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Thread: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

  1. #1

    Default 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Hi

    This is my first post in here, although ive been reading a couple of reviews now and then.

    Im on the market for a new headlamp used for night running on road and easy trails, and can't really decide. I hope you'd be able to point me in the right direction.

    Im looking for a sub 170g headlamp that is able to give a nice bright light around 500 lumens for around 3, maybe 4 hours in cold weather. The more the better. I need it to be waterproof and perhaps also decently impact resistant. I see it as a plus if the battery is a standard replaceable chargeable battery, e.g. a 18650 battery cell. Id rather not pay more than around 140 euros total.

    Ive considered the following lights:
    1) Lumonite Compass R
    2) Skilhunt h40 natural white rc
    3) Armytek Wizard Pro V3 XHP50 warm white
    4) Zebralight h600Fc xhp50.2
    5) Silva Cross Trail 5x

    The last option is normally too expensive but is at a large discount at a local runners shop, for around 80 euros. According to the specs (500 lumen for 2 to 4 hours depending on temperature) it seems to meet all my criteria, but i cant find any decent reviews on it.

    I now have a Silva Explore 3x, which is fine on easy roads and for short runs, but id wish it was brighter and lasted longer.

    Hope you could help me out

    Cheers

  2. #2
    Flashaholic* maukka's Avatar
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    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Just as a sanity check, no current flashlight using an 18650 will do 500 lumens for 4 hours. That would be 2000 lumen*hours and at an excellent 140 lumens per watt would need a battery with a capacity of 14.3 watthours. No such 18650 exists at the moment. Cold weather makes this task even more difficult.

    You can forget the Silva Cross Trail 5x straight away since it uses a "Rechargeable 1.2Ah battery pack in a multi-attachment case" so it will cover only about an hour at best. The other four will come close though. The Lumonite Compass R is manufactured by Olight and their H2R is able to do regulated 600 lumens for 2.5 hours. I suspect the Lumonite is similar. Armytek and Skilhunt will be about the same too.


  3. #3
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    Default 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Is a separate battery pack ok? I trail run with a Nitecore HC70 and have had it for years. It will output 550 lumens for 4 hours on high. In the woods I like either a small rechargeable light or the HC70 for the lack of bounce while running.
    You have to decide what your priorities are and have the courage--pleasantly, smilingly, non-apologetically--to say no to other things. And the way to do that is by having a bigger yes burning inside. The enemy of the best is often the good.

  4. #4

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Quote Originally Posted by maukka View Post
    Just as a sanity check, no current flashlight using an 18650 will do 500 lumens for 4 hours. That would be 2000 lumen*hours and at an excellent 140 lumens per watt would need a battery with a capacity of 14.3 watthours. No such 18650 exists at the moment. Cold weather makes this task even more difficult.

    You can forget the Silva Cross Trail 5x straight away since it uses a "Rechargeable 1.2Ah battery pack in a multi-attachment case" so it will cover only about an hour at best. The other four will come close though. The Lumonite Compass R is manufactured by Olight and their H2R is able to do regulated 600 lumens for 2.5 hours. I suspect the Lumonite is similar. Armytek and Skilhunt will be about the same too.


    Thanks for the quick and very informative response.

    Lumonite state these performance figures:

    Performance (ANSI/FL1)
    Max: 1200 lm / 1 h 40 min / 115 m
    High: 630 lm / 3 h 40 min / 80 m
    Med: 240 lm / 8 h 40 min / 65 m
    Low: 80 lm / 40 h / 28 m
    Moon: 5 lm / 600 h / -

    630lm for 3,66h should not be possible either, since it equates to 16,47wh at an efficiency of 140lumen/watt?

  5. #5

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Quote Originally Posted by maukka View Post
    Just as a sanity check, no current flashlight using an 18650 will do 500 lumens for 4 hours. That would be 2000 lumen*hours and at an excellent 140 lumens per watt would need a battery with a capacity of 14.3 watthours. No such 18650 exists at the moment. Cold weather makes this task even more difficult.
    Im happy i chose to write in this forum. That sanity check makes perfectly sense! I should have thought of calculating watthours myself.

    1) the Lumonite Compass R claims 630 lumens for 3 hours and 40 minutes which makes 2305.8 lumen hours. That would be impossible too, unless the efficiency is 178lumens/watt - is that even possible?

    Whats the most efficient led?

    Best regards

    Ms86

  6. #6

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Quote Originally Posted by spinkid View Post
    Is a separate battery pack ok? I trail run with a Nitecore HC70 and have had it for years. It will output 550 lumens for 4 hours on high. In the woods I like either a small rechargeable light or the HC70 for the lack of bounce while running.
    I would really want to avoid bounce. 500 Lumens for 2,5 to 3 hours would probably suffice. And then i could carry another battery if needed.

  7. #7

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    The Olight Perun is specified to do 500 lumens for 4 hrs. Olight usually list the step downs but didn't specify step down for this mode. Olights are usually very accurate and conservative in their lumen ratings compared to other brands. The specs of the Perun seems like they upgraded the efficiency from the H2R. However, the CW tint on the Perun does not look good to me at least. The Armytek Wizard WW Pro is 4000K 80CRI and looks excellent. The Zebralight H600FC MK4 is 4000K 90CRI and also looks good but the tint is not as nice as the Wizard IMO. The H600FC is probably the smallest headlamp out there and should be most comfortable for running.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    I am curious as to your specification of 500 lumens. I used to ride my mountain bike on technical trails at about 200 lumens many years ago (Max output). My newer light will put out a maximum of 2800 lumens...and I find that 400 Lumens is often adequate at mountain biking speeds. It is rare that I use more than 650 lumens. How did you arrive at your 500 Lumen specification?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    A couple of the OPs posts were caught in the Moderation queue but have been approved now for response.

  10. #10

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Quote Originally Posted by TallSteve View Post
    I am curious as to your specification of 500 lumens. I used to ride my mountain bike on technical trails at about 200 lumens many years ago (Max output). My newer light will put out a maximum of 2800 lumens...and I find that 400 Lumens is often adequate at mountain biking speeds. It is rare that I use more than 650 lumens. How did you arrive at your 500 Lumen specification?
    I arrived at this number because my current light has got 300 lumens for 2h and i feel that i need something a good step brighter and for longer time. My current runs low after around 35 minutes (although i don't knows how low but I'm getting red indicator) I'm beginning to suspect that the 300 lumen is quite an exxageration however. I actually don't like running at night, but it's necessary since i got two toddlers (and since I'm from Scandinavia where it gets very dark quite early) At least, i want a nice bright, comfortable, not wobbly, sturdy, weather proof, headlamp with interchangeable battery that lasts 2,5 hours without issues on one battery. I dont need blazingly bright 2000+ lumen turbo modes. I need a light that can give good floody illumination without hotspots at around 450-550 lumens for 3 hours, and perhaps a step at 200-300 that can last for 6 hours.I cant quite follow why there isn"t a step between H2Rs level 2 and 3.. (2,5h@600lumen and 10h@150lumen). In my opinion an intermediary step would be a nice compromise between brigthness and running time The compass R seems to have better steps:High: 630 lm / 3 h 40 min / 80 mMed: 240 lm / 8 h 40 min / 65 m
    Last edited by ms86; 02-21-2020 at 01:12 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    There's no way the Lumonite Compass R can do 630 lumens for 3hr 40m. The problem with these specs is that they dont tell you when and how much the light steps down. By half hour, it could be making 250 lumens instead of maintaining 630 lumens. Only Olight and Fenix are homest and transparent about step downs. Also who knows if Lumonite's lumen ratings are not inflated. Non inflated lumens are extremely hard to come by.

    Btw this Compass R looks like a clone of the Armytek Wizard.

  12. #12

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    What about Lucifer?

    https://luciferlights.net/led-headla...lamp-lucifer-S

    750 lm max, 170 grams, 112 euros

    I think you can talk to them and order for him a battery compartment for 2 * 18650 or 4 * 18650, which can be put in the chest pocket and wired connect.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    This thread is very interesting as my wife and I are trying to fine tune some headlamp and flashlight purchases for hiking and activities at night. Thank you to everyone who is participating.

    I am not a runner. I do spend time at night hiking and biking. And we frequently encounter runners at night. Using our lights with outputs ranging from 8 lumens to well in excess of 650, I offer the following for your consideration. We frequently use 210 to 650 lumens while riding our mountain bikes on a variety of trail surfaces at speeds up to about 15 MPH. While hiking, my wife who has better eyesight than I do, frequently uses a range of about 8 to 130 lumens. I frequently use 30 to perhaps 200 lumens. If we are on a rough trail that is poorly marked, we may use up to 400 or so lumens in bursts to find the route or markers.

    My observation of runners on these paths is that they are rarely using more than a rough approximation of 200 lumens. It seems that many are probably using closer to 100 lumens.

    I believe that with a beam that is well suited for running you might find that you don't need or even want as much light as you have specified.

    As another poster pointed out, runtimes are very misleading. Using the ANSI Spec commonly used, runtimes are calculated from the light output at 30 seconds after being turned on down to 10 percent of that output value. Depending upon battery chemistry and how the light is regulated, a light with a 6 hour "runtime" could be very disappointing at say 3 hours. We have a headlamp that is commonly sold at outdoor recreation stores that boasts a very long runtime at a medium setting of about 100 lumens. I was not able to recreate those runtimes using any battery chemistry. And the kicker is that few of the 'reviewers' mentioned the inaccurate runtimes listed for the light.

    I offer the above as it may increase the number of lights to consider for your needs. I look forward to seeing what others recommend and what you think of the light you ultimately choose.

  14. #14

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Quote Originally Posted by TallSteve View Post
    This thread is very interesting as my wife and I are trying to fine tune some headlamp and flashlight purchases for hiking and activities at night. Thank you to everyone who is participating.

    I am not a runner. I do spend time at night hiking and biking. And we frequently encounter runners at night. Using our lights with outputs ranging from 8 lumens to well in excess of 650, I offer the following for your consideration. We frequently use 210 to 650 lumens while riding our mountain bikes on a variety of trail surfaces at speeds up to about 15 MPH. While hiking, my wife who has better eyesight than I do, frequently uses a range of about 8 to 130 lumens. I frequently use 30 to perhaps 200 lumens. If we are on a rough trail that is poorly marked, we may use up to 400 or so lumens in bursts to find the route or markers.

    My observation of runners on these paths is that they are rarely using more than a rough approximation of 200 lumens. It seems that many are probably using closer to 100 lumens.

    I believe that with a beam that is well suited for running you might find that you don't need or even want as much light as you have specified.

    As another poster pointed out, runtimes are very misleading. Using the ANSI Spec commonly used, runtimes are calculated from the light output at 30 seconds after being turned on down to 10 percent of that output value. Depending upon battery chemistry and how the light is regulated, a light with a 6 hour "runtime" could be very disappointing at say 3 hours. We have a headlamp that is commonly sold at outdoor recreation stores that boasts a very long runtime at a medium setting of about 100 lumens. I was not able to recreate those runtimes using any battery chemistry. And the kicker is that few of the 'reviewers' mentioned the inaccurate runtimes listed for the light.

    I offer the above as it may increase the number of lights to consider for your needs. I look forward to seeing what others recommend and what you think of the light you ultimately choose.
    Well now there's more to consider

    You're probably right that i dont need true 500 lumen for 4 hours. I do however want the oppertunity to get around twice the brightness that im currently running with.
    Silva claims that my current headlamp delivers 350 lumen for 2 hours (which it clearly cant with a 700mah battery). I not know how bright it actually is though. I have to point it down a few meters in front of me to be able to see roots when running in dark woods, and then the beam is maybe only 1-1.5 meters wide.


    What i am at the moment leaning towards is going after a headlamp with a 18650 non-proprietary battery (to be able to exchange once worn down, and to have replacements ready). Or at least with an affordable replacement. I'm also leaning towards the high-cri high efficiency emitters, i.e. xhp50, xhp50.2, xhp70, xhp70.2. Wspecially the last mentioned has an efficiency of up to 190lumens/watt, which is why such headlamps ought to have the most lumenhours. I dont mind that the tint might be a bit yellowish or rosy or whatever...

    So im looking at AceBeam H30, AceBeam H15, Olight H2R, Fenix HM61R.

    Would 200g on your forehead bounce? Has a anyone any experience with running with the AceBeam H30?

  15. #15

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Quote Originally Posted by TallSteve View Post
    As another poster pointed out, runtimes are very misleading. Using the ANSI Spec commonly used, runtimes are calculated from the light output at 30 seconds after being turned on down to 10 percent of that output value. Depending upon battery chemistry and how the light is regulated, a light with a 6 hour "runtime" could be very disappointing at say 3 hours. We have a headlamp that is commonly sold at outdoor recreation stores that boasts a very long runtime at a medium setting of about 100 lumens. I was not able to recreate those runtimes using any battery chemistry. And the kicker is that few of the 'reviewers' mentioned the inaccurate runtimes listed for the light

    that's why I suggested lucifer, they consider the operating time to 70% of the maximum, i.e. after the indicated time, the light from 750 drops to 525. With a large battery, the necessary brightness will be obtained, necessary time

    as for the number of lumens, it depends on the lighting, if you run along an unlit road that runs along the illuminated freeway and is below it on ground level, then 500 will be good, because eyes will not be adapted to darkness due to headlights and track lighting

    Quote Originally Posted by ms86 View Post
    What i am at the moment leaning towards is going after a headlamp with a 18650 non-proprietary battery (to be able to exchange once worn down, and to have replacements ready). Or at least with an affordable replacement. I'm also leaning towards the high-cri high efficiency emitters, i.e. xhp50, xhp50.2, xhp70, xhp70.2. Wspecially the last mentioned has an efficiency of up to 190lumens/watt, which is why such headlamps ought to have the most lumenhours. I dont mind that the tint might be a bit yellowish or rosy or whatever...


    The most effective is a pure blue LED, no loss to get any imperfect shades. At the same time, there is a good enough contrast so as not to fall into a hole or stumble on the roots of trees. Only 1 minus - from a habit, you may begin to feel dizzy or tired eyes. Ok this is a joke
    Last edited by desert.snake; 02-22-2020 at 05:09 AM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    We have a Fenix HM50R that has become our favorite small headlamp. Great beam qualities, great output. Based upon our love of this light, we are also thinking about something like the HM61R, or HL55. We have bought a bunch of lights and batteries the past month or so. I will need to hold off for a bit before buying more. Really looking forward to your review on the light you choose.

    The Lucifer light does look Good. And I do like Czech products. We enjoyed visiting Czech a few years ago, and really enjoyed the experience. Thanks to the poster who brought that to my attention.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Personally, I like the Zebralight H600Fc I recently bought. It comes pretty close to your requirements. High CRI, 4000K output, so very good for seeing in the woods or on trails. You get close to 3 hours of runtime at 560 lumens, using a 3500mAh 18650 cell. Though, I find that the 300 lumen output is plenty bright enough, and that gives you about 5.5 hours (fully regulated, so the output doesn't drop as the battery depletes). Max output is 1560 lumens, though that will drop down quickly due to heat, and won't give much runtime obviously. Still, it's good for a couple of minutes of a wall of light when you need it.

    Weight is about 85g, including battery. So, it's pretty small and light. With the headband that includes an optional top strap, it doesn't move around much at all. It would probably bounce too much if you took off the top strap. Okay for walking, but you need the top strap for running. I find it comfortable. I use it mostly for walking.

    IMO, your weight requirement of 170g is way too much. That will not be comfortable for a 4 hour run.

  18. #18

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Yeah, im kinda confused what i'm going to chose.

    I like the small formfactor of the Skilhunt H04 RC and the Fenix HM61R.

    I really like the output spacing of the skilhunt: 3.5h@490lumen, 365lumen@5h, 160lumen@11h. That seems perfect for me!
    They use an XM-L2 U4 led that delivers up to 170 lumen/watt. The light has IPX8 rating and impact resistance up to 1m. It is also quite cheap, at 53 euro for the light incl battery. Problem is that it would cost me around 30 euro to import to denmark (due to VAT and some other fee), which is a rediculously large amount especially considering the price of the actual headlamp.

    The Fenix HM61R's output levels are not as good as the skilhunt, but fairly decent at 400lumen and 150lumen, has better impact resistance (2m), and costs a bit more than the skilhunt (89 euro incl shipment). It uses a luminus sst40 led.

    I can get the olight h2r for 98euro. As mentioned earlier i think the spacing is too large between the high and med setting. I would have preferred an intermediary setting around 300lumen. It has a good led though.. xhp50.

    Tough choise.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    The H2r is excellent, especially the NW xhp50(around 4000k to my eyes). The jump from medium to high is not huge to the eyes. Donít forget it takes roughly 4x the lumens to look twice as bright. The steps from L M H are decent and balanced. Awesome lamp! Skilhunt are ok (have 2 as well as 2 H2r). But the drivers are not the best and with Olight you get 5yr warranty . I would go olight. Canít comment on fenix but no doubt it will be decent if can cope with CW. Zebra are nice but prefer the H2r beam/tint/temp and UI. Itís so easy to operate on the head, also to remove/fit on the fly with minimal inconvenience (read best head band to).

  20. #20
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    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Quote Originally Posted by desert.snake View Post
    What about Lucifer?

    https://luciferlights.net/led-headla...lamp-lucifer-S

    750 lm max, 170 grams, 112 euros

    I think you can talk to them and order for him a battery compartment for 2 * 18650 or 4 * 18650, which can be put in the chest pocket and wired connect.

    I'm very impressed by the look of the Lucifer. Everything made in house and the constant regulation. I'd certainly give this a try if I were looking for a headlight.
    Good spot DS.
    P
    "O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!" He chortled in his joy.

  21. #21

    Default Re: 500 lumens for 4 hours?

    Hi

    I found a good discount on the h03 rc from skilhunt. 35 euros! Thats less than half the price of the h2r. Im currently awaiting arrival of the shipment

    I bought it with two Keeppower 3500mah 10A protected cells.

    Cheers

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