1 high output throw and 1 flood

Hi guys,

I'm looking for two flashlights: 1 high output throw (beam profile similar to Surefire E2D Ultra, Malkoff E2HT, Convoy C8+, etc. basically a bright hot spot with some spill), and 1 dedicated flood. In your opinion, is it possible? Where do I need to compromise? Hope to hear from you.

Budget: $300 total

Length: 6.5'' (170mm) or shorter

Diameter: 1'' (25.4mm) for both head and body, willing to go up to the head of C8+

Switch: Forward tail, with momentary

Battery: 18650 (willing to go 20700, 21700, 26650)

Output: Flat line for at least 1 hour(60kcd for the thrower, and 800 lumens for the flood) until the battery can no longer sustain

My reason for the number: I was able to compare the Convoy C8+ and the Malkoff M61HOT, both running 18650. The C8+ clearly wins in brightness with at least 60kcd, while the M61HOT wins in terms of runtime – flat line at roughly 20kcd for 80 minutes. Hence, I wonder if there's a light that can combine the best of both: flat line @60kcd, and 800 lumens for 60+ minutes in a similar size.

glad to see you started your thread, I hope the members can help you come up with something:thumbsup:

Thanks! I really look forward to what you guys have in mind.

Guys, any thoughts? It's dark in here.

Surefire DBR Guardian is also worth looking into, if you can live with the unorthodox style.


You won't get 60k candela wuth the spot but you get
227 meter and 105 meter throw for the 1000 lumen spot and 800 lumen flood, respectively, with ratings of 2.5 hours for both on max.

Could you get an E2D Ultra and a diffuser? I feel like my L2x and LED Defender with an F-04 can go from throwy to flood pretty easily.

@RobertMM: That looks similar to the Nitecore EC4GT, and the Fenix 35UE, though the Fenix doesn't output as much, if I recall correctly. I'll look into it, thanks!

@fresh eddie fresh: the E2D Ultra 1000 lumens doesn't stay at 1000, I believe. Furthermore, compared to the 500-lumen variant, the 1000-lumen variant utilizes the higher lumen count for spill instead of intensity, which means these two are roughly equally bright. I really can't find a review with runtime graph on either variant, which is partially why I'm still looking. Thanks for the suggestion though!

QMT93 said:

Hi guys,

I'm looking for two flashlights: 1 high output throw (beam profile similar to Surefire E2D Ultra, Malkoff E2HT, Convoy C8+, etc. basically a bright hot spot with some spill), and 1 dedicated flood. In your opinion, is it possible? Where do I need to compromise? Hope to hear from you.

Budget: $300 total

Length: 6.5'' (170mm) or shorter

Diameter: 1'' (25.4mm) for both head and body, willing to go up to the head of C8+

Switch: Forward tail, with momentary

Battery: 18650 (willing to go 20700, 21700, 26650)

Output: Flat line for at least 1 hour(60kcd for the thrower, and 800 lumens for the flood) until the battery can no longer sustain

My reason for the number: I was able to compare the Convoy C8+ and the Malkoff M61HOT, both running 18650. The C8+ clearly wins in brightness with at least 60kcd, while the M61HOT wins in terms of runtime – flat line at roughly 20kcd for 80 minutes. Hence, I wonder if there's a light that can combine the best of both: flat line @60kcd, and 800 lumens for 60+ minutes in a similar size.

Click to expand...

The Armytek Predator Pro seems like it checks off most of your boxes for the Thrower. Its ~ the size of the C8, but with 100% brightness stabilization for a flat output.

https://www.armytek.com/flashlights/models/predator/armytek-predator-pro/

This looks interesting, I was not aware of this light before. From the review I just read here it seems that the UI is partly similar to the Malkoff UI. Always high when the head is tightened. And different lower or special modes that can be selected when the head is unscrewed. Sounds pretty intuitive to me.

tuelleric said:

This looks interesting, I was not aware of this light before. From the review I just read here it seems that the UI is partly similar to the Malkoff UI. Always high when the head is tightened. And different lower or special modes that can be selected when the head is unscrewed. Sounds pretty intuitive to me.

Click to expand...

Yes, its the same interface used by Foursevens, Fenix and others back in the day prior to getting sued by Surefire, which forced these awful sideswitches and byzantine mode arrangements upon us all.

Head tightened = max brightness; head Loosened = L - M - H Multi mode

Definitely the best UI ever developed. I think these few Armytek lights are the last remaining flashlights to still have it.

@spyderco monkey: Thanks for the tips! There's a review of the Doberman Pro with the XHP35 HI, which is the thinner version of the Predator Pro on bmengieer showing that the output does not stay flat for the entire time. I think the Predator Pro won't either.
@tulleric: Nice find! It's a shame it doesn't have a runtime graph.

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Another thrower that I just came across: Nitecore P30

QMT93 said:

@spyderco monkey: Thanks for the tips! There's a review of the Doberman Pro with the XHP35 HI, which is the thinner version of the Predator Pro on bmengieer showing that the output does not stay flat for the entire time. I think the Predator Pro won't either.

Click to expand...

Thats a byproduct of the active temperature control:


Basically the light is so bright in turbo it gets very hot, so it has to drop down to prevent melting. I'm not sure if any 1400lm pocket sized light can run full 1400lms for 1hr straight without totally overheating / melting.

But the beam is full stabilized in the lower modes (~370lm is flat.) And if you use Turbo in 5 minute intervals it will deliver full brightness each time for the life of the battery, as opposed to an unstabilized light that will deliver progressively dimmer 5 minute bursts as the battery fades.

@tuelleric and @spyderco monkey: Thank you guys for the lead! I understand the automatic thermal management that steps down the output. I'm looking for something with absolutely no step down at all, while being able to manage thermal at 60kcd. Is it possible to achieve in under 7"?

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QMT93 said:

@tuelleric and @spyderco monkey: Thank you guys for the lead! I understand the automatic thermal management that steps down the output. I'm looking for something with absolutely no step down at all, while being able to manage thermal at 60kcd. Is it possible to achieve in under 7"?

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Click to expand...

Well 'stepdown' is relative.

The Armytek's feature 2x Turbo levels that you can program. Turbo 2 = Maximum, Turbo 1 = High+.

Using the Doberman as we have charts for that:
Turbo 2 = 1258 OTF Lumens
Tubro 1 = 750 OTF Lumens

In Turbo 1, the Doberman is nearly flat, running at 90% (675 OTF Lumens)


In Turbo 2, the light "steps down" to 50% - but 50% of 1258 lumens = 629 Lumens


So while Turbo 2 has a 50% stepdown, its equivalent to nearly the 90% of Turbo 1.

And 629 Lumens for a full hour (likely a bit longer if using a 35000mah cell instead of 3100) is a lot of light for a good amount of time.

A point of comparison would be Malkoff M61 HOT; even at 50% stepdown the Armytek is a bit brighter then the 575otf M61H:


The Armytek also features a larger head purpose built for throw....

The point being, even at 50% the light is more the bright and throwy enough for nearly any conceivable use. And then of course is the question, how often do you need 1hr of 1250lm throw?

How about oveready e35 dip mule/optic lights?

@spyderco monkey: That does make sense to me. Thank you for pointing it out! Here's a thing: if Turbo 2 is 50% of Turbo 1, that means the intensity is also halved, which leaves it at roughly 25kcd, not quite what I aim for.

Regarding how often I need it, I'd rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. After all, this is a real step up for me in flashlight spending, so I want the most out of my money . Just wondering if it is at all possible, and at what compromise.

@euroken: That one light is out of my budget, and it uses 18350, instead of 18650. Don't get me wrong, I understand it's a really good brand. I just prefer two lights so that I can have a backup.

I do appreciate the input from everyone. Please tell me decisively:

1) Is it possible to achieve 60kcd flat for 1hr, using 1x18650 / 1x21700 / 1x26650, in a size under 7'', with forward tail switch? I'll keep the Nitecore EC4GT as an alternative.
2) If yes, what's the catch, if any?
3) If no, where do I need to compromise: increasing budget, reducing number of lights, increasing size, reducing runtime, reducing output, etc.?

QMT93 said:

@spyderco monkey: That does make sense to me. Thank you for pointing it out! Here's a thing: if Turbo 2 is 50% of Turbo 1, that means the intensity is also halved, which leaves it at roughly 25kcd, not quite what I aim for.

Regarding how often I need it, I'd rather have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it. After all, this is a real step up for me in flashlight spending, so I want the most out of my money . Just wondering if it is at all possible, and at what compromise.

Click to expand...

I'm curious how you arrived at this 60kcd requirement? And what thrower are you using now?

As a point of reference, the Malkoff M61HOT is 20,000lux, so 25kcd is really bright.

And of course, for the first few minutes the light will be 50kcd, which by historical flashlight standards is an absurdly bright, powerful flashlight.

In my personal experience with throwers, anything that can be seen or needs to be seen at long range will be seen in the first few seconds - minutes of use. And a dedicated thrower will still light things up very well on medium power; my Armytek Barracuda has no problem lighting up things at 150m when set to its 170lm mode; its easily 5x brighter at 150m on that 170lm mode then my 750lm non-thrower Quark is.

Unless you need to mount mount your flashlight to a GPMG and for a 1hr gunbattle at 400m ala Surefire Hellfighter, the Predator is almost certainly going to be more then enough light and range for a pocket sized flashlight.

his convoy c8+ is spec'd out to be 60kcd.

I also want to point something out in to the turbo 2 runtime graph. i'm not sure how accurate the armytek output is. if they are accurate and turbo 2 is roughly 628lm; there won't be much of a difference to the eye compared to 580lm of the previous gen M61HOT.

the current M61HOT would have higher output; however i already know that is not what the OP is looking for. I honestly don't think it's possible for what he is looking for but I don't have the experience with throwers as other do.

He wants an edc sized thrower that can put out 60kcd off of a single 18650 and be able to hold near max output for 1 hr.

@spyderco monkey and @INFRNL: Thank you, guys! As INFRNL said, the 60kcd is from my Convoy C8+. Here's the back story: I had the chance to compare the C8+ and the M61HOT beam profile, brightness, and runtime.

Beam profile: The C8+ has a small, but distinct hot spot with spill, while the M61HOT has a larger, but dimmer, hotspot seamlessly merge into the spill.

Brightness: The C8+ clearly wins at 60kcd, and tight hot spot, the M61HOT produces 20kcd.

Runtime: The C8+ diminishes its max output over time, while the M61HOT remains close to 20kcd for at least an hour. Both run on 1x18650.

My preference: C8+ brightness(60kcd), M61HOT runtime (stay near the initial output for an hour), size of either, battery can be 18650, 21700, 26650. So far, I have only found the Nitecore EC4GT, and the Acebeam T27. Furthermore, I'm concerned about how long it might take to have the lights warranted, if necessary. I think that's one of the compromises.

If 60kcd, 1 hour flat, in under 7" can't be achieved, what do I need to compromise?

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