Can someone please explain why these blue LED headlights are legal?

Zac88

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I live in a place where everyone drives a pickup truck with aftermarket HID and LED lights installed. I'm always blinded by them and there is no law enforcement on these illegal kits.
Even factory led lights are blinding. If these are OEM then why am I blinded? I know sunlight is about 6000k but why is it horrible in headlights?
Furthermore what is exactly happening to my pupils when I look into these lights? I have so many questions.
 

-Virgil-

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I live in a place where everyone drives a pickup truck with aftermarket HID and LED lights installed. I'm always blinded by them and there is no law enforcement on these illegal kits.

That's a real problem. I don't see it getting better any time soon.

Even factory led lights are blinding.

That's also a real problem, mostly because nobody in America cares about proper headlight aim, and I don't see this one getting better any time soon, either.

If these are OEM then why am I blinded?

US regs allow relatively high levels of glare from low beam headlamps, and that gets a lot worse when the lamps are aimed too high. Aim is not necessarily correct from the factory, and it's almost impossible to get a proper aim check/adjust in most areas of the country.

I know sunlight is about 6000k but why is it horrible in headlights?

It's painful to look at the sun, too.

Furthermore what is exactly happening to my pupils when I look into these lights? I have so many questions.

The mechanisms by which glare causes physical pain are not well understood.
 

idleprocess

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I live in a place where everyone drives a pickup truck with aftermarket HID and LED lights installed. I'm always blinded by them and there is no law enforcement on these illegal kits.
Enforcement varies, although I've yet to hear much praise of how well any given state or locality is doing. Living in the Dallas area - one of many regional capitals of Truckistan - I feel your pain; it's a steady series of jacked-up trucks with fleabay HID kits spewing glare everywhere but where it's needed on the road. For those dudes that put these into incandescent housings, there's the additional party trick of cooked reflector bowls and clouded lenses that further enhance the scatter while markedly reducing the useful output. Suspect that the market is transitioning to cheaper LED bulbs - which glare like HID "kits" but at least don't degrade housings since they cast off roughly zero UV - which is probably a lot of what I'm seeing now.

Honestly, LED lightbars and pods as low beams seem to be easier on other motorists since they have a snowball's chance of a cutoff given that they're at least designed around their LED light sources and use multiple sources rather than a single point source per side. Of course that assumes some semblance of proper aim which is often not the case.

Heck, enforcement is so non-existent that I'm seeing garbage trucks and other fleet heavy vehicles equipped with what seems to be a semi-standard (read: probably the exact same product available from a steadily-rotating series of suppliers on ther 'bay, the 'zon, and the like) 5x7 LED headlamp with 13 discrete emitters in a 4-5-4 pattern that don't look particularly FMVSS 108 compliant.

Even factory led lights are blinding. If these are OEM then why am I blinded? I know sunlight is about 6000k but why is it horrible in headlights?
Furthermore what is exactly happening to my pupils when I look into these lights? I have so many questions.

As -Virgil- has stated, them's the regulations that the OEMs live within. Be nice if adaptive lighting would arrive in the mass market Stateside sooner rather than later, but one suspects that it will linger in the upper tiers of the market for the better part of a decade and will ultimately fail to be the panacea we'd like it to be.

High CCT is probably around to stay in automotive lighting since that's the sweet spot in terms of maximum overlap of lumens per watt and yield in the LED production business. Be nice if the OEMs would push for ≤5000K rather than >6000K, but what sells is often different than what satisfies and the former is more important to the OEMs than the latter; the market has desired higher CCTs since HID first appeared decades ago thus a very real commercial imperative exists.
 
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peter yetman

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Thanks for the explanations, guys.
We seem to suffer the same problem with the new breed of headlights over here, I don't know how well enforced it is, though.
I tend to breathe a sigh of relief when a car with incandescents drives towards me.
Also, am I wrong but do some cars have a sort of pre-flash before they dip?
P
 

XeRay

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I'm pretty sure the sun is 4300K NOT 6000K...

It depends on many factors but clear sunny days are more in the 5000 or 5500K range, overcast reduces it. Bottom line it depends on atmospheric conditions at the moment wherever you are on the surface.
 

Zac88

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Thanks everyone for the replies.
Are there any good write ups or study's that explain the key differences between halogen and hid/led? And all the pros and cons?
Would like to know exactly the science behind why we changed to this type of lighting
 

Alaric Darconville

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Thanks everyone for the replies.
Are there any good write ups or study's that explain the key differences between halogen and hid/led? And all the pros and cons?
Yes.

Really, what you are asking for is extremely broad, and there's TONS of stuff out there that shows the major differences between the light sources. Plenty of it on this forum and at https://danielsternlighting.com.

A major con of HID is that it's transitional technology and is going away in favor of LED. But halogen isn't going anywhere for a long while because it's just too deeply entrenched.

We're changing to LED because of the luminous efficacy of LEDs, and development of LED emitters for an incredibly broad range of applications is ongoing, meaning more breakthroughs in performance, lumen maintenance, and thermal management are being made, which are important for automotive applications. The packaging requirements for LEDs (no, not store shelf packaging) are much lower than for HID; they are electrically less complex than HID (which needs a ballast and igniter).
 
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Alaric Darconville

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A major con of HID is that it's transitional technology and is going away in favor of LED.

I can't imagine any football stadiums switching to LED anytime soon...
The limitations of YOUR imagination are not necessarily the limitations of others' imaginations. While my statement of HID as a transitional technology was somewhat geared towards automotive usage, it's also true that HID will soon be supplanted by LED in other applications, such as industrial and stadium lighting, such as the aforementioned Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, GA. See here.
 
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Random Guy

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LEDs are much further along in taking over the fixed lighting world than they are taking over the automotive world.
 

TechGuru

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Actually its already started for upgrading to LED for baseball and other stadium lighting.

Atlanta's new stadium is all LED for the field.

The limitations of YOUR imagination are not necessarily the limitations of others' imaginations. While my statement of HID as a transitional technology was somewhat geared towards automotive usage, it's also true that HID will soon be supplanted by LED in other applications, such as industrial and stadium lighting, such as the aforementioned Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, GA. See here.


My imagination is not the issue. I just was not aware that LED's of equal lumens and reliability were available yet. I've seen many businesses "convert" or "upgrade" their outdoor lighting and 6 months later I see several of the fixtures no longer functioning correctly. Either half the LED's out in them or totally out. Brick and mortar stores certainly are not selling any decent reliable ones yet that I've seen. Grainger might have some but you sure pay a price for it.

Is there any data on the long term reliability of LED stadium lights?
 

-Virgil-

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Let's keep it on topic, please. We aren't really here to discuss stadium lights.
 

jzchen

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...mostly because nobody in America cares about proper headlight aim... US regs allow relatively high levels of glare from low beam headlamps, and that gets a lot worse when the lamps are aimed too high. Aim is not necessarily correct from the factory, and it's almost impossible to get a proper aim check/adjust in most areas of the country.

I considered purchasing an aiming machine, because I can't find anyone with one who would aim my lamps with said machine. Then I realized there was also a concern with space and proper floor level to use such a device. I notice our garage floor seems to slope down slightly so any water/liquid would tend to flow out. There is also a step up in front of the cars when parked head first...

I know you frown upon the paper on the wall technique, that the tolerances given are too broad, but what if the person aims for dead center of the range? Is that still not good enough?

I'm surprised I've read no stories about a car manufacturer getting sued for poor headlight aim causing an accident since aim is so rampantly foul? Would seem like easy money for a good lawyer. The blinding ones in my area seem to be the illegal modification type, not the OE ones, but maybe I just can't tell which is which. The blinding ones tend to be someone with their high beams on. My wife is guilty of this some as I often find the light stalk pressed forward in her '18 Clarity, not sure why she ends up doing that...
 

-Virgil-

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I considered purchasing an aiming machine, because I can't find anyone with one who would aim my lamps with said machine. Then I realized there was also a concern with space and proper floor level to use such a device.

If the floor's uneven, that's a problem. If it's just slanted/sloped, most machines have compensation for that.

I know you frown upon the paper on the wall technique, that the tolerances given are too broad, but what if the person aims for dead center of the range? Is that still not good enough?

No, it really still only counts as "marginally better than not checking at all". The wide tolerance is only one of the problems. The other is the stack-up of guesses and slop. The floor's not level, the car doesn't get backed up straight back, the headlamps aren't exactly 25 feet from the wall, the wall's not quite vertical, the "look through the back and front windshields to find the center of the car" guess is a guess, etc. After all that slop, exactly what is the "dead center of the range" in meaningful terms? It doesn't exist.

The blinding ones tend to be someone with their high beams on. My wife is guilty of this some as I often find the light stalk pressed forward in her '18 Clarity, not sure why she ends up doing that...

Badly designed displays and controls make it easy to accidentally put on the high beams, not see they're on, and leave them that way.
 
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