Where does one find Good Objective Reviews?

Hamilton Felix

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At the moment, I'd like to find useful reviews of Rigid D-series Pro DOT/SAE J583 selective yellow fog lights. Yes, J583, so they are fogs, but little real user data out there. And they are expensive.

Most of what one finds is either a sales pitch or someone saying "I bought them, so they are great."

I miss Gene Schermeister's Whole Light Catalog. 🙄
 

-Virgil-

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Memory has deeply rose-tinted glasses; Gene's Whole Light Catalog was full of misinformed pet theories and subjective opinions declared as facts.

There is a fairly major issue with Rigid's "SAE J583" fog lamps, right off the bat: J583 contains specs for two different fog beams. There's the old "F" spec, been around since the 1950s, which allows completely pathetic performance in terms of width (not enough), light below horizontal (not enough) and light above horizontal (too much). Then there's the much newer "F3" spec, which both requires and permits much better performance. The beam has to be wider, there has to be (and can be) more light below horizontal, and less light is allowed above horizontal. So Rigid shouting about this lamp being "compliant with SAE J583" sounds all nice and official, but leaves out important info. And if you look on their website, you'll find they've posted photos that make it very difficult to read the relevant part of the lens markings. Difficult, but not impossible; it reads "SAE F", not "SAE F3", so for some reason they designed and engineered this lamp to the prehistoric spec instead of the new one.

Then, elsewhere in their promotional verbiage for these lamps, they call them "long-range high-intensity lights", which is the opposite of an accurate description of a fog lamp. It's like saying a watermelon is a citrus fruit about 3 to 4 inches in diameter, orange in color.

Next: white LEDs with a yellow lens. OK, maybe the light color falls within the selective yellow boundary, but this is an inefficient way of getting there. Selective yellow LED emitters exist, so why not use them?

Then there are images like this one. Give me a break...those aren't being used as fog lamps, they're up at headlamp height being used as "Me me me, look at me, my truck is big and expensive and I am too cool for school" lights. Which doesn't really say anything about the lights themselves, but is further evidence that Rigid will say/show anything, even if it's not really quite in line with the truth. Why fib around like this? Make a good product instead; it doesn't cost more, then the product stands and sells on its merits.

So after all that, are these any good? I don't have data, and given Rigid's BS-heavy approach, I don't think it's worth spending the money to obtain data. To answer your question, one gets an objective review by studying objective data. That's the kind obtained by putting the lamp on a photogoniometer and measuring exactly what it does. Photos won't cut it, and neither will any number of internet "reviews"...with or without rippin' guitar noise in the background.
 

Hamilton Felix

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Thanks, Virgil. Yes, it has been many years since I corresponded with Gene S. Ls400, I did run across that tacomaworld review. I sort of choked when the KC took top honors as yellow fog - though I'm not sure exactly what an "SAE fog G4" is. Also, though there was apparently some measuring of light output and color, there was little discussion of beam pattern (literature on the old Cibie 175 said clearly 8 degrees vertical, 120 degrees horizontal), just the lights aimed at a wall - which told us something, but I'm not sure how to quantify it. And was that KC fog really selective yellow or just sort of orange/amber?

Sounds like truly good selective yellow fogs have gone the way of the old H2 Cibie lights - or the Dodo. I appreciate the info on those Rigid lights.

Some folks do put a lot of time and effort into reviews. But most of us do not have lighting labs. And the old "I bought 'em, so they are great" factor is out there everywhere.
 
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Alaric Darconville

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I'm not sure exactly what an "SAE fog G4" is.

Probably the "Gravity LED G4", which could easily have been the "Tsunami LED T7"-- it doesn't mean anything beyond a model name. Maybe it's their 4th-generation LED fog lamp product.

just the lights aimed at a wall - which told us something, but I'm not sure how to quantify it.
You quantify it with having the actual lamp and a goniophotometer.

The beamshots really can't tell us much at all thanks to auto ISO and shutter speed and white balance and all the other stuff.
 

Hamilton Felix

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Good point. If all pictures were with my old 35mm SLR, at the same shutter and aperture settings, we might have a clue, but about all that "on a wall" stuff does is indicate if it really is a wide, flat fog beam, and I can see if the light distribution is really terrible. Frankly, I like yellow fogs, but don't use them much. I actually found an auxiliary low beam more useful, especially in light ground fog. The yellow would be a nice contrast if trying to make a motorcycle conspicuous, and I did like the yellow Series 175's on my Suburban when driving in heavy snow - but that was a decade ago.
 

-Virgil-

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Good point. If all pictures were with my old 35mm SLR, at the same shutter and aperture settings, we might have a clue

Actually we still really wouldn't. The effective dynamic range of the human eye is much wider than that of even a "high dynamic range" image, whether it's printed or on a screen.

about all that "on a wall" stuff does is indicate if it really is a wide, flat fog beam, and I can see if the light distribution is really terrible.

That's right. A photo can show that a beam is bad much more reliably than it can show that a beam is good.
 

Hamilton Felix

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Still, I wish there was some place that actually tested lights, and could say with authority which driving or fog light was really good, which was mediocre, and which was bad. But I guess that would be bad for business. 🙄
 

kingofwylietx

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Still, I wish there was some place that actually tested lights........................But I guess that would be bad for business. 

To have any chance at objectivity, the testing agency/company would need to be scientific and have some sort of revenue stream not related to the products it tests.
I'm thinking government or subscription based. Both of those methods can have mechanisms in place to avoid outright bribery or tests that are, in reality, just advertisements.

If it were a private company, they need to make a profit to pay for equipment and people. So, in such a niche market (catering to people who want quality and legal light rather than neat looking toys)...it's not an easy feat.
Certainly, we appear to be going the right direction in seeing new vehicle headlight performance added as a tested metric of the overall vehicle rating.

However, you seem to be asking about aftermarket products. For that, it's much tougher.

At least, you can come on here and ask questions about what might work best for your particular applications. We are blessed to have a handful of very knowledgeable guys that don't seem to mind sharing their wisdom.
That's what I have done and am extremely happy with the results. This, right here, might be as good as it gets....and that is for only as long as they are willing to come back and be helpful. Some days I fear the onslaught of people looking for absolutely illegal and unsafe options will run them off. Lets hope not!
 

Magio

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Would be nice if there was a requirement to display the headlight rating on the vehicles Monroney sticker.
 

JasonOk

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What i fear is who's gonna take up the fight when these guys move on, where's the next generation's mind set at?
 
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