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Thread: Manufacturing defect on new MDC Bodies?

  1. #1

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    Default Manufacturing defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Well, I just had my first problem with a Malkoff product. I just purchased a stacked doughnut shrouded MDC CR123 body and it does not work properly. Apon further investigation I have discovered why and it appears to be a manufacturing defect. It looks like the newest bodies have seen a design change and now are anodized on the inside of the tube as well(a nice upgrade). The problem is, the anodizing was ran up too high near the threads and blocks the negative current path to the dropin causing an intermittent connection, flickering, and often failure to even power up.

    Does anyone else have this issue? Was it just one run of bodies or all of them? I am not sure how to handle this as I bought the body used(new, never carried) and this wasn't disclosed to me. I'm not sure if I should contact Gene or the seller. Kind of a weird situation I was not expecting as I already own 5 different Malkoff bodies(4 of them MDC)and several heads and dropins.

    Here are some pics of the issue...



    You can see the chamfered portion where the dropin mates appears to have been anodized when it should have been left bare. Correction: Cell compartment ID's are the same on my samples +/-.

    What do you guys think? How should I handle this weird situation?

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    Last edited by Tachead; 01-23-2020 at 01:53 PM. Reason: Softened, I tend to sound harsher then intended.

  2. #2
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    I had this problem with one of my AA tubes. There was a little anodizing on the very face of the body.I used a piece of 500 grit paper to remove it. Havenít had a problem since
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Quote Originally Posted by thermal guy View Post
    I had this problem with one of my AA tubes. There was a little anodizing on the very face of the body.I used a piece of 500 grit paper to remove it. Havenít had a problem since
    There shouldn't be anodizing on the entire chamfered portion in addition to the top face imo. If I put a Malkoff dropin on top of the body it barely touches the flat top portion and mainly covers the chamfer. I can see if I can mic it.

    I thought about emery cloth or, I could use chemical means to strip the anno on the chamfer but, really shouldn't have to as it's a brand new body right and I would risk the dropin not sitting low enough to make contact then(it barely touches now). I would rather send it back and go with a different body(or the old one) if anything. I just can't risk intermittent contact with the use I have planed for this light(my life is in the line). I already have 2 of the non-shrouded versions of this body and love them but, am having issues with it turning on in my pocket(I run clipped inside weak hand front pocket). Both of them don't have any anodizing on the inside(earlier run I am guessing)so there is no issue. That is why I say it is a manufacturing defect. I like the new anodizing on the inside but, it never should have been applied to the chamfer imo.

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    Last edited by Tachead; 01-09-2020 at 11:57 AM.

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Here, so you can see what I mean. It's hard to show but, you can actually see the anodizing around most of the circumference of the body head, where the dropin bottom meets it, which is only on the chamfered portion(not the flat top). I would have to remove a significant amount of the anodizing for it to make reliable contact. The entire chamfer should be bare or the flat portion should be much wider. I could order a couple of Oveready Beryllium Copper Spring washers but, depending how thick they are, it would make my VME bezels sit high.


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    Last edited by Tachead; 01-09-2020 at 11:00 AM.

  5. #5
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Yes. The very top should be free of anodizing. Like I said I just used a piece of fineĒ500 gritĒ paper. Worked like a charm.

    Oh ya I see what you mean on my tube the module hits the very top of my tube so thatís what my problem was.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    send pics to Gene explaining what's up see what he tells you to do, he might tell you just send it in
    ..nothing changes nothing...

  7. #7
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Yes without a doubt get hold of the man. He will make it right.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Ok, thanks guys. I was just a little worried to contact Gene as I bought the body second hand(the seller probably should have disclosed this issue but, maybe he didn't try a Malkoff dropin with it?). Anyway, I guess I will contact Gene and see what he says, I just hate bugging the man and taking him away from making us more good stuff.

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  9. #9

    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    tac follow up with us letting us know what Gene says. incase we ever run into this issue ourselves
    ..nothing changes nothing...

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Quote Originally Posted by wicky998 View Post
    tac follow up with us letting us know what Gene says. incase we ever run into this issue ourselves
    Will do. I'm going to wait a bit though as I have a package coming tomorrow or early next week from them and it has a 16650 body in it. I just want to make sure it doesn't have the same issue.

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  11. #11
    *Flashaholic* thermal guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Just checked both my 2XAA tubes are. Anodized on the ID. Some models must have it and some do not.
    If i had one day left to live i would want to be at my workplace.Because every day is like a frickin eternity.

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Yep, I have 4 MDC bodies now and another arriving soon(16650). So far, 3 of the 4 aren't anodized on the inside. Different runs I am guessing. The anodizing on the inside is definitely an upgrade, the problem is it shouldn't have been applied to the chamfered part of the top of the head. That way, no matter how the dropin sits, it will still make full contact.

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    Last edited by Tachead; 01-09-2020 at 03:22 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    hmm, I'll check my mdcs when I get home. I have the "stacked donut" 123 body and the smooth 1xaa
    ..nothing changes nothing...

  14. #14

    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    both of mine have the ano inside the tube
    ..nothing changes nothing...

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Quote Originally Posted by wicky998 View Post
    both of mine have the ano inside the tube
    Yeah, if I had to guess the newest ones have it.

    Thanks for checking your stock guys.

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  16. #16

    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    [QUOTE=Tachead;5359642]Thanks for checking your stock guys. /QUOTE]

    Np,

    yea i ordered mine within the last two months.

    did you talk with gene about this, you have me curious now
    ..nothing changes nothing...

  17. #17

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    [QUOTE=wicky998;5359649]
    Quote Originally Posted by Tachead View Post
    Thanks for checking your stock guys. /QUOTE]

    Np,

    yea i ordered mine within the last two months.

    did you talk with gene about this, you have me curious now
    See post #10.

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  18. #18
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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    When the rest of your stuff arives, I'm sure Gene would want to know if there's an inherent problem with his gear.
    If there is, he'll be able to head it off before it becomes a headache.
    P
    "O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" He chortled in his joy.

  19. #19

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    When the rest of your stuff arives, I'm sure Gene would want to know if there's an inherent problem with his gear.
    If there is, he'll be able to head it off before it becomes a headache.
    P
    Yes, I will definitely be letting him know(although he may see the thread first anyway). I just hope the 16650 body I ordered doesn't have the same issue. This is definitely something that needs to be changed with his anodizer/machine shop going forward as these bodies(my sample anyway)are not made right as can be seen from my pics. I still plan to do some measurements with my micrometer/calipers to further illustrate how out of spec the dropin to body connection is.

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    Last edited by Tachead; 01-10-2020 at 08:14 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Malkoff has sold seconds occasionally for a discount maybe that was one of them but Iím sure theyíre tested before they leave the factory. In any event, I think standing it with that chamfered part soaking it in a plate of liquid plummer was a suggestion someone used in the past. As long as you donít mistake the wifeís fine china for a cheap plate. A search for removing anodizing comes up with some helpful threads
    a single sunbeam is enough to drive away many shadows- St. Francis of Assissi

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Quote Originally Posted by aginthelaw View Post
    Malkoff has sold seconds occasionally for a discount maybe that was one of them but Iím sure theyíre tested before they leave the factory. In any event, I think standing it with that chamfered part soaking it in a plate of liquid plummer was a suggestion someone used in the past. As long as you donít mistake the wifeís fine china for a cheap plate. A search for removing anodizing comes up with some helpful threads
    I don't think this is a second. Yeah, I know how to fix the issue but, I think I will let Gene decide how we deal with it. Without Gene's permission first, if anything happens, I will be out a bunch of money when I could have just got a properly made replacement. I also, out of principle, shouldn't have to modify a product at this price point to work with its own accessories. If that's the case I would rather go with a body from another company. The other issue is, I want to bring this to his attention so it can be corrected in future runs to save him further issues. I am not worried though, I am sure Gene will make this right as soon as I contact him.

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  22. #22

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    So here are a few quick and dirty measurements. Keep in mind I could only be so accurate as I had to somewhat eyeball it due to the potting and lack of lip on the chamfer. They should be within a few thou though...






    The first pic is the outside diameter of the mating surface of a Malkoff dropin.

    The second pic is the inside diameter of the mating surface of the same dropin.

    The third pic is the inside diameter of the flat unanodized portion of the top of the body or the outside diameter of the anodized portion(top of chamfer).

    The last pic is a repeat from earlier to illustrate the interface between the body and dropin. Notice you can just see some of the anodizing around the perimeter of the outside diameter of the dropin(this is the problem).

    As you can see, the dropin makes nearly no contact with the unanodized portion(4 thou at most), hense the issue. To correct this issue, one of three things needs to be changed with the manufacturing process...

    1. The chamfer needs to not be anodized. This would allow plenty of tolerance to allow the dropin to make full contact with the mating surface on the body.

    2. The chamfer needs to be cut smaller or just debur the inside 90 degree. This would make the unanodized flat at the top of the body larger(wider from ID to OD) which would allow more contact area with the dropin and more wiggle room to prevent intermittent contact.

    3. The outside diameter of the mating surface of the dropin needs to be increased. This would allow the body to stay unchanged as the dropin would now cover the entire flat at the top of the body.

    The third option is probably not an option as I am guessing the base of a P60 is standardized but, I don't know enough about this topic to confirm. Imo number 1 or 2 is the best fix. Number one is my pick as the earlier bodies, before they added the anno inside the battery compartment, work fine with the chamfer how it is and a chamfer allows for easier cell insertion.





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    Last edited by Tachead; 01-10-2020 at 02:56 PM. Reason: Final pic added from earlier to highlight issue. Also clairified point 2.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    I can now see exactly where you're coming from.
    I've never had a VME head so can I ask, is there not an electrical path via the threads? I guess not, otherwise you wouldn't have this problem. How is the dropin prevented from metal to metal contact in the head?
    Sorry, merely curious.
    P
    "O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" He chortled in his joy.

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    I can now see exactly where you're coming from.
    I've never had a VME head so can I ask, is there not an electrical path via the threads? I guess not, otherwise you wouldn't have this problem. How is the dropin prevented from metal to metal contact in the head?
    Sorry, merely curious.
    P
    Yeah, I figured that last post of mine would help people understand. Measurements and illustrations always help(I added a bit more to it now too).

    The entire VME head, including bezel, is anodized. The only way for the negative signal to transfer from the body is by the interface between the base of the dropin and the unanodized top of the body. Hense, it's a rather large issue if that is anodized as well lol.

    No problem at all sir, I find technical discussions fun(although I prefer that they aren't pertaining to issues with my stuff lol).

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    Last edited by Tachead; 01-10-2020 at 11:00 AM.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Thank you so much, that's very helpful.
    P
    "O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" He chortled in his joy.

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    Thank you so much, that's very helpful.
    P
    Anytime

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  27. #27

    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter yetman View Post
    I can now see exactly where you're coming from.
    I've never had a VME head so can I ask, is there not an electrical path via the threads? I guess not, otherwise you wouldn't have this problem. How is the dropin prevented from metal to metal contact in the head?
    Sorry, merely curious.
    P
    I had a similar issue on an Oveready E35 body with my VME head. If it wasn't tightened all the way down, it wouldn't work.
    "It's not rocket surgery"

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    https://imgur.com/a/V0xyy91

    I have old model MDC 123 body, and new model MDC 123 shrouded, unshrouded bodies. Heads are old model MDC 123 CW, new model MDC 123 NW, new model MDC Bodyguard, new(?) model MDC E1 hyper throw, new M61 dropin in VME head, and the last picture shows MDC 123 CW with thin wire add on edge of potted dropin and inside of body. Pictures are showing as I described.
    When I test 3 bodies and 5 heads in combination, only problem was new body with old MDC 123 CW. I add thin (should be thinner than I put it in) wire, works like magic. I think Malkoff changes the inner contact point design both head and bodies. you can see the difference where at potted dropin meet inner body of head from old and new heads in pictures. I am not a flashlight designer but I believe that leads some incompatibility problems not only in Malkoff lines but also with other brand lights.
    Last edited by a1sealbeach; 01-12-2020 at 03:03 PM.

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    There have been changes to both mdc heads and bodies.
    The newer heads have silver coating because Gene was getting a lot of calls which turned out to be user error. To simplify things he added the coating on the threads to ensure contact.

    I haven't seen the anno inside until I saw this thread. Using on an MDC head would be issue free as negative contact is on the threads. I can easily see the issue here.

    Gene doesn't care if items are second hand, he stands by his product and wants the customer to be happy no matter what.

    I personally would just resolve this issue myself rather than paying to ship it to Gene. If it was actually a defect, that would be different. This is an easy fix and not worth the trouble.

    It is good to let Gene know though, so he can talk to the anodizer about it. Just my thoughts

  30. #30

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    Default Re: Manufacturering defect on new MDC Bodies?

    Quote Originally Posted by a1sealbeach View Post
    I have old model MDC 123 body, and new model MDC 123 shrouded, unshrouded bodies. Heads are old model MDC 123 CW, new model MDC 123 NW, new model MDC Bodyguard, new(?) model MDC E1 hyper throw, new M61 dropin in VME head, and the last picture shows MDC 123 CW with thin wire add on edge of potted dropin and inside of body. Pictures are showing as I described.
    When I test 3 bodies and 5 heads in combination, only problem was new body with old MDC 123 CW. I add thin (should be thinner than I put it in) wire, works like magic. I think Malkoff changes the inner contact point design both head and bodies. you can see the difference where at potted dropin meet inner body of head from old and new heads in pictures. I am not a flashlight designer but I believe that leads some incompatibility problems not only in Malkoff lines but also with other brand lights.
    Thank you for this post man, it helps us understand the changes to the MDC heads over the years.

    I hope you don't mind, I am going to post the pictures in the thread so people can see them without going to imgur...







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    Last edited by Tachead; 01-12-2020 at 07:10 PM.

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