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Thread: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

  1. #31
    Johnnyh's Avatar
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    Default New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    I directly compared my Rotary 4k SW40 R9080 against the only 4k SST-20 I have, an Emisar D42. The tint of the SST-20 is very nice but I prefer the SW40 but that’s just me. I would think that the SST-20 is more efficient. Will there be a significant run time boost with it over the SW45? Or for that matter, any of the Nichias?
    Last edited by Johnnyh; 11-10-2019 at 11:49 PM.
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

  2. #32
    Flashaholic* lion504's Avatar
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    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    It’s going to be hard to dethrone the SW40 and SW45. In the tint category, those are hall of fame emitters. Interested to see the SST-20 and SW40 with crossed beams. If you have a pic please share.
    “Word salad, a tell for cognitive dissonance.” -Scott Adams [&JEDNKH] [&RSDNW] [&My_Lights]

  3. #33

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    I'm looking forward to this offering. I'm thinking it might dethrone the xpg hicri I have been using. Unfortunately I just don't like the nichia. The tint and beam shape of the xpg is superior for my use. I just wonder if the 225 lumens will be enough to make a big difference compared to my 120 xpg. Any thoughts? I try other things and always go back to the 120. If the sst matches the beam profile of the xpg it will be a real winner. A slightly cooler led would also be nice at times.

  4. #34

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by nmiller View Post
    Unfortunately I just don't like the nichia. The tint and beam shape of the xpg is superior for my use....
    I also like the XP-G, mine is warmer than yours. And we differ in that I Love the 219b's
    here is a pic


    for anyone interested in the 4000k SST-20, the cheapest way to find out is to pick up a Sofirn C01s, which uses the SST4000k.. then you can do your own comparisons. That LED is also available in the FW3a.. I mention these only as a low cost way to experience the LED. The beam of the HDS is tighter, as the reflector is deeper than either of those lights.
    Last edited by jon_slider; 11-11-2019 at 10:39 AM.

  5. #35

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post

    for anyone interested in the 4000k SST-20, the cheapest way to find out is to pick up a Sofirn C01s, which uses the SST4000k

    Bin code. Bin code. Bin code.
    I VERY much doubt that they are using the same, or even near as to the binning HDS is using on the SST-20.
    It would be a bit like trying to find out what a girl is like by sleeping with her sisters.
    Last edited by Hogokansatsukan; 11-11-2019 at 10:52 AM.
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  6. #36

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    (though Henry put his old worn tail on it so I would bring it back... no kidding.). I'll figure something out but I'm not going to let this one slip out of my grimy little fingers anytime soon.


    I wasn't kidding.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    Bin code. Bin code. Bin code.
    I VERY much doubt that they are using the same, or even near as to the binning HDS is using on the SST-20.
    It would be a bit like trying to find out what a girl is like by sleeping with her sisters.
    That’s a good point. The same is probably true for Emisar.

    ...But if the girls were identical twins...?
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Bought one in rotary. Now I just have to wait and see if it can replace my high-cri HDS Clicky 120 lumen I’ve carried since 2011... or the backup for it in orange that I’ve never carried...

  9. #39

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    They are now up on the Custom Page.
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  10. #40
    *Flashaholic* PoliceScannerMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    I love to see well worn HDS's.

  11. #41

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    Bin code. Bin code. Bin code.
    I dont know much about how to read bin codes, so here is my limited research results:
    (pic is a link to the datasheet)


    It looks to me like the SST-20-W40H-A120-J5402 spans 4 tint bins
    the one used in the latest FW3a is FD2

    Which Tint Bin is HDS using? (I note the R9 is 79)

    regarding the Sofirn C01s:
    "Btw, I noticed in my three C01S flashlights (BLF editions) that when measured in the hotspot, two have comparable tint with duv +0.042, CRI 96.7, and R9 88/89. The third is just a bit nicer with duv +0.029, CRI 97.6 and R9 92. "

    that says that the tint of the Sofirn SST-20 4000k is above the BBL and the R9 is higher than the LED HDS chose.
    Last edited by jon_slider; 11-11-2019 at 12:07 PM.

  12. #42

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post
    I dont know much about how to read bin codes, so here is my limited research results:
    I'm going to give you homework as you like to do research. Look and see which you can buy from the manufacturer or from distributors. I don't mean what the manufacturer lists on the spec sheets, but what is ACTUALLY AVAILABLE from a distributor.... I'll wait.

    Also, do not assume that all the emitters in one bin code will produce the same results. They do not. There is a range of both CRI and color temp within the exact same bin code. We put 10 on our integrating sphere (all from exactly the same bin code) and no two will have the same numbers. We picked the worst for what we advertised (quite contrary to how another company would do it). In the exact same bin, some had better CRI or where more efficient, and the color temp wasn't exactly the same. This applies to ALL emitters be it this one, a Nichia, Samsung... it doesn't matter the manufacturer.

    Henry insists on publishing the worst of the bin... not the best.
    Honestly, testing 1 emitter doesn't mean crap to me or to HDS. We test a decent sample from the bin to make sure they all fall within the bin like they are supposed to, and in the past, that hasn't always happened. Some manufacturers are quite overly optimistic... or dyslexic when it comes to binning.
    Last edited by Hogokansatsukan; 11-11-2019 at 12:25 PM.
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  13. #43

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    I'm going to give you homework as you like to do research.
    there are 494 in stock at Mouser

    the FB4 tint is available preflowed here

    but the FD2 is prefered

    which tint bin did HDS get?

  14. #44

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post
    there are 494 in stock at Mouser

    the FB4 tint is available preflowed here

    but the FD2 is prefered

    which tint bin did HDS get?
    What exactly is the tint code from Mauser... I'll wait.
    Thor's Hammer Custom Leather
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  15. #45

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post
    there are 494 in stock at Mouser

    the FB4 tint is available preflowed here

    but the FD2 is prefered

    which tint bin did HDS get?
    Kaidomain is not a distributor. They are a retailer.
    Thor's Hammer Custom Leather
    HDS Systems Henry's Mini-Me
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  16. #46

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    What exactly is the tint code from Mauser... I'll wait.

    SST-20-W40H-A120-J5402
    is that what you mean?

    it looks like the one you posted has tint above the BBL (aka positive Duv), potentially FB4

    I keep asking you for the tint bin HDS chose.. cause I cant tell from the code

  17. #47

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by jon_slider View Post
    SST-20-W40H-A120-J5402
    is that what you mean?

    it looks like the one you posted has tint above the BBL (aka positive Duv), potentially FB4

    I keep asking you for the tint bin HDS chose.. cause I cant tell from the code
    What I am telling you to do, is to order either from the manufacturer or from one of their distributors a specific tint code.
    Until you come back with a link from either the manufacturer or a distributor where you can order a specific tint code, my mouth is sealed.

    I want you to fully understand what is involved in this.
    Thor's Hammer Custom Leather
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  18. #48

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Jon: Never had a 219b. Your pic looks great. I just prefer the beam pattern of the xpg. The Nichias never seem to throw far enough. I’ve also found that the nichia is rosy in color. At least we have options!

    gravel: looking forward to your thoughts.

  19. #49

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    What I am telling you to do, is to order either from the manufacturer or from one of their distributors a specific tint code.
    Until you come back with a link from either the manufacturer or a distributor where you can order a specific tint code, my mouth is sealed.

    I want you to fully understand what is involved in this.
    I’m guessing You buy whatever they send you and it’s a crap show of a lottery sorting through for days getting a few of the emitters if any at all that you wanted. That’s why when you get a specific bin code from a budget light you are getting whatever it was they decided to throw in there.
    Big butnotsomuch-burly

  20. #50

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigburly912 View Post
    I’m guessing You buy whatever they send you and it’s a crap show of a lottery sorting through for days getting a few of the emitters if any at all that you wanted. That’s why when you get a specific bin code from a budget light you are getting whatever it was they decided to throw in there.
    You are very close. We do specify bins and get as specific as possible, which often involves calling distributors to read off the bin codes on the reels (and then hope that is what they send). We no longer buy reels as we would rather sell out and move to something else (variety). Why, just go back and read through this thread... some want 3000k instead of 4000k. Sure, we could order a bunch of different tints at the same time (we have before) and it makes it horrible to keep track of on our end binning and sorting ourselves and then put each light on the sphere again before sending it out to make sure we didn't mix something up... so I would rather have one offered, get them out, then move along to something else.

    I can save you time Jon... you can't order a tint code either from Luminus, the manufacturer or from the distributors. The only way to do it is to order several reels and hope one has what you are looking for, or to find someone who was lucky enough to do so and is honest about what they have. We have gone this route in the past, but prefer not to if we can help it. Even so, it involves a lot of emitters on the integrating sphere. More than half of what we tested on this SST would easily go over 135 lumens and a few were up into 96 CRI... but Henry uses the worst of the bunch... the weakest link as it were. We also don't go necessarily by what the manufacturer states, but by what we find on the sphere and this being the first time we have used an emitter by Luminus, we approached it with a healthy dose of skepticism.

    Anyone remember when HDS didn't tell what emitter was being used? LOL!
    Thor's Hammer Custom Leather
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  21. #51

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan View Post
    Anyone remember when HDS didn't tell what emitter was being used? LOL!
    We’ve come a long way baby!:-)

    HDS has been on the cutting edge of High CRI options, since you took my advice to offer the sw45k 9080 (lol)

  22. #52

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    I'm trying to decide between this and the limited XPL (Both is not an option).
    I know CRI is a big thing, but I like the wider beam of the XPL.
    Last edited by greatscoot; 11-11-2019 at 04:34 PM.
    "It's not rocket surgery"

  23. #53
    Modernflame's Avatar
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    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by greatscoot View Post
    I'm trying to decide between this and the limited XPL (Both is not an option).
    I know CRI is a big thing, but I like the wider beam of the XPL.
    All of my HDSes have Nichias and I wouldn't take them any other way. With that said, I think that the combination of the HDS reflector with a Nichia 219 results in a beam with insufficient spill at lower output levels. I can get the spill I need, but I have to crank them up a bit. Just something to consider if you like the wider beam.

    Edit: I've never seen an HDS with an XPL, so I can't compare. Maybe someone else can help?
    “May it be a light to you in dark places, when all other lights go out.”
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  24. #54

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Modernflame View Post
    All of my HDSes have Nichias and I wouldn't take them any other way. With that said, I think that the combination of the HDS reflector with a Nichia 219 results in a beam with insufficient spill at lower output levels. I can get the spill I need, but I have to crank them up a bit. Just something to consider if you like the wider beam.

    Edit: I've never seen an HDS with an XPL, so I can't compare. Maybe someone else can help?
    This is my experience as well and would like a little more spill at lower levels, as I use the lower levels way more than the higher levels.
    "It's not rocket surgery"

  25. #55

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Just ordered one of these...... Thanks for bringing new stuff to production. This will be fun.
    Last edited by klackey; 11-11-2019 at 06:52 PM.

  26. #56

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    OK. Now that I am done shipping stuff out the door and have more time... I started writing this earlier and can now finish it up.

    I wanted to take this time to point out a few more emitter nuances and why we test a buttload of them. I believe that "buttload" is a technical term used by engineers smarter than me.
    As I mentioned before, testing just one emitter doesn't mean anything. We also try to test most IN OUR LIGHTS... but let's start with interesting emitter facts.
    They are all different. This is why they are binned. A bin is simply a grouping of "like" emitters. No two are going to be exactly the same nor are they going to behave the same. This is especially true when you change things like temperature and voltage. They are binned according to a specific temperature. Most manufacturers are binning now at 85 degrees Celsius. Raise or lower this, and you could be in another bin. Most manufacturers will show some of this "shift" in the spec sheets both regarding temperature and voltage, but again, this is more of a generalization and to know "exactly" what one emitter is doing, you have to test that one emitter, and when I say "one" emitter, I mean that exact one... not one of a group but the exact one lone emitter. Then test another... and another... and another... and another and pretty soon, you have a group that is hopefully representative of the larger group and not a CNN poll.


    Tint shift. How the emitter is driven is very important here like what I stated above. Now if one person somewhere tests one emitter with unspecified driver and finds it to be the holy grail of holy grails... it may not turn out to be so when installed in a light with some random driver but boy, that emitter will sell like hotcakes on the internet. I've actually never ordered pancakes from the internet, but you get my meaning. Now, some bins are good for some applications and not worth a fart in a sandstorm in others.

    Let's take what we know from the internet so far... The SST-20 FD2 yada yada yada is totally the cats meow when driven like you stole it, and turns to puke green at low levels. If only 1 emitter was tested, well, this could be a bad die. Looks great at full power, turns to crap when you dial it down. Since this doesn't seem to be the case as more people have stated this in their lights, it probably wasn't a single bad die test but a characteristic of emitter and HOW it is driven at low levels.

    Now, I am going to go off on a tangent here. HDS. What is the ONE driving force behind HDS? The light working when you need it and getting you home.... or out of a cave. The damn thing just has to work. It isn't about setting fires and impressing your friends for the couple of weeks the light works until you drop it from 3 feet onto concrete. It isn't made to impress anyone with the massive "wall of light" for the 20 seconds you can hold it. In fact, I would say if you purchased an HDS and use it predominantly on the max setting, you are a fool. It's not what it is designed for and there are other options out there far better and cheaper for this. It's for those who want to use the right amount of light, not the maximum amount of light.... at least, that is the HDS philosophy. Yours may vary and that is great, but HDS probably isn't for you then.

    Bearing all this in mind, why would we pick up a specific bin code and tint code that didn't match this philosophy? Being that we feel our customers are mostly using our lights on lower levels than max, well, we account for that.

    So, while the FD2 may be great as a barn burner, it doesn't do what we want... stay nice at lower levels which we feel most HDS users are using. Now, just try and convince people of this on the internet... while they go on to complain about it turning green when low in other lights.

    Remember, I didn't announce what emitter would be the next high CRI until just a few days ago. I wasn't going to because OUR testing wasn't done and we may have tossed them all into the trash.

    Let me show you some screen shots of SST-20 yada yada yada that we are using. This is the same bin AND tint bin as the previous graphs, but not the EXACT same emitter. I took it out of my holster before I left and tossed it into the integrating sphere so I would have screen shots to show my point here.

    My exact light (with Henry's worn out tail)


    Notice the R9, 78.1 ... the lumen output, 230, and the CRI... 93.76

    Now, and this is the important part, look at the next set of data when the light is turned down to 1.249 lumens. Yes, basically 1.2 lumens.



    R9 is now 92.6 and the CRI is 96.62. You will see the tint shift was more to red, not green. This is both due to the tint bin (which is not the most honorable and favorable and sooooo sought after FD2... cough! cough!) and because HDS has a proprietary way of running the lights at lower levels (you will find this on the HDS FAQ page... what is tint control).

    Do not for a second think that every emitter in this bin and tint is going to be exactly the same as above. None. Not a single one will be the same... but they will be "close".


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  27. #57
    Johnnyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    “..... It isn't about setting fires and impressing your friends for the couple of weeks the light works until you drop it from 3 feet onto concrete. It isn't made to impress anyone with the massive wall of light for the 20 seconds you can hold it....”

    This had me laughing...only because I’ve been there! I hate to admit it but I have gone over and dabbled with these things...they are kind of like the proverbial low rent romance, third rate rendezvous...a hot one night stand...you wake up the next day wondering...WTF did I do that for? Then I go back home...
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

  28. #58
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    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Order placed for a rotary with this new 225 high CRI...decisions, decisions now with all these emitter choices. Thank you HDS! I think I made the right choice for my needs.

  29. #59

    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Quote Originally Posted by Hogokansatsukan
    R9 is now 92.6 and the CRI is 96.62. You will see the tint shift was more to red, not green. This is both due to the tint bin (which is not the most honorable and favorable and sooooo sought after FD2... cough! cough!)…
    you had me at R9>90 at low levels

    your choice of LED hugs the BBL very nicely
    thanks for taking the time to post the nerdy gritty
    much appreciated

    kudos for offering such great options in High CRI and High R9

    Quote Originally Posted by thaugen View Post
    Order placed for a rotary with this new 225 high CRI...I think I made the right choice for my needs.
    congrats!
    hard to go wrong with a High CRI Rotary in any flavor
    Last edited by jon_slider; 11-11-2019 at 10:39 PM.

  30. #60
    Johnnyh's Avatar
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    Default Re: New 225 Lumen high CRI HDS

    Well, after having my interest piqued, I went over to the HDS site and began reading about tint control..all good. Informative. Then I got into the Articles tab..read the “LED Flashlight White Paper” article...too much knowledge for my reptilian brain...got a headache...then I noticed the article called “An Abridged Collection of Interdisciplinary Laws”. What a great collection!
    Great read, especially since I could understand much of it..the law that especially stood out is Clarke’s 3rd Law.
    It states: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”.

    Totally agree! Whatever your doing to those lights, keep working that magic Henry!
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

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