Which AA rechargeable?

I've just got a XTAR VC4 Charger and my Nitecore MT1A (AA) uses duracell alkalines pretty fast, I'm considering going to rechargeables for this, an like anything in the light world there's a bewildering choice to pick from.

I don't know if Li-Ion is an option or good ol NiMH, what batteries offer best capacity and the ability to recharge multiple times without a loss in capacity.

I'm not actually sure what a regular alkaline AA even is in mAh

Over to you guys, give me your recommendations.

(I'm hearing good things about Eneloop Pro)

Panasonic eneloops are the top recommended aa rechargables here I believe. In regard to the pro, they have less amount of recharges compared to the white ones. With the same if not +/- 50mah or so per battery

Eneloop are always most recommended, they are tried and true.

The regular white ones are generally best for most applications. Low self discharge and longer life span.

However, it doesn't hurt to invest in some Pros either. Extra 20% or so more capacity but the trade off is they have a shorter lifespan than the original ones.

You may always make a qualified decision yourself with the help of this wonderful resource: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.php.

Welcome here, tgo! :wave:

tgo said:

I don't know if Li-Ion is an option (..)

Click to expand...

NO. According to product page & manual, the Nitecore MT1A does NOT support Li-ion batteries. For other lights that do support 14500 size Li-ion (same size as AA), it mostly serves to increase peak output. The energy contents of a 14500 Li-ion is comparable to an AA NiMH (both around 3 Wh) so in terms of runtime there's no gain in using AA sized Li-ions.

I'm not actually sure what a regular alkaline AA even is in mAh

Click to expand...

A bit more mAh than NiMH's, but only at low discharge current. For higher discharge currents, the useable capacity is often higher for NiMH's. Then there's non-rechargeable lithium primaries which are better in several respects, but a) expensive and b) non-rechargeable. For an in-depth look, see here: https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.php

However, it doesn't hurt to invest in some Pros either. Extra 20% or so more capacity but the trade off is they have a shorter lifespan than the original ones.

Click to expand...

Note that "lifespan" refers to charge/discharge cycles, not longevity. For an application that eats batteries wholesale, lower capacity means more cycles. If batteries are discharged at a low current, higher capacity means longer time between recharges. So in terms of how long before you need to replace the rechargeables, it might be a wash (can be >10 years with good NiMH's if you don't abuse them).

Many here (including myself) will recommend the regular Eneloops which are 'good enough' and more cost-effective compared to the -Pro's. Or the Eneloop Pro's if cost doesn't matter much but the extra capacity does. For both the regular Eneloops and the Pro's there exist other batteries in the market which are suspected to come from same factories, or built using the same technology / quality control. Essentially the same thing just with a different wrapper (and price tag ). For example some Duracell branded ones ("Duraloops"), from what I've read perhaps even Amazon Basics too, and for myself I ordered some Fujitsu Pro which I suspect to perform similar to Eneloop Pro's (if not from the same factory ), only cheaper. I already have some 'white' Fujitsu branded NiMH's, which afaict behave the same as Eneloops.

In any case you want to get low-self-discharge NiMH's. Things to look for: "pre-charged", "ready to use", "85% charge after 1 year" and similar claims on the package. These are generally higher quality than the non-LSD NiMH's of the old days, and yes... don't discharge themselves as quickly. Only exception might be if you want a few extra mAh's and you have an application where the batteries are recharged literally on a daily basis. But even then the Eneloop Pro's might be a better choice.

Bottom line: Eneloops! :bow: Eneloop Pro if you don't mind the higher cost. Or do some research if you want similar quality for fewer $.

Religion is no good. Use science:



Regarding prices at eu.nkon.nl, for example. A pack of 4 Eneloops Pro — €13.95, a pack of 4 Fujitsu Pro — €8.95. You be the judge...

I've got a couple of ReCyko AAA rechargeables from Prometheus Lights / Darksucks and they've been performing well. Both the Eneloop AAA and these are 800 mAh.

It seems to me that Eneloop came to a point when they think their name only is worth additional 50% price.

vadimax said:

It seems to me that Eneloop came to a point when they think their name only is worth additional 50% price.

Click to expand...

You're also paying for consistency and quality control. Despite many that claim cheaper batteries are just re-labelled Eneloops, tests seem to indicate otherwise when you measure the self-discharge rate and internal resistance, and often the discharge curves at high amps clearly prove they're different.

There are some that are very close, especially if you're shopping for the high-capacity 2450mAh "Pros". Discharge curves of the Laddas vs. the Pros are almost identical, though self-discharge is much higher on the Laddas. They're clearly similar batteries. However, the 2000mAh Laddas vs regular Eneloops are very different, with the Laddas sagging much more at high amps. So, definitely don't assume that just because one type of cell in a brand is similar to Eneloop, that they all are.

IMO, if you're shopping for the regular Eneloops, then get the regular Eneloops. They're going to last over 10 years, and it's not worth trying to get a better deal at 0.1 cents cheaper per cycle. If you're shopping for the high-capacity Pros, then you're probably not as worried about things like the number of cycles or self-discharge rates. So, get something cheaper, because it's not going to last 10 years anyway.

I have mentioned Fujitsu, not Ladda

Something from history: year 2010, Sanyo Energy Twicell Co., Ltd. and Sanyo Energy Tottori Co., Ltd. shares were transferred from Sanyo Electric, and renamed their company names to FDK Twicell Corporation and FDK Tottori Co. Ltd.

Both Eneloops and Fujitsu cells are being manufactured by FDK. Still insist on different quality of cells? I guess Panasonic labeled NiMH batteries are FDK product as well.

More of that, sometimes you may even find non-branded FDK batteries in cheap factory wraps: https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/nimh/aa-size/fdk-nimh-industrial-1650-mah.html. Making a battery pack you really don't care about niceties of individual cells

vadimax said:

You may always make a qualified decision yourself with the help of this wonderful resource: http://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.php.

Click to expand...

I did not know about this tool - thank you for sharing it!

If there's any truth to the conspiracy theory that FDK makes slightly crappier cells for rebrands (never mind that they probably don't know which wrapper is going on when they make the cells), then Eneloop would be one of the brands to avoid since Panasonic doesn't own the "Eneloop" factory in Japan and never did, making Eneloops just another rebrand. And besides Panasonic is willing to put their Eneloop brand on cheaper Chinese cells to maximize profits in some markets – why would they pay FDK more for cells that are better than Laddas?

If you believe in the conspiracy at all, then FDK's own Fujitsu branded cells are clearly the best.

My historical excerpt comes from here: https://eneloop101.com/batteries/eneloop-history/

One more excerpt:

• 2013
  
  April 26, 2013, eneloop officially became a Panasonic brand. By doing this, the trademark of the SANYO brand in Japan was terminated.

• 2014
  
  Panasonic started producing eneloop batteries in China. The "made in China" eneloops are available in the Asian market, including New Zealand and Australia. The Made in Japan batteries for the Japanese -, North American- and European market.
  
  
  P.S.: All of a sudden a question: those SANYO GA18650 that are considered to be very good... Yes! Chinese — "SANYO brand in Japan was terminated".

To clarify my above praise of Eneloops, I am only referring to the Japanese Eneloops. The ones made in China have been tested here before, and they're not anywhere close to the quality of the Japanese ones. If the FDK brand are also identical cells to the Japanese Eneloops, great! I haven't seen the tests to verify that, but it could very well be true.

Laddas, at the very least when comparing them to "regular Eneloops", they're nowhere near the same (based on discharge curves). So if they're coming out of the same factory, they've got to be doing something different. Probably true for Amazon versions as well. Not sure about Duraloops, but from what I remember, they may be an earlier generation.

While I highly doubt that there is any difference between low self discharge FDK cells with different wrappers (it would cost way too much to try to make ever so slightly different cells for each re-brand without mixing them up), I do actually tend to buy Fujiloops when buying on line because they don't make any of their cells in China like Eneloop and most of the other rebrands which have some Japanese and some Chinese cells.

And unlike Eneloops, I have never heard of any counterfeit Fujiloops, though nothing would surprise me when it comes to fakes. I suppose that amazon basics and laddas are pretty safe when it comes to fakes, or at least much safer than Eneloops.

Yes, just like with lithium-ion cells, only buy Eneloops from a reputable dealer. i.e., Not Ebay, Amazon, anywhere in China, etc.

vadimax said:

Religion is no good. Use science:

Regarding prices at eu.nkon.nl, for example. A pack of 4 Eneloops Pro — €13.95, a pack of 4 Fujitsu Pro — €8.95. You be the judge...

Click to expand...

I think for most people it doesn't matter if a rechargeable performs with more capacity or higher voltage at first. I think it's more important how it performs over time and under various conditions. I have two Eneloops that have been in an outdoor weather station for over 5 years. They are charged by a solar panel on the station during the day and run a fan 24x7. They are still going strong, whether the temperature is -2°C or 45°C.

Yeah, I don't buy Eneloop Pros. Too expensive, and a fraction the number of cycles. If I need more capacity, I use an 18650 light.

Even if the Pros were the same price as the regulars, I'd still get the regulars.

I have had very good performance form hi-cap eneloops – I have some eneloop XX's (eneloop called them XX for a short time before they changed it to eneloop Pro) that are over 8 years old and have well over 200 cycles on them that still have the same or slightly higher capacity than new cells. Will they last 2000 cycles? Considering it might take me another 70 years to get to 2000 cycles, I don't care – I will be long gone by then. I think that people who have problems with the hi-cap 'loops might be charging them too fast; I use a slow but excellent BQ CC17 charger that seems to treat cells very gently.


As to price, yeah eneloop brand is too expensive. I have gotten fairly good deals on hi-cap fujiloops on line and I get Duracell Ion cores and energizer hi-cap rebrands when the go on sale in local stores often for less than what standard eneloops go for. I find the extra capacity convenient when I don't what to carry extra cells or have to change them out in the middle of something I'm doing.

For what it's worth, I have some relatively new Eneloop whites I'm using and I've just did a couple full cycle tests on them to check their capacity, and I must say they did not disappoint, on the "discharge" capacity they measured at just over 2000mah and I did just recharge them again last night and they took in just over 2200mah. Right now they're in some Christmas decorations. The 3 batteries I tested are the white Eneloop AA 2000mah and they tracked very evenly with each other with the first full cycle finishing literally all three with the same exact mah capacity, I was impressed. The charger is a La Crosse charger dedicated to nimh AA/AAA batteries only.