which light for defensive purposes only?

I'd like to pick a light to go with my new Kahr PM9 and a good defensive folding knife together in a day planner type set-up. So the light will only be used in a defensive type situation. What would be some good candidates?

I'm thinking that something bright, with a momentary on/off tailcap is a must, and nothing larger than a 2x123.

I would have to suggest an L4 with a lock out tail cap from an E2e If not that, then the smaller ASP tac-lite or TACM-III

Surefire C2 w/ P61 HOLA if this is for defensive purposes only.

Surefire 6Z with P61 if you are carrying it in a bag, E2e with MN03 (60 lumen) if you are going to carry it on you.

My first choice is the E2e, it's slim, bright and eminently pocketable. It would make a great accompaniment to your PM9 in a fanny pack or vest. They are both light and powerful. The black or satin gray would match your Kahr better, but those are harder to find colors.

And like stonedog and revolvergeek recommend, if you are carrying in a day planner placed in a briefcase or bag, then you can take the extra weight and volume of the C2 or G2Z, gaining lumens with a p61, and the grip ring for Rogers/Surefire shooting. And those come in black. THe G2Z will save you an ounce, which if your concealed carry choice is the PM9, may make a difference. (There's also the Z2, which is like the aluminum C2, but no clip.)

Either way, sounds like you'll have an ideal setup! What knife are you thinking about?

daloosh

a G2Z if you're carrying it a holster, a C2 if otherwise /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I second Chamenos on the G2Z. I carried my G2Z almost everyday although in reality my E2e is the official EDC light.

For the E2e, what I don't think is suitable for defensive use is the lack of a combat grip for hand holding with a pistol. The momentary on/off switch on the E2e is a little stiff as compared to my G2Z and the fact that there is no rubber ring grip on it's body made it even harder to employ the Rogers/Surefire stance in use with a handgun. In Singapore we don't carry firearms for defensive purposes but I am just quoting based on what I know.

I think the E2e is a great illumination tool for general use and have not regretted buying it.

Andy Ho

If you're imagining you might want to hit someone with the light, get an aluminum-bodied version. If you don't mind spending big bucks on bulbs (how much will you be using this thing?), the SF C2 or D2 would work fine. If your hand isn't too big for it, the E2e is smaller and would work well, and has more reasonably-priced bulbs. The upcoming E2e Defender would be the ultimate here. There's the Streamlight NF-2 and TL-2 as well.

I personally would be looking hard at the Streamlights and the E2e Defender.

If you just want light and don't care as much about using it as an impact tool, you can also consider plastic-bodied lights like the G2, G2Z, and TACM. With the G2 and G2Z, you still have the issue of $16-$20 per replacement lamp, which at this point I consider unacceptable.

What kind of light grip(s) do you use with your handgun?

Joe

Hi Joe,

Don't mind me saying this, but I think your issue about lamp price is not made with fairness to quality and workmanship. I have used Streamlight before and also owned Surefires. Although the price of Surefire's lamp assemblies are expensive, I don't see a need to replace them. Not a single Surefire light I have now needs a lamp replacement. For the Streamlights? It is one bulb after another. In a sense, it is infuriating that not only do I have to constantly worry about getting fresh battery I got to worry about my bulb's lifespan. I know a small handfull of CPFers here who experienced Surefire's bulbs or lamp assemblies failing them but that is in all manner of fairness considered normal when mass production is concerned. At least SF is fair enough to get the lamp assemblies replaced free of charge.

My experience with Streamlight is not so lucky. Even my friend who had a TL3 finds himself in need of constant change of bulb. With Streamlight, an estimated 5 to 8 battery change would see you needing a new bulb. My SF had gone through boxes after boxes of 12 pack batteries and they are still working fine. Of course I do pack a spare lamp in my SC3 spares carrier which I don't think I probably would ever need to use.

Maybe these are just my experiences with both manufacturer but unless Surefire failed me terribly or somebody could come up with lights of similar quality but lower price I won't give up on Surefire because I know I what I am paying for.

Andy Ho

Wouldn't the new E2D Defender be the ticket?

pjandyho: REally! I don't think I've seen many complaints about Streamlight bulbs blowing like popcorn before. Okay, I'm overstating your complaint, but it's interesting. My friends and I all experience lots of lamp problems with the P6*/P9* series bulbs -- lamps die within a couple of battery changes, lamps die when the light is dropped a short distance. You think you're irritated now replacing $8 Streamlight bulbs, wait 'til it's $16-$20+ SF bulbs. I'm glad you've had good luck with SF bulbs, but I'm not the only person with this complaint. I'm being very fair to SF, IMO.

I was tempted to post my opinions and experiences on the bulb debate but would rather a new thread was started if needed and we keep this thread on the topic of defensive flashlights as started by Bill please.

Thanks

Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

i think maglight works

I'm with Bushman. The L4 is bright and durable and just long enough to hammer-bop someone on top of their bad attitude if necessary.

But I don't think flashlights, with the exception of the TigerLight or some kind of 6D monster, are effective self-defense weapons.

You'll probably figure that out -- hopefully beforfe the 600-pound ape pounces on you -- and then be free to enjoy the L4 for just being an awesome flashlight.

The L4 has a great, bright flood of white light that is very impressive---I love the Lock-out, unlike some of the others....I'd go with an L4 or a TL-2, depending if you needed a clip for an interior coat pocket. I guess one could always take the clip off as well.

BTW, I have a buddy with reasonably big hands -- he's not a monster, by any stretch -- and the E2e (and L4) just get a bit lost in his mitts. I definitely don't have that problem. But if you know your hands are huge, check the E2e for size and move up to the C2/D2 if you need something a bit bigger. I do agree that the E2e Defender is probably the default right answer if using the light as an impact tool is desired.

Interesting, I just don't feel that the E2E has enough oomph for this type of act.

At minimum, A P61 lamp would be necessary, small size is not at a premium since it will be carried not on person.

The L4 doesn't seem focused enough or bright enough from what I have seen, but I am not a self defense expert, so I will leave that to them.

My 2 cents, Z2 with P61. Small, very bright, combat grip.

Bill

Bill the way I look at it is that the L4 has more lumen output than the new Surefire x200 LED hand gun light. Will probably have a broader beam too, which translates into more periphery that you can see. Slip a big rubber grommet taht is tight fitting around the barrel and you have an instant grip for the various methods out there...

My choice still has not changed. i recommend the L4 for smallish carry with or without a gun...

With all due respect, Bushman.

While I"m not an expert, I can say that lots and lots of experts say the P60 is sufficient for tactical use ... in fact, there are many who feel that the runtime tradeoff for a P61 is a bad deal! Having practiced some, I'm comfortable with an E2e if needed.

Billmanweh, when you say defensive, do you plan to clock someone with your flashlight, or is it to complement your gun and knife? I don't think you would draw the flashlight first and then move up in force, especially in the daytime. It seems more likely that you would draw gun and torch in the evening, so the light wouldn't see use as an impact weapon, as you wouldn't want anyone close enough to snatch your Kahr. Is this right?

In that case, I still vote for E2E, then C2. billwaites, though I agree that weight is less an issue CCW in a dayplanner, the choice of PM9 is at least partially motivated by size and weight. I think the Kahr is about a pound unloaded and less than five and a half inches long.

daloosh