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Thread: Coronavirus - II

  1. #931

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    A non-membership store certainly has the right to make demands on restrictions, like masks, on those entering their store. A membership store. like Costco, is in a different situation. Unless the contract between member and store addresses a particular deviation from certain normal behavior or dress, the customer's rights cannot arbitrarily be abridged.

    Call it playing the devil's advocate if you wish, but Costco could be in an unenviable situation from a customer willing to really push it.

    Of course, I don't think I've ever read the Costco membership agreement(s) in great detail.

  2. #932
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    Default Coronavirus - II

    Seems to me that they’re completely covered.
    “Membership is subject to any and all rules adopted by Costco including our privacy policies and practices, and they may be amended from time to time without notice.”

    “Costco reserves the right to refuse membership to any applicant and membership may be terminated at Costco's discretion and without cause.”
    Last edited by treek13; 05-27-2020 at 11:26 AM.

  3. #933
    Flashaholic* RedLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    It would seem to me that any business can set rules for those entering their establishment, on their property, to wear masks during an emergency. All businesses, with the exception of recreational endeavors, require shoes and shirts. I am not sure what rights these people think are being violated by being asked to do this under the circumstances?
    Last edited by RedLED; 05-27-2020 at 12:41 PM.
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  4. #934
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    My county has been doing blitz testing every weekend in the bigger cities. Last weekend they did one in my city. Here are the results:



    Doing pretty good here! Will be interesting to see what happens in a week or two after all of the traffic here over Memorial Day.

  5. #935

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by treek13 View Post
    Seems to me that they’re completely covered.
    “Membership is subject to any and all rules adopted by Costco including our privacy policies and practices, and they may be amended from time to time without notice.”

    “Costco reserves the right to refuse membership to any applicant and membership may be terminated at Costco's discretion and without cause.”

    Membership hasn't been discussed.

  6. #936
    *Flashaholic* StarHalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Let's go to the mall; the Ontario Mills mall is the largest shopping and outlet mall in the largest county of the United States. The single-floor, 1.4 million square foot complex is located in Ontario, California, and with 28 million annual visitors, is one of the top shopping and tourist destinations in Southern California.

    They reopened for business yesterday.

    Please stay to the right


    Lots of expanded seating space in the food court (because there are fewer seats)


    Welcome to Old Navy. Please wait.


    No coffee. No pizza.


    Roughly 30% of stores were open on today's trek

  7. #937

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    It may vary state to state how things are interparated as well. Most "contracts" for things like a membership have a right to change policies without notice, or with notice. But each state may have laws in place to protect consumers or perhaps more relaxed buyer beware type approach.
    Costco is a really big outfit so I'd be surprised if they were doing the mask thing without the legal ability to.

    A friend of mine plays futures in the stock market. One day he told me to buy coffee stock. I asked why. He said Costco is about to buy their coffee for the next 5 years so buy now before the price of coffee stock jumps. Being puzzled I asked why. He said they buy so much coffee, Pepsi, chips, paper towels etc that they often end up influencing the price throught the world of a particular item.
    He said one time Coca Cola wanted to raise the price they charged Costco more than Costco was willing to pay. The next day there was no Coca Cola in any Costco. Coca Cola stock plunged shortly after. Soon after that Coca Cola agreed to the adjustment Costco was ok with and that was that.

    A business that can affect the price of coffee across planet earth probably has the ability to make folks wear masks if it is mandated by Costco corparate.

    Funny how nobody has mentioned the CDC has back peddled on transmission through contact with surfaces and now says human to human is the only likely way it spreads. That's when everybody racheted up the asymptematic notion of transmission speak
    https://www.livescience.com/cdc-coro...es-update.html
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  8. #938

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by StarHalo View Post
    Let's go to the mall; the Ontario Mills mall is the largest shopping and outlet mall in the largest county of the United States.... Welcome to Old Navy. Please wait.
    People actually lining up to shop at Old Navy.... Now I've seen everything. Just curious, were most of the folks on the line wearing masks?
    "The World is insane. With tiny spots of sanity, here and there... Not the other way around!" - John Cleese.

  9. #939
    *Flashaholic* StarHalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    People actually lining up to shop at Old Navy....
    Most of the open stores had quotas/lines, the few that didn't had crowding.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monocrom View Post
    Now I've seen everything. Just curious, were most of the folks on the line wearing masks?
    Yeah, I'd say 95% of the people in the mall had masks.

  10. #940
    Flashaholic* RedLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Again, forget the legal nonsense, ANY business can require masks to be worn, Period. If a business asks people to wear one, and you Don't. want to, then go to another location. Businesses are private, therefore, they are allowed to set their own standards and can ask you to vacate their premises for anything they want.

    How many times have you seen the we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone signs posted in businesses?

    The membership is a binding contract that is signed by the member. At Costco, you must show your recipt upon exiting the store, at any other store or non-membership store, you do not have to show your receipt in order to leave. There is legal precedent on this.
    Last edited by RedLED; 05-27-2020 at 04:03 PM.
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  11. #941
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    RedLED is right...I worked part time at our local mega-mall in security for over 10 years and had to explain countless times that the Mall property was not “a public place” and was indeed a private property that has chosen to invite the public to enter it. This was usually in the course of “un-inviting” a guest who violated the properties established rules. I heard it a million times “this is a public place and I can (fill in the blank) if I want to!” Not even close.
    I only fear that if something happens to me, my wife will sell all my stuff for what I told her I paid for it.

  12. #942
    *Flashaholic* Poppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by SCEMan View Post
    100% mask wearers so far in my town on the eastern border of Los Angeles county. But I don't think this will last long with the reopening now underway.
    Yesterday was the first day I went shopping in about 10 days.
    Stop and Shop ( a large chain supermarket here in NJ) had a sign, you MUST wear a mask or no admittance. Shop Rite, had a similar sign, with additional note: T shirt pulled up over the nose is not sufficient.
    No guards at the door, but there was 100% compliance.

    Individual rolls of toilet paper, were available, with a ONE roll limit. It's hard to believe that they are still in such short supply.
    There were a few packages of 3-4 rolls of paper towels.
    In one store there were maybe 25-30, 1/2 gallons of Ajax Bleach.
    One store had a couple of small, cases of 16 oz bottles, of hand sanitizer. $16.00. I'm of the impression, because of the very Spartan labeling, that it was made by a converted brewery distillery.

    At Stop and shop there is a 5 package limit on meats, it doesn't matter if it is a 14 oz package of chicken nuggets, or a 10 pound ham.
    There was enough that I didn't feel guilty picking up 2 packages of skinless chicken breasts @ 4.5 pounds each, and 2 packages of 85% ground beef @ 3.5 pounds each.

    Frozen Pizza was back in supply, and as always, fresh fruits and vegetables were fully stocked.
    No problems with bread, milk, eggs, or dairy either.
    Last edited by Poppy; 05-29-2020 at 05:20 AM.
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  13. #943

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I just got back from shoping only like 3 other people in store i was in heaven. Till i walked home and had not enough room in back pack and it rained.
    LED's have gotten too bright in our stuff. Many nights I'm awakened by my modem lights blinking.had help with my sig thank you for your help.

  14. #944

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    It's an eery feeling seeing shelves empty in America in 2020. Kinda shows how much we take for granted.
    Honey, let's go see a movie this Friday……nope. Theatres closed
    Want tacos for dinner this week? No shells.
    What's say we go by the museum this weekend. Nope, closed.
    No baseball, no soccer, and lots of other stuff we just always figured we could go to at any old time.

    I had a discussion with one the kids yesterday about how a couple of centuries ago the red man on the east coast was wiped out nor by bullets but cholera and influenza brought here by the pale face who introduced them to "running face" for the first time. And now white, red, brown, yellow and black are all facing the same thing. He kept fluttering around from friend to friends house like it was no big thing so I felt the need to scold him. I also told him it aint a normal time he lives in right now so if he does not cease his social butterfly ways he would be required to wear a mask while in my home or not come in at all. I hope he got the point.

    Glad your store shelves are mostly full Poppy. But limit one roll of toilet paper? C'mon, that's kinda crazy huh? Hopefully most don't have to resort to buying one at a time right now.
    John 3:16

  15. #945

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Why is there no bean sprouts? I cant find them for months lachoy canned ones are good but there no where to be found
    LED's have gotten too bright in our stuff. Many nights I'm awakened by my modem lights blinking.had help with my sig thank you for your help.

  16. #946
    *Flashaholic* Poppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    It's an eery feeling seeing shelves empty in America in 2020.<SNIP>

    Glad your store shelves are mostly full Poppy. But limit one roll of toilet paper? C'mon, that's kinda crazy huh? Hopefully most don't have to resort to buying one at a time right now.
    Yes Mr Fixer,
    It is different.

    Crazy, yeah. I guess people are still hording TP.
    Is TP available in your part of the woods?

    Tissues are also in short supply, but at least available, if only in the small 60 count boxes.
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  17. #947
    *Flashaholic* Poppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by raggie33 View Post
    Why is there no bean sprouts? I cant find them for months lachoy canned ones are good but there no where to be found
    Why not try sprouting your own... much cheaper than canned, and fresher.
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  18. #948

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppy View Post
    Why not try sprouting your own... much cheaper than canned, and fresher.
    tryied mung sprouts at home but they was so thin
    LED's have gotten too bright in our stuff. Many nights I'm awakened by my modem lights blinking.had help with my sig thank you for your help.

  19. #949

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by Poppy View Post
    Yes Mr Fixer,
    It is different.

    Crazy, yeah. I guess people are still hording TP.
    Is TP available in your part of the woods?

    Tissues are also in short supply, but at least available, if only in the small 60 count boxes.
    We have TP and tissues everywhere here. The supply started coming back weeks ago they have so much that there is even office stores have stacks of them in the aisles. It may be that our central location and having I think 2 plants that make TP and tissues may help us a few tons. I just wish we had a TV manufacturing plant as the TP came back TV sets started vanishing before I got money coming back in to afford a new one.
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  20. #950
    *Flashaholic* Chauncey Gardiner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Below is a list of requirements from the Governor of Washing state.


    1. Prior to beginning operations as described in this document, all religious and faith-based organizations are required to develop for each location (indoor and outdoor if applicable) a comprehensive COVID-19 exposure control, mitigation and recovery plan. The plan must include policies regarding the following control measures: PPE utilization; on-location physical distancing; hygiene; sanitation; symptom monitoring; incident reporting; location disinfection
    procedures; COVID-19 safety training; exposure response procedures and a post-exposure incident project-wide recovery plan. A copy of the plan must be available at the location for inspection by state and local authorities, but state and local authorities are not required to preapprove the plan. Failure to meet planning requirements may result in sanctions, including the location being shut down.


    2. COVID-19 safety information and requirements, such as CDC, DOH, OSHA posters shall be visibly posted at each location (indoor and outdoor).


    3. Authorized access to the organization’s indoor location should primarily be through the front door. Other access points should be kept closed.


    4. All employees, members, and visitors in attendance shall wear face coverings before, during, and after the service (whether indoor or outdoor).


    5. There may be no direct physical contact between servers and members or visitors. Anything to be consumed may not be presented to the members or visitors in a communal container or plate.


    6. No choirs shall perform during the service. Singing is permitted, but individuals must not remove their face coverings to sing – it must stay on for the duration of the service.


    7. All services may provide access to restrooms, provided that access is controlled and limited to no more than 2 people at a time. Individuals waiting to use the restroom must maintain at least 6 feet of distance between each person.


    8. Soap and running water shall be abundantly provided at locations for frequent handwashing. Employees should be encouraged to leave their workstations to wash their hands regularly, and required to do so before and after going to the bathroom, before and after eating and after coughing, sneezing or blowing their nose. Alcohol-based hand sanitizers with greater than 60% ethanol or 70% isopropanol should also be provided and used, but are not a replacement for the water requirement.


    9. Disinfectants must be available to employees, members, and visitors throughout the location (indoor and outdoor) and ensure cleaning supplies are frequently replenished.


    10. Clean and disinfect high-touch surfaces after each use—including personal work stations, mirrors, chairs, headrests and armrests, doorknobs, handrails, restrooms and breakrooms—using soapy water, followed by the appropriate disinfectants. If these areas cannot be cleaned and disinfected frequently, the organization shall be shut down until such measures can be achieved and maintained.


    11. All organizations must adhere to physical distancing requirements and have six feet of space between workstations or have physical barriers between them.


    12. All organizations must adhere to physical distancing requirements and have six feet of space between the congregation’s seats, pews, and benches or have physical barriers between them. Members of the same household may be seated together as a single unit. This may require the organization to reconfigure the congregation’s seats, pews, and benches or have physical barriers between them. The organization must place markings on the floors and seats indicating a six feet radius to help guide members and visitors.


    13. Increase ventilation rates where feasible. Evaluate ventilation and utilize U.V. filters with a higher MERV rating.


    14. Ensure that tissues and trashcans are placed throughout the location (indoor and outdoor).


    15. Inform all employees, members, and guests that they must self-screen for signs and symptoms of COVID-19 before arriving at the location.
    • Request employees, members, and visitors to take their temperature before attending a service. Any individual with a temperature of 100.4°F will not be permitted to attend the service or attend work at the organization.
    • Any individual with a household member who has been diagnosed with COVID-19 or with symptoms of COVID-19 (including a fever above 100.4°F) may not attend the service or attend work at the organization.


    16. For in-home services, religious and faith-based organizations are permitted to convene up to 5individuals, excluding organization staff. These individuals do not need to be from the same household. However, individuals must wear face coverings when individuals from outside of the household participate.


    General questions about how to comply with the agreement practices can be submitted to the state’s Business Response Center at https://coronavirus.wa.gov/how-you-c...rker-inquiries All other violations related to Proclamation 20-25 can be submitted at https://bit.ly/covid-compliance.
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  21. #951
    *Flashaholic* Poppy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Wow! That looks like a... "You want to give us a hard time? Here it is, back at ya!"
    See if you can comply with all of this.
    My Grand Kids call me Poppy

  22. #952

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    To wade into the church or not church debate I will talk about what a local mayor said this morning. "In our city we have some churches with 5000 members. Most are in the vulnerable age range. To put 2500 potentially vulnerable folks in a space that holds 5000 is not a good idea right now".

    Hard to argue with a man who is correct. I'm for opening churches, provided they proceed with caution. My state is nearing phase 2, which I have no idea what that means. But some churches are holding services outside in phase 1. Folks not wanting to attend can catch the live stream or they can do like my grandma did whenever she got sick. She listened to the audio recording.

    Same city is closing some streets in order to set up dining areas with lots of distancing.
    John 3:16

  23. #953

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I thought things were supposed to be starting back up and returning slowly to normal, apparently not. I was teaching martial arts before the corona virus started. Due to this slow comeback, the owner decided to close the school permanently. He had gone three months with no rent money and now is only allowed to teach students one at a time. Can't pay the bills like that. I have 21 years experience in martial arts with no school to teach or train at, and am not currently legally allowed to teach more than one person at a time. Where do I sign up for suing the government for destroying my lifetime career?

    As far as church goes, my church decided to hold a single service this Sunday outside. No offering baskets passed around. No communion. And it's bring your own chair. Hard to abide by our atheist governor's wishes of limiting service to under 100 people or 1/4 building capacity. Hopefully, having the service outside will be good enough.

    Was at Circle K today and apparently, the county of San Diego has banned fountain drinks. Your mileage may vary on compliance. Found an ARCO that was still selling fountain drinks. Not going to say which one (I'd like to keep it that way).

    I don't have a lot of hope that things are going to return to normal do to my current circumstances, and I know I'm not alone in that regard. The way our government is allowing businesses to operate is bankrupting them in a way that they'll never return. You can't run a business at a reduced capacity for an extended period of time when all of your expenses stay the same or increase. That's a business model that only makes sense to an insane person or a politician (right now, arguably the same thing). Okay, rant over. I hope you guys are having a better day than I am.

  24. #954
    *Flashaholic* PhotonWrangler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Item #13 - What is a "UV filter?" There are UVC germicidal lamps that can be retrofitted to A/C systems but I haven't heard of a UV filter before. Enlighten us please.

  25. #955

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I thought a UV filters blocks UV like my sunglasses for example.

    HoF the governor of my state just declared a mask requirement in public businesses with no enforcement and no requirement to prove you cannot wear one. Basically most folks I know and hear on the radio were already wearing face covers when within a few feet of people. Most are saying if he had said to say, K Mart for example "you should strongly request masks in your business" most folks would gladly comply. For the sake of others if nothing else. But since he imposed a penalty of up to a year in jail a lot of people are saying awhellnaw bro. I dare you, I double dare you, I triple dare you to have locked up because when I get to court I will show the judge photos of his governerness glad handling people, shaking hands, touching strangers while posing for selfies without even one ready to deploy.

    I carry one around my neck ready to deploy and have for months. Just in case.

    Now regarding a karate school, when you guys can carry on and stay socially distanced then by all means, but when my boys took karate there were 10-12 kids who stood shoulder to shoulder and even boxed at the end of class. Perhaps you guys could devise a less likely to spread the virus way of conducting the classes (such as outdoors on the wet sand lol) share the idea with gym owners and others or share ideas then form a small group to send letters of requests for reconsideration to oh I dunno, your local mayor and see if that helps. Maybe temporary stalls between the kids for example and no full contact fighting for the time being. Focus strictly on the kata for the time being. Yup, one at a time aint no way to do it that's for sure. That is unless it's special circumstances like a kid with challenges most don't face.

    It's frustrating, sure but unless you can comply with the cdc guidelines to help reduce the spread of a novel virus not much can be done to bring back your classes. My wife teaches dog owners how to teach their dogs and right now she's not allowed to teach at all. Not even a one on one.
    John 3:16

  26. #956
    Flashaholic* RedLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Hooked,

    I hear you, man! My business is covering events and getting photos of people by themselves, and in groups of 2 to 6, any more than six does not work. Who the hell is going to want to pose in a group of people for a photo now?

    For the time being, I am shut down. I do not have to worry about money, and will just have to wait until events come back. And they will, hopefully that Goddamm Coachella will dissolve into nothing, however, things will come back. You will get to teach your classes, and I will get to shoot photos of people again...we just have to wait it out.

    In the meal time, hope all is well.

    Best,

    RL
    Check my Web Site: www.Redwayphoto.com

  27. #957

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by RedLED View Post

    Who the hell is going to want to pose in a group of people for a photo now?
    RL
    My governor……


    Oops.
    2 days before saying we have to wear masks in public businesses


    He said he forgot his mask in the car.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 05-29-2020 at 08:08 PM.
    John 3:16

  28. #958
    Flashaholic* RedLED's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    He forgot his mask in the car...a likely story!
    Check my Web Site: www.Redwayphoto.com

  29. #959
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I see Northam has good taste in sunglasses

    ..and wonder what his other hand is doing while taking this selfie

  30. #960

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Word on the street KG is when his wife saw that pic he's slept on the sofa since then.

    Mask rule began in my state yesterday. Word last evening was about 50/50 compliance. Mrs. Fixer at her work said she pulled hers down over her chin to get some fresh air and a masked customer approached and said "good for you" and pulled hers down too.
    John 3:16

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