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Thread: Coronavirus - II

  1. #301

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Regarding wearing masks for long periods, it just gets old after a while. They restrict breathing. Until you get used to wearing one it just feels unnatural. It becomes uncomfortable after a while. Without a proper exhaust vent we are possibly taking in a mixture of fresh air and our exhaust at the same time. It's my understanding why true N95's have a one way exhaust port.

    I just left a facility where everybody was wearing a mask except the greeter. They check your temperature before you enter and once in the door the lady who points you left, right or straight did not even have one draped down. I'm typing this in a parking lot where even folks like me waiting outside are social distancing our vehicles in every other parking spot.

    So how do we begin to continue life while taking on the risk of catching a novel virus? Too much fear will drown us. Too much relaxing right now will also be a killer of some. My view is to continue to promote responsible behavior by example and we'll be ok.
    John 3:16

  2. #302
    *Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by KITROBASKIN View Post
    So the answer is give up caring? It doesn't have to be that way.
    Nope. My point is that defecit hawks might ought to have had their hackles up far earlier in the game during the good times when such activity was less beneficial rather than now when it can greatly reduce the duration of a downturn at less overall cost to the economy. Also fixating on a potential last straw ignores prior contributory negligence that is just as complicit - much of it moreso.
    Last edited by idleprocess; 05-06-2020 at 08:59 AM.
    I apologize that this letter is so long; I did not have time to write a short letter

  3. #303
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I love the syntax of your sentences @idleprocess. In a world of 140 character tweet style sentences, complex sentence structure is a pleasure to read.

  4. #304
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by idleprocess View Post
    Also fixating on a potential last straw ignores prior contributory negligence that is just as complicit - much of it moreso.
    Are you talking about negligence in tending the federal budget and debt? Or negligence in preparing for a pandemic? Can you elaborate?
    Last edited by lion504; 05-06-2020 at 09:41 AM.
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  5. #305
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    The second thread, wow. Missed a lot of posts but skimming through I noticed masks with exhaust vents mentioned. They don't protect others from your exhalation which kind of negates the point of the mask.

  6. #306
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I don't think it's the exhaled carbon dioxide experts are worried about

    They don't want the uninfected caught in path of flying loogie droplets such as when sneezing or coughing

  7. #307
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Correct however it's not just coughs/sneezes. Your exhaust can carry the virus too hence the ported masks negating their purpose.

    Not sure the source but my building has posted notices in the elevator that compare potential infection probability between two individuals, one with covid19 and the other without. The former without mask the latter with and the chance of transmission is still 70%. Reverse it and it's 10%. Both using a mask 2%.

  8. #308
    *Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by lion504 View Post
    Are you talking about negligence in tending the federal budget and debt? Or negligence in preparing for a pandemic? Can you elaborate?
    This is in the context of the federal budget - deficit spending has been the norm for some 60+ years for a variety of reasons of varying degrees of urgency; my argument is that considerably little of it was necessary. Had we better matched expenditures to revenues we'd be carrying less debt and the government would have fewer constraints on stimulating the economy during a downturn.

    Insofar as this round of debt being a last straw, it's weird to focus on this specific spending just because it is the most recent. You can find economists that oppose government deficits on ideological grounds but I expect precious few will argue that the practical impact of borrowing to stimulate the economy costs more - or is even comparable - to the costs of doing nothing as a recession wreaks havoc on the economy.

    I for one do not look forward to the shorter-term reckoning that's coming when restrictions on foreclosures, evictions, and collections are lifted in the coming months - I expect that some entities will push forward, ruin lives who through no fault of their own could not pay, then discover there aren't many standing in line behind the collectees to mortgage, rent, buy/subscribe.
    I apologize that this letter is so long; I did not have time to write a short letter

  9. #309
    *Flashaholic* idleprocess's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by P_A_S_1 View Post
    The second thread, wow. Missed a lot of posts but skimming through I noticed masks with exhaust vents mentioned. They don't protect others from your exhalation which kind of negates the point of the mask.
    Ah, but your breath has to escape somehow and much of that is not going to be through the filter medium. As evidence I submit the problem of glasses fogging with common dust masks: positive pressure encourages air to seek easier means of egress than going out through the filter medium thus much of each exhalation escapes around the periphery - but does so in directions orthogonal to the direction one is facing, losing much velocity along the way. While exhaust valves do not diffuse the output so much as the perimeter of a simple mask, they still redirect the output and most designs I've seen also direct the breath downward.

    Folks that wear eyeglasses are a large slice of the population; addressing the problem of glasses fogging through use of a better-designed mask makes wearing a mask more likely with less adjustment while being worn.
    I apologize that this letter is so long; I did not have time to write a short letter

  10. #310
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    P A S 1 what floor are you on.. if you can physically use the stairwell, and wearing backpack to carry things, that is much safer than a elevator. Healthier too!

  11. #311
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    My view is to continue to promote responsible behavior by example and we'll be ok.

    Yep, my view to, just get on with it. Distance, PPE hopefully if available to the person, use it. Its easier IMHO to just get on with it, yes inconvenient, uncomfortable at times( 12hr shift with safety glasses, mask, washing hands all the time, gloves all adds up to = not much fun. I wear in work to protect others, i wear one when i go into a shop or supermarket.......to protect others. All i need is everyone else to do the same!

    A chap actually called tom jones came back to work over a week back(not unusual!....yep he may get that a lot). He had 4 weeks off in total, his wife had it, then him. Put him on his a55 for a week, not as bad as his wife . Its real, its getting closer to home.

    UK looking soon to relax some measures, i get the opening some businesses etc. But defo need the distancing, PPE for the general public to be able to get hold of. After all this effort by 95% of the UK population, would be a shame to undo it all in a few days. Thats all it will take, back to square 1!

    As more strains get identified, now a strain/s in europe and US which now re-infect!
    https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...nd-us-11983554

    Stay safe CPF

  12. #312
    Flashaholic* P_A_S_1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Lower floor so I walk the stairs but so do many, it's a building of over 500 apartments. I actually avoid the elevator for other reasons as it's become contentious and a source of problems between residents.

  13. #313
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Yeah i would think different mindsets using stairs
    Good you're near street level, and fresher outdoor air

  14. #314
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by P_A_S_1 View Post
    Not sure the source but my building has posted notices in the elevator that compare potential infection probability between two individuals, one with covid19 and the other without. The former without mask the latter with and the chance of transmission is still 70%. Reverse it and it's 10%. Both using a mask 2%.
    I wonder what mask type was used for testing (cloth, paper or N95)?

  15. #315

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by P_A_S_1 View Post
    Correct however it's not just coughs/sneezes. Your exhaust can carry the virus too hence the ported masks negating their purpose.

    Not sure the source but my building has posted notices in the elevator that compare potential infection probability between two individuals, one with covid19 and the other without. The former without mask the latter with and the chance of transmission is still 70%. Reverse it and it's 10%. Both using a mask 2%.
    Some places ban masks with exhaust valves
    https://www.fastcompany.com/90496717...s-banning-them

    Makes sense.
    I was just responding to a comment about people taking them off during meetings etc.

    I keep one on me but only deploy it when I feel the need such as being within 10' of people indoors. I have a pair of masks that don't let light through that have a slice of hepa filter between two layers of cotton cloth. A third one is the inexpensive coffee filter looking type for places like I went to earlier today where have to have a mask to get inside. I treated my glasses with toothpaste several days ago to act as an anti fog. Works pretty good until you clean the lenses. So it has to be reapplied every couple of days. Rain X anti fog works well too.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 05-06-2020 at 12:39 PM.
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  16. #316
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by scout24 View Post
    I'll throw this out there... SH- One of your big sticking points seems to be "A National Response." Put your President hat on for a minute and tell me what YOU would do, how you would pay for it, and how you'd enforce it in the United States.
    Leave the NSC pandemic unit intact in 2018, heed the warnings present in Presidential briefings in January and openly share that information, declare National Lockdown as daily new cases enter triple digits in early March, National Lockdown includes mandatory enforcement of all CDC guidelines, begin national coordination of emergency supplies such as ventilators/PPE/tests, advocate national production drive of ventilators/PPE/tests and recruitment campaign for healthcare workers.

    Had intervention been this early and uniformly applied, it would have severely slowed the curve where it was left unchecked by states unsure of what to do or not interested in participating. This would most likely have resulted in a flattened curve by the end of April - that would mean tens of thousands fewer deaths and we would already be in the return-to-work phase.

    The timing for this scenario follows other countries that reacted early and nationally, this is not a pie-in-the-sky or monday-morning-quarterback synopsis - I sincerely believe that this is what most any other president in American history would have done purely reflexively as part of the means given to them, regardless of party or belief system.

  17. #317
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    Some places ban masks with exhaust valves
    https://www.fastcompany.com/90496717...s-banning-them

    ..... I treated my glasses with toothpaste several days ago to act as an anti fog. Works pretty good until you clean the lenses. So it has to be reapplied every couple of days. Rain X anti fog works well too.

    I treat my swimming goggles with JJ baby shampoo as an anti fog. Works and is cheap.

  18. #318

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I'll try that PAS1 as I have some for when the grandson visits.

    Hey Star
    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-f...-idUSKBN21C32M
    Read this.
    It was streamlined not disbanded.

    Oh and the corona task force has not been disbanded, it has pivoted towards post corona shock wave and will be focused on recovery.

    The national stockpile was practically depleted after the swine flu out break. Many companies moved production of medical devices over seas due to taxes placed on production of said devices under the Affordable Care Act. That and the bulk of remaining supplies were overseas where they were ready for deployment to the armed services in combat zones at a moments notice. Operation air bridge brought humongous amounts of PPE back in a matter of days and were doled out to states as they requested it.

    The governors were put in charge of their own situation so the a centralized one size fits all approach would instead be tailored to the needs of said states. As per this crazy old fashioned thing called the Constitution dictates. A public/privat partnership was created early on so instead of tests being done with 15 year old reagents that gave about 50% incorrect results after a probe was shoved down your nose until you gag only to have a 50/50 chance of being correct the private industry (ie greedy capitalists) created newer, better tests in a matter of a couple of weeks. Ones that can be done without the torture.

    It was actually impressive how the American government banded together and got a lot done in a short time. Federal, State and Local. New York was a disaster waiting to happen. Millions stuffed into subways each day was a recipe for a massive outbreak. In early March their health director was still saying "pfft, don't sweat it". Talk about slow to act.

    The army corp of engineers built tens of thousands of portable hospital rooms with electricity and oxygen in a matter of days. Massive numbers of national guard troops relieved over worked doctors and nurses while delivering millions upon millions of pieces of personal protective equipment to hardest hit areas. Often before the governor asked them to because the task force was on top of the numbers. It was a very large scale operation that the news media chose to ignore because they chose to harp on the negatives. Shame on them. Americans from coast to coast had an awesome operation that no other country on planet earth could even dream of much less execute in a short time span hidden from them by a so-called free press bent on focusing what is wrong about the nation that gives them the very power to be real journalists.

    My state is a perfect example of why a centralized approach is not the way to go. If you want to see the daily counts, hmmm sorry the site's down again today. Our tests came from China, and are all being checked at 2 labs statewide, both run by the state while private labs lay people off. About 10% of our lab capacity is being used. The tests are those kind you shove up your nose until you gag and it takes up to 5 days to find out if you are positive. "But it's free" says the health director of my state. Hmmm free torture? I'll pass.

    The public, private, military, federal, state and local government process probably saved way more lives than some bearucratic one size fits all centralized approach would have. But it takes eyes willing to see and ears willing to hear to understand that.
    Last edited by bykfixer; 05-06-2020 at 03:07 PM.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II


  20. #320
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by idleprocess View Post
    Nope. My point is that defecit hawks might ought to have had their hackles up far earlier in the game during the good times when such activity was less beneficial rather than now when it can greatly reduce the duration of a downturn at less overall cost to the economy. Also fixating on a potential last straw ignores prior contributory negligence that is just as complicit - much of it moreso.
    Still sounds like complaining about the past, and putting down someone else's complaint that they have.

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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by StarHalo View Post
    Leave the NSC pandemic unit intact in 2018, heed the warnings present in Presidential briefings in January and openly share that information, declare National Lockdown as daily new cases enter triple digits in early March, National Lockdown includes mandatory enforcement of all CDC guidelines, begin national coordination of emergency supplies such as ventilators/PPE/tests, advocate national production drive of ventilators/PPE/tests and recruitment campaign for healthcare workers.

    Had intervention been this early and uniformly applied, it would have severely slowed the curve where it was left unchecked by states unsure of what to do or not interested in participating. This would most likely have resulted in a flattened curve by the end of April - that would mean tens of thousands fewer deaths and we would already be in the return-to-work phase.

    The timing for this scenario follows other countries that reacted early and nationally, this is not a pie-in-the-sky or monday-morning-quarterback synopsis - I sincerely believe that this is what most any other president in American history would have done purely reflexively as part of the means given to them, regardless of party or belief system.
    Pay for it and enforce it, please? And ask the senior representative from your state to not be inviting people to "come to Chinatown" in her district almost a month after she accused the President of being racist for putting a travel ban in place? Dr. Fauci has been with the CDC since I was born, has advised multiple presidents. Dr Birx was an Obama appointee. I'd say the current administration has listened to the advice of decades of bipartisan experience in the room...

    And let's try moving forward, not second guessing and playing monday morning quarterback. Most of your post is telling me what you would have done AFTER surveying damage from the hurricane.I asked what would you do, not re-hash what would you have done...

    Please also remember, doing anything by national decree requires cooperation at both the state and inside-the- beltway level this being the United States and all. Something the current administration has been a bit short on since day one.
    Last edited by scout24; 05-06-2020 at 03:56 PM.
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by P_A_S_1 View Post
    Correct however it's not just coughs/sneezes. Your exhaust can carry the virus too hence the ported masks negating their purpose.

    Not sure the source but my building has posted notices in the elevator that compare potential infection probability between two individuals, one with covid19 and the other without. The former without mask the latter with and the chance of transmission is still 70%. Reverse it and it's 10%. Both using a mask 2%.
    Exhaust will escape from most masks, not just the vented. I notice this everyday when my eyeglasses steam up no matter how tightly I pinch the metal strip over the top of my nose. Your exhale is coming out from somewhere.

  23. #323
    *Flashaholic* StarHalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by bykfixer View Post
    It was actually impressive how the American government banded together and got a lot done in a short time.

    Americans from coast to coast had an awesome operation that no other country on planet earth could even dream of much less execute in a short time span

    The public, private, military, federal, state and local government process probably saved way more lives
    You sound like a very satisfied customer, you should just enjoy your purchase and not worry about the reviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by scout24 View Post
    Pay for it and enforce it, please?

    And let's try moving forward, not second guessing and playing monday morning quarterback. Most of your post is telling me what you would have done AFTER surveying damage from the hurricane.I asked what would you do, not re-hash what would you have done...

    Please also remember, doing anything by national decree requires cooperation
    Part one critiques the plan you asked for, part two says that's not the plan you were asking for, part three says the plan isn't actually possible. You really need to take more time with these response posts, this isn't going well..

  24. #324
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    The plan I asked for was what you would do, not what you would have done. Re-read my post. I asked for you to explain how you would pay for and enforce it. You provided nothing. Part three reminds you where you live, and politely reminds you doing things by decree requires cooperation. You should perhaps read twice before responding, providing answers to the questions asked rather than push an agenda...
    Last edited by scout24; 05-06-2020 at 04:30 PM.
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  25. #325
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I'll try to go point-by-point from your plan for clarity.

    1. Heed warnings in January? Like instituting a travel ban to be called racist and ridiculed? See: Pelosi/Chinatown a month later.

    2. National lockdown? Again, would need support from Gov's and congress. Good luck.

    3. National coordination of supplies? You can't get Cuomo or DiBlasio to tell anyone what they have. I'm sure you would have had better luck.

    4. Advocate production drive? Like the Defense Production Act that was enacted?

    5. Recruitment campaign? Like letting retired Dr's and Nurses whose credentials were only good in their state travel to other states to help out? Reach out to recently retired military with pertinent MOS's and ask them to come back? Like was done?

    Do I have your plan pretty much covered, as was done in Washington since the beginning?
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  26. #326
    *Flashaholic* StarHalo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    "No StarHalo, I meant national response as in what a national response would be after the states-only response. You may have given a comprehensive non-partisan answer, but you provided nothing and it pushed an agenda."

  27. #327
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    Default Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by LGT View Post
    Exhaust will escape from most masks, not just the vented. I notice this everyday when my eyeglasses steam up no matter how tightly I pinch the metal strip over the top of my nose. Your exhale is coming out from somewhere.
    To some degree yes, hard to get a good seal without a gasket and even then proper fit is important. I had a few n95 with gaskets, they were good.

    Imo non vented come much closer to the goal then vented even with the leakage.
    Last edited by P_A_S_1; 05-06-2020 at 04:53 PM.

  28. #328
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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Quote Originally Posted by StarHalo View Post
    "No StarHalo, I meant national response as in what a national response would be after the states-only response. You may have given a comprehensive non-partisan answer, but you provided nothing and it pushed an agenda."
    Your first sentence is nonsensical, and your comprehensive non-partisan plan mirrors what has already been done, as was broken down point by point... Your agenda seems to be "this is what I would have done, even though it's already been done. And it would have worked better if I did it."

    I asked what you would do, how you would pay for it, and how you would enforce it. You answerd what you would have done, and ignored the other two questions. Seems pretty clear.. And I'm comfortable calling your last paragraph of your inital response to me today "pushing an agenda."
    Last edited by scout24; 05-06-2020 at 05:27 PM.
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  29. #329

    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    I'm pretty proud of how America handled the corona crisis Star. Was it perfect? No far from it.

    Actually I stopped caring what the mass media said when I saw American pissed off at American when Vietnam vets came home. I was about 7 years old and was shocked to see little kids throwing rocks at soldiers. Yup. It happened thanks to a press that put out stories of attrocities being perpertrated by American soldiers based on stories told to them my enemy combatants. The press made up lie after lie about what was going on each evening on the. 6:30 news.

    As a young adult American was pissed off at American during what was called "the Rodney King" situation.

    Now in the new millenium that same mass media is trying to keep American pissed off at American. Shamefully on us, millions gobble up the nonsense and keyboard warriors repeat it day after day.

    What's more shameful is the real facts can be found in less time than it took me to write this post, if one is even interested.
    John 3:16

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    Default Re: Coronavirus - II

    Amen Byk!!

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