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Sold/Expired Ultra High Power Near InfraRed Flashlight

670nM

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Mar 22, 2004
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Hello...I know I'm a newbie to the candlepower forums, just hear me out. I was looking into getting some professional NearIR type flashlights. Check out this link for the one already on the market. http://sbir.gsfc.nasa.gov/SBIR/successes/ss/8-066text.html
alright...I emailed the guy and he said it was 499 plus 15 bucks S&H. Way too expensive! I still have a need for one for my joints/muscles/feet. How easy would it be to build an equivalant device? What about making one that is more powerful? They pretty much have the monopoly on the nearIR market and it makes me mad cuz I know they must be jacking the price up like crazy. I looked into getting LEDs and found a bunch of 660nM leds with a large 670nM spillover (about 60% power @ 670). Problem was they are measured in lumens so compairing 660's to 670's is pretty much impossible. I was thinking that using several cheap 660nM lights could create a very powerful 670nM bandwidth for a lot cheaper. I really don't care if I have a bunch of 660nM light in there as long as I get a good 670nM for cheap. One consideration would be heat buildup...since infrared is heat. Any thoughts? Thanks!
 

Frangible

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That looks like mid IR-- it's transferring heat. Near IR behaves more like ordinary light. Mid IR is "thermal". You'd need a *LOT* of near IR LEDs to produce any appreciable heat.

Could just buy a cheapo heat lamp too.
 

PhotonWrangler

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UH-oh, I think I hear my BS detector going off... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

To quote from their website -

"The WARP 10 produces more than 80 times more photon energy than a 250W heat lamp"

Uh, a heat lamp is optimized to put out far-IR heat, not visible "photonic energy" which seems to be happening in the photo of this unit. The device in the photo is glowing red, which suggests that these are visible red LEDs. ALL of the digital pictures I've seen of IR LEDs in operation have looked bluish to the camera, far from the red glow that's depicted here.

On the other hand, if you blow 500 bucks on one of these units, you might very well wind up feeling a burst of heat, but probably not from the lamp.
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 

PhotonWrangler

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[ QUOTE ]
Frangible said:
Could just buy a cheapo heat lamp too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've used a cheapo heat lamp bulb many times with great success. Some things are better accomplished with conventional tungsten as the radiant emitter...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

670nM

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Mar 22, 2004
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As far as it being mid-IR...it may have "some" mid-IR spillover, but the peak of the wavelenghth is supposed to be at 670nm. a lot of old laser pointers were peaked at 670nm and were perfectly visible. And as far as the heatlamp thing...they are probably talking about the output power @ 670nm. I don't want heat otherwise I'd just sit near a fire. These guys may be full of it, but I know the 670nM medical studies are not. Here's some media-dumbed down articles. http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/975450257.html
http://www.newscientist.com/hottopics/tech/article.jsp?id=99992525&sub=Medical
http://www.anodynetherapy.com/News/diabetics_heal_faster_with_light.htm
search for near-infrared on google...you'll get a lot of legit info as well as a lot of scam artists taking advantage of the information. I think producing a powerful 670nM (darkest visible red before IR) would be great anyways because I can use it as a great camping light and not lose my night vision.
 

LightScene

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It seems logical that a heat lamp might produce enough energy at 670nM to be effective in healing. But it would be helpful to filter out the heat.

Maybe it's possible to get a 670nM glass or plastic filter to use with a heat lamp.

Edit: Searching for "670nm filter" on google produces many hits. Here's a promising example:
Thorlabs 670nM filter
 

Hemingray

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I've experimented with an array of 660 nM red and 880 nM IR LEDs, just to see if this would actually work. THis was about 3 years ago, I had a serious knee injury, and wanted to see if there really was anything to this. It had some mild effect, but nothing spectacular. Yes, it would generate some radiated warmth, and perhaps increased blood circulation to the area, but just simple massaging and rubbing on some liniment did a lot more. I tried mixes of LEDs, 9 red, 27 IR, then 18 of each, lastly 27 red and 9 IR. Never seemed to make too much difference. THis was mounted on one of the 36 LED "IR Illuminator" boards from BG Micro or www.dalewheat.com
which has 4 series strings of 9 LEDs each. There is also a 72 LED 12X array PCB available, as well. With a mix of red and IR LEDs this will run nicely on 12 VDC, either a pack of AAs or a wall wart.

An interesting experiment, and about $475 cheaper than the "WARP 10" gadget.

/ed B in NH
 

PhotonWrangler

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[ QUOTE ]
LightScene said:
It seems logical that a heat lamp might produce enough energy at 670nM to be effective in healing. But it would be helpful to filter out the heat.

Maybe it's possible to get a 670nM glass or plastic filter to use with a heat lamp.


[/ QUOTE ]

Some of the regular incandescent heat lamps have an integral reddish-orange filter; I'm guessing that this is probably near the 670nm area. Would this have any benefit over a regular (clear) heat lamp, in terms of maybe filtering out undesired wavelengths?

On the other hand, any filtered incandescent lamp is going to produce more heat at it's surface than an unfiltered one... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
 

LightScene

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I noticed the same thing about the dark red filters on some heat lamps. I think they are meant to cheaply filter out evrything but the heat, i.e. they filter out the spurious light. It does look like they would let the 670nM pass through.

If we could find a dealer who carries the Epitex LEDs, that would solve the problem. Along with the Dalewheat.com link that Hemingray supplied, it would be easy to put together an array of LEDs.

I did a little research yesterday and found a company that makes a laser based 670nM healing device. It looked like they were somehow able to dispurse the laser beam over a wide area. I think they used 10 minute treatments every 2 weeks. They were able to heal, in 13 weeks, wounds that had persisted for years.
 

670nM

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Yeah, I think those filters would actualy keep the lower wavelengths from passing though...which would probably end up traping in the heat that the IR wavelengths produce. I saw the epitex led as well when searching for one earlier. I wonder if that could be mounted into a flashlight casing for portability and so I could use it as a camping light that preserves my night vision. I found TWO suitable led 670nM illuminators on epitex.
http://www.epitex.com/Catalog_PDF/06%20Custom%20designed/065%20Ultra%20high%20power%20illuminator/065-0143%20%20%20L670-66-60.PDF
One was a bare LED--nothing super special--good though...the other was a 4watt illuminator...man, that thing sucks power! The thing is already in an array configuration and is ready to rock...the good thing is that it already has 60 diodes in it. I'm sure this thing can be made into a flashlight that cooks! (Well hopefully it doesn't "cook")...you know what I mean:). I just emailed epitex about this...I'll see how much they cost as soon as I get their reply...anyone know if they would sell individual pieces or are they more of a bulk seller.
 

LightScene

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We might be able to put together a group order for the Epitex modules. If we have time to inform non-flashaholic friends of the benefits, we can probably find some more buyers.

Earlier today I tried putting my hand under a heat lamp, and it was too hot to be useful. Some of the heat would have to be filtered out.
 

LightScene

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How important is it that the wavelength be 670nM?
There must be a similar influence at nearby wavelengths. The red Luxeon emits at 625nM. That wavelength may not penetrate as deeply as 670nM, but it might still activate the mitochondria.

Since I have a red luxeon flashlight, I plan to give it a try.

Cheap red laser pointers emit at 670nM. They should be quite effective for smaller wounds. I'm thinking of buying a 5mW pointer.
 

Turd_Ferguson

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Jan 15, 2004
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Here's another caca device. Looks like a new fad to me to extract money from your wallet. The infomercial for this cracks me up. You won't beleive this but it actually heats your muscles to improve circulation. Imagine that! It's like Bengay only instead of rubbing it on, you have to sit and hold the light on you for a while. This one's only $200. Hoo hoo!

www.lightforcetherapy.com /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif
 

670nM

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Yeah...I think it is the same thing that happened to the electric stim therapy...It actually works, but then you get a bunch of people making cheap devices that couldn't possibly work. I've seen the units that they use in rehabilitation and you can't make them cheap. If I remember right the guy said the organization spend a good 10K on it. For NIR therapy, I don't think normal red light would work (just my intuition--otherwise there would be a lot more red lights for sale to put around the house). I don't think a low powered 670nM light would have much chance of working either. I would speculate that there is a threshold level that you have to reach in order to have any effect. And from what I know, I think you'd really have to overwhelm the site with a flood of 670nM light to get any effect. Near-Infrared has been used in rehabilitation for years now, only the ones you get at GNC and the ones you find in the actually rehabilitation clinics are vastly different. BTW, epitex hasn't gotten back to me yet. I'll let you know if they do.
 

LightScene

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Do you think there is anything magical about 670nM light? Don't you think that nearby wavelengths will work? I feel quite confident that a red Luxeon which peaks at 625nM will have an effect. It's hard to test my theory, but that's my feeling after having tried it.

Also, what do you think about the efficacy of 670nM laser light? The beam can be diffused by using tape or plastic. But I think it will be effective without diffusion.

Although these simple home-made tools won't be as efficacious as clinical tools, they will probably still be useful, especially for surface level wounds, skin disorders, lesions in the mouth, etc. The light doesn't have to penetrate very far in these situations.
 

670nM

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http://www.equiworld.net/uk/horsecare/alternativetherapies/lighttherapy/

This is a comprehensive article geared towards horses. I guess I was stuck on the 670nM wavelength because that's what the original products I saw were peaked at. However, from everything I read, I don't think anything below 660nM will have an effect. I also have read in a couple of places (Including the link I attached) that laser light is not the best way to approach light therapy. I think we'd be better off going further in the infrared region. I'd be happy with a good 660nm or above light.
 

LightScene

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[ QUOTE ]
670nM said:
I also have read in a couple of places (Including the link I attached) that laser light is not the best way to approach light therapy.

[/ QUOTE ] One link you sited makes a very vague, un-scientific statement that laser light can more easily damage the cells. This kind of un-substantiated remark without supporting data is meaningless to me.
 

LightScene

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From the horsecare link above:

"Both visible red and infrared light have been shown to effect at least 24 different positive changes at a cellular level."

"lasers are important in that they are convenient sources of intense light at wavelengths that stimulate specific physiological functions"
 

670nM

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I know it is not the most scientific paper...it wasn't meant to be, but it did pull it's information from a lot of good refrences on the subject of IR and near-IR light (see the refrences at the bottom of the paper).
"Visible red light" is very misleading as near-IR is visible light is 400nM-700nM
--Light that has seen effects in most studies 660-900nM
--visible light that has effects 660nM-700nM There is some overlap...I think when they say visible red they are talking about this overlap.
--Basically what they are saying about lasers is that they are good for experimentation because you can isolate a specific wavelength and find the specific reaction at that wavelength.
--For a working device I don't care if I cover a wider range of the light spectrum...actually I'd prefer it because it would be able to penetrate to different depths and cover a broader range of potential reactions that occur at the different wavelengths. I talked to someone that could create a 6w flashlight @ 635, 660 or 680. From what I've been reading I think 680 would be the best choice.
 
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