceptably high before you got 2100 (partial) cycles, though. Fine for low-drain applications, but forget about high-power flashlights.
 

InvisibleFrodo

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I "retire" older weaker batteries to less demanding applications like remote controls, wireless mouse/keyboard, portable radio, even certain lights if they are low powered lights. Basically any device that doesn't have a high current demand.
 

mountaindewer

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Is there any danger in doing this? I know its going to greatly affect the overall life of them, and I'm fine with that, I'm just looking at the possibility that doing it would cause rapid degradation of the internals and cause a fire hazard. Im sure if it got that bad or anywhere near that bad my c9000 would catch it on the resistance prcharge check.
 

DIWdiver

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I would not discharge them to 0.9V before charging, just charge them. The additional discharge is just wearing them out faster.
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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You can charge Eneloops at whatever drain state you want. Yes, they're generally completely drained at about 0.9v (resting), but unless you're cycling cells you haven't used in years (to regain some capacity), it's not worth draining them to that level before recharging.

I just broke out some 4 year old Eneloops, still in their packaging, to do some testing. Cycling was able to recover about 5% of their lost capacity, basically back to the level of brand-new (about 1900mAh). i.e., First cycle only gave about 1800mAh discharge capacity. After 3 or 4 full cycles (drained down to 0.8v), they were reading 1900mAh.

Note that cycling isn't required in most cases. It's only when Eneloops have sat unused for several years that cycling may help. Otherwise, all you're doing is using up a cycle for no benefit.

Generally, after 300 full (or equivalent) cycles, Eneloops are only good for low-drain devices. Their internal resistance is too high for flashlights, after that. But they still have most of their original capacity; it's just that you can only get it by running them at low drain (100mA or less).

I have some very old Eneloops that I've used well-over a thousand cycles. They're absolute crap in flashlights, and they have to be charged with a dumb slow-charger (smart chargers won't recognize them). But they're still great in some lights I made with 5mm LEDs, run at 20mA or less. They still power them for over a week, almost as long as brand-new Eneloops. They also still hold their charge well, so they haven't lost their low-self-discharge. They'd be great in remote controls or clocks. Don't throw away worn-out Eneloops!
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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I am struggling to really grasp the value of LSD vs other features.

Low self discharge is an extremely important feature of Eneloop. IMO, it's the single most important feature they have. It allows you to replace alkaleaks with Eneloops in all your devices, even ones where you may not recharge the battery for years. It also means you can charge them up and leave them fully charged for when you need to replace batteries. You never have to worry about having to recharge before use.

Lithium-ion batteries have the same LSD feature, but it's harder on lithium-ion cells to leave them fully charged. With Eneloops, you don't need to make that choice.
 

DIWdiver

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Low self discharge is an extremely important feature of Eneloop. IMO, it's the single most important feature they have. It allows you to replace alkaleaks with Eneloops in all your devices, even ones where you may not recharge the battery for years. It also means you can charge them up and leave them fully charged for when you need to replace batteries. You never have to worry about having to recharge before use.

Lithium-ion batteries have the same LSD feature, but it's harder on lithium-ion cells to leave them fully charged. With Eneloops, you don't need to make that choice.

I absolutely agree. Eneloops are ONLY useful in low discharge applications, where you want the cells to go months or years without being charged.

In applications where you will need to recharge the cell(s) in 1-2 months or less anyway, Eneloops just don't have any advantage. They don't suck, they just aren't the best option. If you do need to charge more than 1/month, then eneloops do start to suck. The more frequently you need to charge, the more you should look at other options.
 

nqhzdkdf

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I had bad experience with non-LSD cells in cases wehre you dont use the non-LSD cells right up after they have been charged. Even in cases where you charge non-LSD cells to 100% and then use them after two weeks the eneloops always was the better solution.

If someone want eneloop/LSD cells for long life then just take the eneloop lite cells.
 

WalkIntoTheLight

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I had bad experience with non-LSD cells in cases wehre you dont use the non-LSD cells right up after they have been charged. Even in cases where you charge non-LSD cells to 100% and then use them after two weeks the eneloops always was the better solution.

If someone want eneloop/LSD cells for long life then just take the eneloop lite cells.

The regular Eneloops have plenty of life. I've only managed to wear out a few cells, and only after many hundreds of cycles and many years of use. They develop high internal resistance when cycled hundreds of times, but they still are LSD and still great in low-drain devices like remotes and clocks.

For any sane user, they're never going to wear them out. The only way I wore mine out was using them every single night in a 2xAA flashlight which I used for room illumination. They got recharged every morning. After a couple of years, they will no longer power the light on high. Too high IR. I use the worn-out ones in low-drain devices, for which they still have most of their capacity.
 
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