Philips 9012 XtremeVision G-Force

Anyone got any more information on these +130% HIR2 bulbs from Philips? It would be interesting to see a comparison between the Vosla 9012+120% or the Philips 9012+130%!

PDF warning:

https://www.download.p4c.philips.com/files/9/9012xvgs2/9012xvgs2_pss_engsg.pdf

I can't find a picture on Google Images when searching the part number "9012XVGS2." Nor can I find any images on Philip's website. But there is a cut sheet for the bulbs, so they must exist, right? :thinking:

I was about to write them off as blue-tinted junk because the cut sheet says something about a "patented gradient coating" and "significantly whiter light" but the color temperature is apparently only 3350 or 3450K (two different figures in the cut sheet) and that's not all that blue...unlike Philip's cosmetic accessory/Crystal/Diamond/White Vision line, which advertise 4200 K color temperatures or whatever.

Finally, I note that this is part of Philip's "G-Force" lineup, which are bulbs meant to survive potholes and other jolts that come with driving in the city. Does the shock resistance come at the expense of a bigger, sturdier filament (and the associated downsides)?

And while we're on the topic of Philips HIR2 bulbs, I note that their 9012LL EcoVision bulb is rated at 1350 nominal lumens, and it is ECE homologated. I thought ECE reg 37 calls for 1875 nominal lumens, give or take 15%? How can something with 1350 meet requirements?

PDF Warning:

https://www.download.p4c.philips.com/files/9/9012llc1/9012llc1_pss_engza.pdf

Most of these questions can't be answered until the 9012XVGS2, or its EAN codes, are more than just vaporware. It appears this bulb doesn't actually exist, at least not yet. (I also notice this sell sheet doesn't seem to exist except in Malaysia).

Color temperature is a silly marketing distraction when we're talking about incandescent bulbs with various amounts and forms of blue gunk on the glass, but a Vosla HIR2 +120 with no blue gunk gives something like 3350 or 3400K at 13.2v, if I recall correctly (need to remind myself by checking test results) -- a standard H7 gives 3360K, a standard H4 high beam gives 3270, standard H4 low beam gives 3220, H4LL low beam gives 3060, standard (which is a long-life) H13 low beam gives 3100. So a claim of 3450K from an HIR2+130 wouldn't require much/any blue gunk. This together with the babble about "gradient coating" makes me think it's probably another variant of what we already see in today's bulbs: an uncolored band surrounding the filament, and blue gunk elsewhere on the capsule.

I'd like to learn more about the vibration-resistance of these bulbs. More technical detail, that is; there's already more than enough promotional babble about it. Probably doesn't affect filament size so much as filament supports and welding techniques, etc.

The 1350 lumen statement for the LL EcoVision HIR2 appears to be an error; it's probably from copying the H11 sell sheet. A 1350-lumen HIR2 would not qualify for homologation, and this bulb is both homologated and on actual sale. This looks like it might be a rebrand of what was actually Philips's first HIR2 they put on the market, their LL product. The "eco" here refers to the reduction in trash/waste that comes from not throwing away a burned-out bulb or two. True as far as it goes, but it's not as convincing as what Sylvania did with their Eco-Bright bulbs -- they used the same techniques employed to make + bulbs (+30, +50, +60, +80, +100, etc) but struck a different balance, winding up with a reduced-wattage bulb that gave about +20 performance compared to a standard bulb. The Eco-Bright bulbs are discontinued, so I guess fractionally lower headlamp fuel consumption didn't catch the fancy of people shopping for bulbs for their 11mpg SUVs.

-Virgil- said:

I'd like to learn more about the vibration-resistance of these bulbs. More technical detail, that is; there's already more than enough promotional babble about it.

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What I'd like to know is how many g's a normal bulb can withstand so I'll know if I should whistle, or just go "whoa", when I consider this one survives 10g's.

I read somewhere, I forget where, that headlamp designers expect up to 10 G's when designing the assembly. Forgot the source, so no idea how reliable it is. I think it might have been a NAL presentation floating on the web somewhere.

I don't know for sure, but it seems to me that 10g is within the amount of mechanical shock that could be expected in normal driving on rough roads (potholes, etc). So yeah, like Alaric said: how different is is this bulb's claimed 10g-resistance versus a regular bulb?

What does 108 call for in terms of vibrational resistance? I think it does call for testing that, right?

Also, I can't remember one time when I broke a bulb due to a pothole. Perhaps these bulbs are aimed more at the third-world, given that the document was on a Malaysian site?

Also, it would be nice to know if the 10 G's claim applies after X hours of use, when the filament is weakened from evaporation and uneven deposition.

Edit: I was on a phone earlier so looking up 108 wasn't very easy. I see that Appendix B calls for a setting up what appears to be a vibrating table that the lamp is attached to. Not sure how to convert this to G's.

Interestingly, the first link in the original post has been updated. There's now a picture of the bulbs in question.

PDF Warning:

https://www.download.p4c.philips.com/files/9/9012xvgs2/9012xvgs2_pss_engsg.pdf

I don't see any sort of "gradient coating." Or perhaps the entire bulb has a very light blue coating? There seems to be a very, very slight hint of a coating in this picture, but it might just be the packaging. I remember the first time I examined a Silverstar bulb, and I barely saw the blue coating on the bulb while it was still in the packaging.

https://www.philips.com.my/c-p/9012XVGS2/x-tremevision-g-force-car-headlight-bulb

-Virgil- said:

(I also notice this sell sheet doesn't seem to exist except in Malaysia).

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The sell sheet now seems to exist in more countries, such as Indonesia (co.id domain), Japan (co.jp), Korea (co.kr), Vietnam, etc. I hope this doesn't end up as an Asian-exclusive.

Ls400 said:

PDF Warning:

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I ducked and it didn't hit me. Thanks for the warning!

I hope this doesn't end up as an Asian-exclusive.

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Why? Unless it's just demonstrably better, why do we need it here?

It's possible that some of the modifications to greatly enhance shock and vibration resistance could mean reduced performance. While not on the scale of a "rough service" household light bulb, it may have such changes to the supports and filament itself that the beam is compromised. Sure, they promise it's a +130 bulb, but then they also say "The bright white light of up to 3450 Kelvin is significantly whiter than standard headlamps"-- white light is white. Non-white light is non-white.

I think that the Philips XtremeVision 9012 would be good for competition if it's a legitimate high-performance bulb, as most stores only carry the Sylvania line of 9012 bulbs. The 9012 bulb is fairly popular, having been used in one of the best-selling vehicles (RAV4) and some Silverados, among other vehicles.

Vosla 9012+30 is "available," if you know where to look (GM dealership, online, or Sylvania XtraVision). But I feel that most people would be hard-pressed to choose the XtraVision/Volsa +30 9012 when there's an obvious "top-of-the-line"/"better" choice available on the rack at AutoZone called the Silverstar Ultra 9012.

And regarding the performance of Philips G-Force bulbs: it appears that there is no trade-off in performance, at least according to AutoExpress. Yes, I know this is a blog and not AutoExpress, but AutoExpress seems to like to delete previous year test results so I can't find a better source for the quote.

https://iaaf01.worldsecuresystems.com/news-item/lumileds-take-performance-to-the-x-treme-1

Now, we just need an Osram Nightbreaker Laser 9012, where Osram has finally figured out the last square nanometers of the bulb that can be tinted blue without decreasing performance.

I hope this doesn't end up as an Asian-exclusive

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There's pretty much no such thing, in this Internet era.

they also say "The bright white light of up to 3450 Kelvin is significantly whiter than standard headlamps"-- white light is white. Non-white light is non-white.

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Well, yeah, but in this case I think that might be splitting hairs unnecessarily. There's technical correctness -- any light within the SAE/ECE white box is white -- and then there's word-efficiency and "punch" for marketing propaganda. It might be technically more correct to say the light isn't as brown, but it's easier and more readily/intuitively understandable to the general public to just say "whiter". I save my objections to claims of "whiter light" for when they're applied fraudulently (blue/purple tinted bulb capsules).

I found the actual AutoExpress test of a Philips XV G-Force, and for some reason, it gets a 3.5/5 but they aren't very clear on what exactly wasn't top-of-the-class.

Alaric Darconville said:

It's possible that some of the modifications to greatly enhance shock and vibration resistance could mean reduced performance. While not on the scale of a "rough service" household light bulb, it may have such changes to the supports and filament itself that the beam is compromised.

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At least they say it's on-par with the regular XV in terms of performance. Too bad AutoExpress tests are not as detailed as they once were.

https://webcache.googleusercontent....adlight-bulbs-2018+&cd=14&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

AutoExpress said:

THIS is so new we had to pick our samples from dozens of bulbs, and it takes a different approach to development. While most recent advances have focused on brighter or whiter light, this has been developed for durability. Light output is the same as on the company's XtremeVision 130 (prices are expected to be on par as well), but it is more robust and should last longer when driven over poor roads. The result was two well-matched bulbs, which were up there with all but the very best.

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Hah! That "report" on AutoExpress reads to me like "This bulb doesn't actually exist yet, but Philips wants it promoted because it's going to be their newest thing, and since they're letting us use their facilities for our bulb tests, we kinda had to go along, so here, let us wave our hands around for you".

Since several posts have been about Philips' fantastical claims, now I'm curious: Is the 13 bar fill pressure anything remarkable? How does this compare with other 9012s?

I don't know specific numbers, but I do know that high performance halogen lamps in general are filled to very high pressures.

Ls400 said:

Since several posts have been about Philips' fantastical claims, now I'm curious: Is the 13 bar fill pressure anything remarkable? How does this compare with other 9012s?

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Nothing unusual there. 13 or 14 atmospheres is pretty common in halogen bulbs.