Science and God

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brightnorm

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The scientific method can only prove or disprove things that are provable or disprovable by the scientific method , which has led people to say that science can never prove or disprove the existence of God. I remember reading an article in Scientific American quoting some physicists and cosmologists that their work brought the religious ones closer to god, and the "non-believers" closer to the conclusion that there may in fact be a god. A couple of them thought it entirely likely that science would eventually be able to verify God. What irony, God proven by Science!

Brightnorm
 

Rothrandir

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i certainly don't see it as ironic...

in fact, many developments in recent years have done much to provide evidence against evolution.

keep in mind that evolution is only a theory that was started back well over a hundred years ago.
 

tygger

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Guess they'd have to develp a Satan-Detector. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif
 

Sub_Umbra

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I think that most of what passes for understanding is usually just delusional.

All that we have to keep us from the pain of not understanding (hardly) anything in our lives is science and our religious beliefs telling us that we really do know what's going on.

Scientists are just people and they carry the same baggage.

On the positive side, science is usually right more often when it says that something may be possible than when they flat out say that something is impossible.

For thousands (and thousands) of years virtually all of humanity (including the scientific) thought that man would never travel faster than a horse.

Who knows?

And will the God Detector come with it's own batteries?
 

Lebkuecher

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With over 200 religions and several Gods currently being worshipped on the planet, I always thought it would be neat to start thread here to see how many religions are being represented on the CPF. It might be a subject that could stir things up so it might not be a good idea. Everyone tends to believe that his or her God is the only one so it could get nasty. Let's be respectful and tread lightly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

PhotonWrangler

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[ QUOTE ]
Lebkuecher said:
With over 200 religions and several Gods currently being worshipped on the planet, I always thought it would be neat to start thread here to see how many religions are being represented on the CPF. It might be a subject that could stir things up so it might not be a good idea. Everyone tends to believe that his or her God is the only one so it could get nasty. Let's be respectful and tread lightly. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said. This isn't about "my god can beat up your god."
Everyone has a right to their own personal belief without being trampled on by others.
 

PhotonWrangler

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[ QUOTE ]
tygger said:
Guess they'd have to develp a Satan-Detector. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/evilgrin07.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha! Yeah, we could calibrate that one using some lawyers. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif
 

Muppet

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We Place no Reliance
In Virgin or Pigeon,
Our Method is Science
Our Aim is Religion.

Don't see any reason that the faculty of reason shouldn't carry us as far as it can. There are a lot of traditions (Buddhist, Hindu, Stoic?) which insist on using reason to it's limit.

But not further.
 

nisshin

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Science is the tool we use to probe and understand the time-space continuum necessary for our existence. The question is what lies beyond/outside our time-space boundary.

Someone once proposed a world of existing on a two-dimensional sphere. All beings were two-dimensional; they lacked a conception of up or down. They would be forever trapped on their sphere-surface. Three-dimensional beings like us could observe the 2D world but not the reverse. We might intrude upon their world, say by sticking an arm through the surface. The arm would look like some being suddenly appearing out of nowhere to the 2D creatures.

One might argue a similar analogy for Jesus, that He is a three-dimensional manifestation of a multidimensional God.
 

StuU

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I think that the current issue for religion, speaking for myself, is that it is an emotional, primal force that can be employed for good ends....but is often used for evil ends. It seems that every politician in the US today refers to the "almighty" to justify whatever political goal that they, or their supporters, are interested in.

For instance, there are two ways to approach the Christian religion:

1. Jesus might be viewed as a deeply wise person who brought a superior system of ethics and morality to the world. He might be a person worth emulating today. His wisdom could be very applicable to present day human dilemmas. A positive force. The New Testament supports this outlook in many ways.....Jesus as a very human prophet who prized tolerance and stood courageously against a rigid religious and social order. This Jesus would not oppose the findings of modern science or view such as a threat.

2. A second viewpoint is a more of a fundamentalist outlook which seeks to bind all human progress to writings & customs which originated in a narrow, superstitious and prescientific culture. For instance, the fundamentalist rejection of the mountain of evidence for human evolution because it doesn't comply with ancient scriptures. Or the way women are viewed by many conservative religions as second-rate citizens based on the rationale that Jesus had no women disciples. The fundamentalist outlook focuses less on the wisdom and tolerance of Jesus & the New Testament and more on the vengeful, eye-for-an-eye attitudes of the Old Testament....a course that will result in a darker and poorer world.

My own viewpoint, as a former geologist, is that we need to be evaluate carefully the religious claims of gods, goddesses, angels, demons, fiery hells, heavenly paradises, the holding of exclusive truth in one's own religious sect, and the rest. These claims should be challenged in the same way that scientific claims are challenged....but never are in most religious environments. Only by availing ourselves of science and it's insights into the nature of ourselves and our world will we be able to tackle the age-old human problems and build a better world.

We live in the age of the Hubble Telescope, supercomputers, and the Human Genome Project. In other words, a rational and scientific age. It's an exciting, fascinating, and often scary time to be alive but we are learning more about ourselves and our world than ever before. This is not the time reject these new understandings and retreat into the dark ages.

StuU

------------------------

Ubi dubium ibi libertas:

"Where there is doubt, there is freedom"

-Latin proverb
 

Rothrandir

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stu, there is a third option...

3. jesus was, and is, the son of god, and came to earth do die on the cross and be resurrected for everyones sins. he wasn't a "prophet", he was the son of god.

and there is no "mountain of evidence" to support evolution /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

there might be evidence that seems to suggest evolution, and there is evidence that seems to suggest god.

can you scientifically prove that anything in the bible is wrong? there are a lot of things covered in the bible, and while there may be theories against them, there is no proof to suggest that anything being incorrect.

the bible is more than just what you may think, it also holds much information about many different subjects, and has been referred to as an investigative tool for scientists who seek to learn something about a new discovery.

the fact remains, that while you might believe in evolution, due to lack of evidence for creation, there is absolutely no "proof" to suggest evolution. in fact believe that there is more evidence to suggest otherwise!

i've never understood the big deal, why people seperate science and religion? why can't one be used to bring greater light to the other? scientists have been using the bible as a resource for a long time, and through science, we can discover more of gods world around us.

to state that "science" is anti-god is just plain ridiculous. i think they can (and do) go together quite nicely.
 

Bravo25

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A group of scientist at a meeting one afternoon, decided that with all the advancements in DNA research, and cloning, that God was not really needed any longer. They figured someone should tell God. One of them was appointed, and the next afternoon the scientist was walking on the beach with God. He said "God with all of our technical advances, DNA reasearch, and the progress in cloning we have come to decide that there really isn't a need for you any longer". God then spoke saying "Well that is fair enough, but in the interest of fair play lets have a competition, before you make your final decision". The scientist agreed, and God said "lets make a man". To which the scientist stopped , and thought aloud, "We have made all these advances, and we can now clone man, so ok, I'll give it a shot. It was at this time that God reached down, and picked up a handful of dirt. The scientist following Gods lead squatted down, and scooped up a handful himself. It was then that God spoke, saying to the scientist, "No, no. You go get your own dirt!"
 

Lebkuecher

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Thought this was interesting,

POPE JOHN PAUL II EMBRACES EVOLUTION
Pope John Paul II shocks the Christian world by announcing that "Evolution is Compatible with Christian faith"!! How could this Pope so strongly and directly contradict the Biblical teaching and the Traditions of the Fathers? Is Pope John Paul II a Holy Traditional Pope or is he the Unholy Anti-Pope? See how this pronouncement greatly advances the cause, and the timetable, of the coming New World Order Religion. Must reading for Roman Catholic faithful!!

Read more here
 

Rothrandir

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yikes, that's an extremely long artical, which i have no time to read right now...

i would think that this article is referring to something other than what is commonly thought of when one considers evolution.

the bible gives no leanway about who or how man was created. god created man from the dirt of the earth, and the breath of life. for the pope to suggest anything otherwise is ridiculous, and should merit prompt and immediate removal from office. (not sure how that whole pope thing works anyway...)

i'm a protestant, not catholic, so i don't know much about the catholic church or how it works...
 

JerryM

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Rothrandir,

AMEN.
If Jesus was only a good man who set an example to be followed, but was not the true Son of God, and divine, then Christianity is false, and we are still in our sins and without hope.

But because He was the Son and divine, we can have eternal life through saving faith in Him and Him alone. He ever liveth to make intercession for us, and His blood cleanses us from our sins for all who come to Him in faith.

Jerry
 

Kiessling

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Hm ... so you believe and then will be relieved of all your sins?
Nice concept.

Religion / God is invented by man. It is a concept. The purpose is simple and a dual one:

1. it will ease your pain and fear of life and death. it will give you a dream, a goal, and thus will make you a happier person.

2. it will make you controllable. it is an instrument to control and manipulate you, and this is good, as it keeps the beast inside men at bay.

In the end, a religious person embraces a moral / ethical code that is pre-formatted and has answers to every important question in human life. there is no need to think on your own about those terrifying questions, no moral dilemma, no existential fear. you can even get rid of your past sins! think of that ...

Religion ... the main instrument of the ages to achieve a stable united society.

Science ... science is used to gather information and to be able to understand things. I never could understand why something should be attributed to god just because we cannot explain it (yet).

I envy those who can still believe, for they walk the earth as happy albeit blind people. Once your eyes are open, you can never go back and life seems to crush you.

Sorry if my views are offending.

bernhard
 
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